Yeah of course, I mean other big companies like Audeze and Hifiman have had similar issues, but at this price point one should think that it is avoidable. Of course a 100% success rate is probably impossible to achieve, but the least they can do is to aknowledge and try to improve on these issues, as well as being very cooperative in customer support.
Shouldn’t we also let BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Ferrari, Aston Martin, Bugatti, McClaren and Lamborghini all know that at there prices they have to be able to avoid any parts failures?
There is no company in the world that manufacturers speakers or electronics that can guarantee no parts failures.
Shouldn’t we also let BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Ferrari, Aston Martin, Bugatti, McClaren and Lamborghini all know that at there prices they have to be able to avoid any parts failures?
There is no company in the world that manufacturers speakers or electronics that can guarantee no parts failures.
It comes down to the failure rate. But IMO the car analogy isn't good in this respect, since cars are way more complex than headphones, and cars have a more diverse range of conditions in which they need to perform.
It comes down to the failure rate. But IMO the car analogy isn't good in this respect, since cars are way more complex than headphones, and cars have a more diverse range of conditions in which they need to perform.
Yup I got that from your post and all those companies I just named have about the same failure rate. I should have added Maserati which has a higher failure rate.
Shouldn’t we also let BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Ferrari, Aston Martin, Bugatti, McClaren and Lamborghini all know that at there prices they have to be able to avoid any parts failures?
There is no company in the world that manufacturers speakers or electronics that can guarantee no parts failures.
Nobody said manufacturers should guarantee zero parts failures. I only said, a driver failure is more embarrassing for companies who sell expensive headphones. I know very well about Audeze and HifiMan driver issues, however those are smaller and younger companies than Focal.
I have been following the AQ NightHawk thread for years, and never heard of a driver failure. Nor from Sennheiser flagships. The Clear hasn't been out for too long and I already know about 3 driver failures. It is probably well within the acceptable limit, however still surprised me. I was sharing my personal experience, not saying anything bad about Focal in general. I love how the Clear sounds.
Nobody said manufacturers should guarantee zero parts failures. I only said, a driver failure is more embarrassing for companies who sell expensive headphones. I know very well about Audeze and HifiMan driver issues, however those are smaller and younger companies than Focal.
I have been following the AQ NightHawk thread for years, and never heard of a driver failure. Nor from Sennheiser flagships. The Clear hasn't been out for too long and I already know about 3 driver failures. It is probably well within the acceptable limit, however still surprised me. I was sharing my personal experience, not saying anything bad about Focal in general. I love how the Clear sounds.
I think it’s common place to expect that what can go wrong will go wrong at some point in the life of a product. I’ve had defects in every brand other than one and likeky the one is only because we haven’t sold a high volume of them. Some of the defects you are speaking of are not driver failures. More often then not with Focal anyway it’s a solder point that fails. I can see how people think it’s a driver failure just because that side would stop working.
Any manufacturer running under 3% is a good ratio. I can name brands that run up to as much as 35% failures.
As consumers, it is our responsibility to hold manufacturers accountable for failures and problems, because if we don't, then they get lazy and problems remain unresolved, and overall quality drops. At the same time, if we want to be constructive about it and actually get something done, then we need to be professional about it and not spread misinformation, hate, and meaningless panic.
We're never going to get a meaningful picture of the rate of driver failures because people who experience failures are far more likely to come and post than those who don't, so we'll need actual manufacturer or retailer stats on failure rates. But if driver failures ARE happening, then we need to let people know, which it seems like we're doing. Though to be fair, considering what passes for amps these days, the driver failures don't always have to be the fault of the headphones... but that's another story.
The automotive analogy is meaningless because people DO hold auto manufacturers to a higher standard. And when catastrophic failures occur, like the whole Takata disaster, heads roll. When failures are less catastrophic but nevertheless cost consumers money, resale values plummet. In any case, you don't leave your headphones outside for 7 years or fill them with exploding chemicals, so the point is moot.
though considering some of the crap I've bought over the years, maybe people do?
As consumers, it is our responsibility to hold manufacturers accountable for failures and problems, because if we don't, then they get lazy and problems remain unresolved, and overall quality drops. At the same time, if we want to be constructive about it and actually get something done, then we need to be professional about it and not spread misinformation, hate, and meaningless panic.
We're never going to get a meaningful picture of the rate of driver failures because people who experience failures are far more likely to come and post than those who don't, so we'll need actual manufacturer or retailer stats on failure rates. But if driver failures ARE happening, then we need to let people know, which it seems like we're doing. Though to be fair, considering what passes for amps these days, the driver failures don't always have to be the fault of the headphones... but that's another story.
The automotive analogy is meaningless because people DO hold auto manufacturers to a higher standard. And when catastrophic failures occur, like the whole Takata disaster, heads roll. When failures are less catastrophic but nevertheless cost consumers money, resale values plummet. In any case, you don't leave your headphones outside for 7 years or fill them with exploding chemicals, so the point is moot.
though considering some of the crap I've bought over the years, maybe people do?
Failures happen and they happen with all brands. If the manufacturer steps up to take care of those problems as they arise and they do it timely. I’d say their customer service works and sorry for the inconvenience just like the car dealer would tell you. Just like the car dealer might tell you, the damage or failure can be caused by incorrect use. Just like the car dealer they are taking care of the customer because that’s the chain of command.
I’m sure most manufacturers would prefer there were no failures but it does happen. If Focal were to be embarrassed about anything it would have been at the launch when several hand made units failed but not so much from driver failure, from solder failure. Either way it’s been addressed and we seldom see Focal failures at this point.
Addendum: why would anyone own a premium vehicle or anything premium item and leave it outside for any extended time especially 7 years? I have a number of cars and when not being used they live in a cozy garage. I will admit I am in California so outside is likely more paint oxidation than anything else. Rust and salt damage don’t happen here.
A little anecdote about car warranties. I have a fairly expensive sports car, and many owners of the car stay in touch via a forum. Several of us reported engine failures, and those engines were replaced under warranty. But we grew concerned about what happens when the warranty runs out, so an owners group was formed, a letter of concern was sent to the manufacturer, and the manufacturer agreed to meet with reps of the owner's group. The manufacturer surprised us by sending one of their top people to the meeting, explaining their diagnosis of the failure cause in detail, extending the engine warranty to 10 years/120K miles, and covering the travel costs for those attended the meeting. It generated a TON of goodwill and loyalty towards the manufacturer. And as it turns out, my engine recently started showing signs of distress, so it was replaced under warranty.
A little anecdote about car warranties. I have a fairly expensive sports car, and many owners of the car stay in touch via a forum. Several of us reported engine failures, and those engines were replaced under warranty. But we grew concerned about what happens when the warranty runs out, so an owners group was formed, a letter of concern was sent to the manufacturer, and the manufacturer agreed to meet with reps of the owner's group. The manufacturer surprised us by sending one of their top people to the meeting, explaining their diagnosis of the failure cause in detail, extending the engine warranty to 10 years/120K miles, and covering the travel costs for those attended the meeting. It generated a TON of goodwill and loyalty towards the manufacturer. And as it turns out, my engine recently started showing signs of distress, so it was replaced under warranty.
I think most manufacturers make accommodations when needed. I’ve heard of a lot of consumers around the world that had troubles with their distributors/dealers. I’ve also seen Focal extend the warranty service when the consumer bought the unit from non-authorized dealers. They’ve since stopped that practice because they feel enough people have seen the warnings that buying from an unauthorized is taboo if you expect a warranty.
But yes I personally had Ford replace a motor in my Shelby and they did replace that $22k motor under warranty. If you’re cool about it, they step up. If you scream and stamp your feet and repetitively talk poop they are a lot less willing to help if your unit is not under warranty or purchased from a bogus seller.
I just bit the bullet and put down some of my hard earned plastic for a pair of Clears. Should have them by Monday. I'm curious to hear if I will like them with my existing amps, a Valhalla 2 and Aune x7s or if I will want something new. I tried them in two stores, once with a Auralic Tarus MKII which sounded great and once with a McIntosh MHA150 which I didn't care for (I suspect there was something off with the source or setup). I really liked the Auralic, I would be tempted to get one if I could find a lightly used model.
A little anecdote about car warranties. I have a fairly expensive sports car, and many owners of the car stay in touch via a forum. Several of us reported engine failures, and those engines were replaced under warranty. But we grew concerned about what happens when the warranty runs out, so an owners group was formed, a letter of concern was sent to the manufacturer, and the manufacturer agreed to meet with reps of the owner's group. The manufacturer surprised us by sending one of their top people to the meeting, explaining their diagnosis of the failure cause in detail, extending the engine warranty to 10 years/120K miles, and covering the travel costs for those attended the meeting. It generated a TON of goodwill and loyalty towards the manufacturer. And as it turns out, my engine recently started showing signs of distress, so it was replaced under warranty.
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