[bidn]

After a few more days of listening, I've found the Clears to be veiled when it comes to classical string instruments like the violin and cello. I'm a violinist myself who used to play in youth orchestras, so I guess I have higher standards for how stringed instruments should sound. Similar results from MacBook Pro and iPhone X.

I suppose Utopia would be better for classical? Would an amp matter?

Still great headphones though.

Hi krypticide,

While Focal's TOTL headphones can be driven and enjoyed from a phone or from a tablet, this is an additional asset (which is not possessed by all headphones), not the way they are meant to be used. TOTL headphones are designed to be driven by devices such as:
- an audiophile (for music lovers) or a professional (for studio, audio engineers) DAC with its integrated internal amp and with its a volume control (when available)
- for those headphones which can be easily driven, an audiophile DAP = portable Digital Audio Player
- an audiophile or a professional chain constituting in : [internal DAC of DAC-amp --> internal amp of the DAC-amp set to outputting a "line level" standardized voltage] --> XLR or RCA cables --> [external headphone amp with its volume control].
TOTL headphones can't be expected to unleash their full potential from a phone or from a tablet (though some phones by LG are much better than all the rest), and also not from the audio output of the motherboard of a computer.

To give an example : even most audiophile and professional devices can't exploit the full capabilities of the Utopia, given that the Utopia driven directly from the Chord Dave DAC-amp sounds so much better than the rest re. imaging, resolution, noise floor, etc., this is my experience when trying this at my dealer, but as far as I read all who tried this combo would agree. So if most audiophile gear can't fully unleash the potential of the Utopia (and maybe even the Dave doesn't, maybe we will notice this when a Dave 2 will be produced), imagine how much less a phone or a tablet are apt at doing this with the Utopia or with the Clear and how much such headphones may be then under-performing and how much of their goodies you may be missing with your phone or your tablet.

If there is an audiophile headphone dealer not too far from you, you could try out there your tracks with a Clear and some devices of the dealer.

If you don't have such an opportunity and if money is short, maybe you could try to go for a cheaper DAC-amp from the Chinese company Topping, I saw on a site where many comparative measurements are performed that the Topping DX7s would obtain better measurements than the Chord Mojo (and maybe even also than Hugo 2?), yet the DX7s would be quite cheaper than the Mojo (I personally have never heard a Topping device).

If that doesn't help, then you could try to buy a Utopia: I find my Utopia to be much more resolving, faster, cleaner, etc. than my Clear, when driving them with a highly resolving and clean DAC-amp.
I agree with the other head-fiers that the HD 800(s) is quite difficult to drive properly and that it can be quite complicated and expensive to find a proper amp (the total cost of [DAC-amp --> expensive cables --> appropriate external amp --> properly driven HD 800(s)] could be at least as expensive as that of [DAC-amp --> Utopia]). Also for me personally with a highly resolving and clean DAC-amp I find that my Utopia are quite superior to my HD 800, not only more detailed, with better imaging, dynamics, etc., but also at the same time even much more musical, I would say maybe a few leagues above, but not everyone shares this opinion.

Hoping that you will find a solution to your issue,
bidn

 

[ipaddy]

After further consideration, how does this lineup sound (so to speak) to you?

AK70 Mark II to FiiO Q5 to Clear?

Improved sound?

 

[djj65]

I have taken a similar approach. I have an AK300 in a PEM-13 cradle that I input into multiple amps, Little Dot MKVI+, or my La Figaro 339, or my Q5 that I recently sold. Having a solid powerful amp with clean power will always bring the best out of any set of headphones, for me either the Clear or the LCD2C.

 

[FrostyP]

Anyone have experience pairing the Clear with the RME ADI-2 DAC (or whatever the most recent revision is the names confuse me haha)? It's my personal endgame goal for my desk setup and I'm wondering what opinions people have

 

[makne]

Anyone have experience pairing the Clear with the RME ADI-2 DAC (or whatever the most recent revision is the names confuse me haha)? It's my personal endgame goal for my desk setup and I'm wondering what opinions people have

there was one guy on here that really didn't like it. It does measure well though

 

[Skyyyeman]

If going from an underpowered amp to adequately powered, I agree. I recognize that some amps, especially tube amps, can also color the sound in a way that some people like the way they work with particular headphones. But if we're talking about adequately powered solid state amps without quirky designs, my impression is that all sound essentially the same, and only linearly amplify, so there's 'scaling' effect.

We need to always bear in mind that our perceptions of these things can be highly influenced by expectations; a lot of research demonstrates it, and I've found it in my own personal experience too. Whenever this topic comes up, I refer people to the book "Subliminal" by Leonard Mlodinow as a good general read on this topic.

Sorry, all solid state amps do not "sound essentially the same." And the differences between solid state amps need not have anything to do with power amounts or expectation bias. Differences are often readily discernible and have been noted by listeners hundreds and thousands of times on this and other online sites and in audiophile mags the world over and in the amateur and pro audio world. In fact, differences between amps is one of the least controversial issues in all of audio land. The same holds true whether for headphone amps or large amps used in full sized audio systems. If it's your impression that there are no differences then I would respectfully suggest that additional exposure would be useful. If you were nearby I would be happy to show you and I am confident you would hear the difference.

I don't think anyone would say that a $50,000 amp by Pass Labs sounds the same as a $199 amp from ___________(fill in the blank.)

 

[makne]

Sorry, my message was poorly worded. I meant two things:

1) Would Utopia improve the classical music listening experience? Seems like the answer is yes. But I don't think I can justify the price difference plus an external amp seems to be an absolute must.
2) Would an amp change the sound signature of Clear such that it would improve the classical listening experience? Seems like the overall signature wouldn't change, but some say the dynamics/soundstage/clarity may be improved?

Still trying to figure out if I need to convince my wife about spending another $500 on the Chord Mojo (vs. MacBook Pro or iPhone X currently).

If anything, the Mojo will make the Clear sound slightly warmer, which is not what you are looking for... Yeah dynamics, soundstage, resolve will be improved, but it seems like you are looking for a change in tuning.
The Utopia will give you that change in tuning, and also superior separation, imaging, precision... But the soundstage is still on the small side, which may not be great with classical.

The HD800 or HD800S is great with classical, and has a leaner sound that I think you may enjoy. They are significantly harder to drive than the Clear though, and a good amp is pretty much mandatory here. When it comes to the Utopia, it is relatively easy to drive in terms of impedance and sensitivity, but the Utopia is also known for being vey resolving and "honest" about upstream components...

 

[Phronesis]

Sorry, all solid state amps do not "sound essentially the same." And the differences between solid state amps need not have anything to do with power amounts or expectation bias. Differences are often readily discernible and have been noted by listeners hundreds and thousands of times on this and other online sites and in audiophile mags the world over and in the amateur and pro audio world. In fact, differences between amps is one of the least controversial issues in all of audio land. The same holds true whether for headphone amps or large amps used in full sized audio systems. If it's your impression that there are no differences then I would respectfully suggest that additional exposure would be useful. If you were nearby I would be happy to show you and I am confident you would hear the difference.

I don't think anyone would say that a $50,000 amp by Pass Labs sounds the same as a $199 amp from ___________(fill in the blank.)

For amps, I only trust reports of significant differences if based on unsighted comparisons with good controls. Otherwise, the effects of expectations can be very powerful and it's very easy to misperceive things. I've personally experienced both sides of this, and it was very eye opening.

For headphones, no doubt that the differences can be quite large.

 

[Anaz]

Anyone have experience pairing the Clear with the RME ADI-2 DAC (or whatever the most recent revision is the names confuse me haha)? It's my personal endgame goal for my desk setup and I'm wondering what opinions people have

The Clear pairs well with an RME ADI-2 DAC - the amp section is a little too neutral for my taste and I add +1 dB treble and +0.5 dB bass using the ADI-2’s “loudness” setting when using the built-in amp (or output to a V200 amp which is slightly warmer than the built-in amp).

 

[Anaz]

For amps, I only trust reports of significant differences if based on unsighted comparisons with good controls. Otherwise, the effects of expectations can be very powerful and it's very easy to misperceive things. I've personally experienced both sides of this, and it was very eye opening.

For headphones, no doubt that the differences can be quite large.

I can categorically hear a difference between the [edit] mid-fi* [/edit] solid state amps that I own and am familiar with - I am assuming no bias is involved on my part because I have no motivation towards one conclusion or another.

Edit:
* Violectric V200, Meier Audio Corda Jazz ff, Arcam rHead.

 

[makne]

Sorry, my message was poorly worded. I meant two things:

1) Would Utopia improve the classical music listening experience? Seems like the answer is yes. But I don't think I can justify the price difference plus an external amp seems to be an absolute must.
2) Would an amp change the sound signature of Clear such that it would improve the classical listening experience? Seems like the overall signature wouldn't change, but some say the dynamics/soundstage/clarity may be improved?

Still trying to figure out if I need to convince my wife about spending another $500 on the Chord Mojo (vs. MacBook Pro or iPhone X currently).

If anything, the Mojo will make the Clear sound slightly warmer, which is not what you are looking for... Yeah dynamics, soundstage, resolve will be improved, but it seems like you are looking for a change in tuning.
The Utopia will give you that change in tuning, and also superior separation, imaging, precision... But the soundstage is still on the small side, which may not be great with classical.

The HD800 or HD800S is great with classical, and has a leaner sound that I think you may enjoy. They are significantly harder to drive than the Clear though, and a good amp is pretty much mandatory here. When it comes to the Utopia, it is relatively easy to drive in terms of impedance and sensitivity, but the Utopia is also known for being vey resolving and "honest" about upstream components...

 

[Phronesis]

I can categorically hear a difference between the [edit] mid-fi* [/edit] solid state amps that I own and am familiar with - I am assuming no bias is involved on my part because I have no motivation towards one conclusion or another.

Edit:
* Violectric V200, Meier Audio Corda Jazz ff, Arcam rHead.

I heard a significant difference between the Mojo and Hugo 2 for months, with various headphones, and the difference was along the lines of what everyone else reports. Which is what one might expect given the 5x price difference, Hugo 2 being a visibly larger unit with some technology differences, etc. I saw no point in doing more controlled comparison because the difference between them was so obvious and consistent.

But I decided to do more controlled comparison just to put a bow on it and prove the obvious. When I did a sighted (not unsighted) comparison with quick switching and matching volumes and music segments, the differences I previously heard pretty much disappeared. Tonal balance, stage, instrument separation, dynamic range, etc. all sounded the same. It's possible that the comparison protocol obscured differences which are more apparent in normal extended listening, but I'm convinced that any differences that are really there are much smaller than I previously perceived.

But no reason for anyone to take my word for it, best that people do the comparisons themselves. It takes some effort, but people can save a lot of money by getting a handle on how much difference each piece of gear in the signal chain makes.

 

[Regnum]

are any of the dekoni pads good with the clear?

 

[canali]

i'm going to have a listen to these tomorrow, alongside the lcdx2.

i just sold my fostex ebony thx00..want something more refined sounding
and is versatile with many genres.
too bad my local retailer doesn't carry the zmf auteur too (i know only direct sales)
as i've heard plenty good things on them.
the massdrop HFM edition xx also interests me.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-hifiman-edition-xx-headphones/talk/2253269

problem is: i only have my chord mojo...so i know i'll have to update to a better separate dac/amp
in a few months too: prob looking at 3k there./used market.

so has anyone here compared the sq of zmf auteur, lcd2c and focal clear?

 

[gLer]

My 0.02.

I think this is all blown way out of proportion. If you go back through this thread, @Phronesis made his comment about amp differences based on his personal experience with the Mojo and Hugo 2. All I’ll say about that is that it’s a small sample of two amps, and in fact he’s really comparing two amp/dacs from the same manufacturer. That he’s extrapolating this sample to a general comment about amps (and strangely not dacs) is his opinion, which is clearly not rooted in any sort of extensive statistical fact (other than his sample of 2, his own methods and his own hearing).

Based on this, a few bullet points so I don’t waffle more than I already have:

1. This is a gear forum for enthusiasts of varying experience, interests, hobbies, means, cultures and geographies, each of whom has an opinion.

2. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. It’s up to the rest of us to interrogate that opinion, agree or dispute it, or simply ignore it. This isn’t a competition, it’s a knowledge/opinion/experience sharing forum.

3. If there’s one thing I’ve learned in my relatively short time in this hobby (but over my many years of being an enthusiast on various matters and forums) is that the only thing you can know to be true is your own experience.

4. Since were talking head-fi and audio, your experience is uniquely your own. You will hear the same gear differently to how others hear it. You may end up describing it similarly, but more than likely not.

5. Taking other opinions with a grain of salt is a law to live by. Use others’ experiences as a guide, but do yourself a favour and listen for yourself. Don’t make the mistake of taking others’ opinions as facts.

6. And finally, I’d personally much rather have the opinion of someone with vast experience in the industry (like @TSAVJason) than someone whom I know nothing about or who has very limited exposure to the gear I’m interested in. Given this is a ‘general discussion’ about differences between amps (and dacs, what about dacs?), someone with firsthand experience of dozens of amps and dacs should surely be better placed to comment than most of us? Unfortunately this forum tends to favour certain personalities, so if a Zach Merbach or Dan Clarke were to offer their opinions here (being the rightfully popular guys that they are), I’d wager many of those slating Jason would be more supportive of them.

So TL;DR - and to get this all back on topic, anecdotal EVIDENCE suggests people hear the Clear differently with different sources. Anecdotal evidence suggests these differences are not price related. Opinions differ on how large these differences are. We all hear differently so reaching a consensus is impossible - you’ll just have to listen for yourself.

And in closing, anyone on these forums has as much right as anyone else to voice an opinion, just as anyone has a right to use it or ignore it. What we should all be doing is agree to respect other opinions, correct FACTUAL inaccuracies, and try to get along. After all this should all just be fun, right?