[393699]

A laptop is nowhere near good enough to get the most out of these headphones. They both require quality gear to get proper dynamics. The techtubers on youtube are all full of crap.

 

[mikecheck95]

A laptop is nowhere near good enough to get the most out of these headphones. They both require quality gear to get proper dynamics. The techtubers on youtube are all full of crap.

I never said that a laptop would get the most out of them. Just that it will get them super loud even with EQ. Point being that it doesn’t really matter (to me) which one requires MORE EQ. If you want a harman bass shelf you’re adding like 3-6 db of EQ anyway (sometimes more). Personally, I’d prefer something that doesn’t require any EQ.

Either way… it seems that most people agree that the Clear doesn’t need EQ. The Clear MG sounds wonky to me without EQ though.

 

[393699]

If you want a perfect sound out of the box from any headphone, it doesn't exist. The Clear is the obvious choice though if you don't want to use any EQ.

 

[mikecheck95]

If you want a perfect sound out of the box from any headphone, it doesn't exist. The Clear is the obvious choice though if you don't want to use any EQ.

This seems to be the consensus and is validated by most graphs. Although, the MG seems to have less of a consistent set of impressions. Personally my impressions line up closest with Crinacle’s (although, he loved the Clear OG so I probably would too). Maybe I should be on the Clear MG thread trying to sort this out haha.

You’ve got to understand that I don’t want to just blind buy (final sale) a headphone especially if I disliked its newer “improved” version which some people say sounds very similar to the original while others say sounds different.

 

[dougms3]

This seems to be the consensus and is validated by most graphs. Although, the MG seems to have less of a consistent set of impressions. Personally my impressions line up closest with Crinacle’s (although, he loved the Clear OG so I probably would too). Maybe I should be on the Clear MG thread trying to sort this out haha.

You’ve got to understand that I don’t want to just blind buy (final sale) a headphone especially if I disliked its newer “improved” version which some people say sounds very similar to the original while others say sounds different.

FR doesn't tell the whole story, it just gives you a basic idea of what it may sound like.

Just keep in mind crinacle is a reviewer and his main goal is to push products and influence people to spend money. Hes very young and specializes in iems and never tests any cables or burn in because he knows this will throw a wrench in his reviews. He doesn't have some kind of superhuman hearing above the ability of anyone else. Granted he's heard alot of variety but that doesn't indicate superior hearing, if that were the case *ahem* Z reviews. He is entertaining but just because he has "the world's largest database of recorded frequency responses" doesn't mean that he can dictate what sounds good or bad for everyone.

Anyway, hearing minute differences in sound is an acquired skill and takes training. Everyone has different tastes, just because crinacle, z reviews, or anyone else says something, doesn't mean it is so, its only their opinion relative to what they prefer.

 

[mikecheck95]

FR doesn't tell the whole story, it just gives you a basic idea of what it may sound like.

Just keep in mind crinacle is a reviewer and his main goal is to push products and influence people to spend money. Hes very young and specializes in iems and never tests any cables or burn in because he knows this will throw a wrench in his reviews. He doesn't have some kind of superhuman hearing above the ability of anyone else. Granted he's heard alot of variety but that doesn't indicate superior hearing, if that were the case *ahem* Z reviews. He is entertaining but just because he has "the world's largest database of recorded frequency responses" doesn't mean that he can dictate what sounds good or bad for everyone.

Anyway, hearing minute differences in sound is an acquired skill and takes training. Everyone has different tastes, just because crinacle, z reviews, or anyone else says something, doesn't mean it is so, its only their opinion relative to what they prefer.

Well Crinacle and myself both heard it independently. Graphs also show elevation in the region generally responsible for this characteristic so, I don't think we're both imagining it. I am fairly confident in my ability to hear changes in FR between headphones. I know that technical performance of drivers can be more difficult to differentiate and may change depending on sources. But I wasn't making claims about the MG's technical performance just it's frequency response. I think the technical performance of the Clear MG trades blows with the LCD-X. LCD-X beating it in soundstage and Clear MG coming out on top when it comes to dynamic punch... you may be able to close the gap by playing around with sources but I didn't bother as I was mostly interested in FR. I actually find the headphone with the most pleasing FR out of the box is the DCA Aeon Noire followed by the Hifiman Sundara and then the HD600. That's right, two mid-fi cans and a closed-back sounded better to me in terms of FR than the Clear MG mind you, my pinna was flexed by the driver so perhaps this had to do with it.

 

[chesebert]

FR doesn't tell the whole story, it just gives you a basic idea of what it may sound like.

Just keep in mind crinacle is a reviewer and his main goal is to push products and influence people to spend money. Hes very young and specializes in iems and never tests any cables or burn in because he knows this will throw a wrench in his reviews. He doesn't have some kind of superhuman hearing above the ability of anyone else. Granted he's heard alot of variety but that doesn't indicate superior hearing, if that were the case *ahem* Z reviews. He is entertaining but just because he has "the world's largest database of recorded frequency responses" doesn't mean that he can dictate what sounds good or bad for everyone.

Anyway, hearing minute differences in sound is an acquired skill and takes training. Everyone has different tastes, just because crinacle, z reviews, or anyone else says something, doesn't mean it is so, its only their opinion relative to what they prefer.

FR (assuming measured correctly) is fairly definitive when it comes to tonality and tuning (if you know how to read it properly and translate into tonality). I can tell for the most part how a pair would sound (in terms of tonality) with raw FR and CSD graphs.

 

[dougms3]

Well Crinacle and myself both heard it independently. Graphs also show elevation in the region generally responsible for this characteristic so, I don't think we're both imagining it. I am fairly confident in my ability to hear changes in FR between headphones. I know that technical performance of drivers can be more difficult to differentiate and may change depending on sources. But I wasn't making claims about the MG's technical performance just it's frequency response. I think the technical performance of the Clear MG trades blows with the LCD-X. LCD-X beating it in soundstage and Clear MG coming out on top when it comes to dynamic punch... you may be able to close the gap by playing around with sources but I didn't bother as I was mostly interested in FR. I actually find the headphone with the most pleasing FR out of the box is the DCA Aeon Noire followed by the Hifiman Sundara and then the HD600. That's right, two mid-fi cans and a closed-back sounded better to me in terms of FR than the Clear MG mind you, my pinna was flexed by the driver so perhaps this had to do with it.

Everyone's confident in their ability to hear changes in FR, everyone also thinks they're a great driver and great at sex.

My point was that crinacle is not the end all be all definitive reference.

FR (assuming measured correctly) is fairly definitive when it comes to tonality and tuning.

Really? Then why is it all the measurements are different from rig to rig. Which one is the correct one?

Where in the FR does it indicate tonality?

 

[chesebert]

Really? Then why is it all the measurements are different from rig to rig. Which one is the correct one?

Where in the FR does it indicate tonality?

This is the real issue - finding a trustworthy source with the right equipment and the right testing knowledge. Tyll did this but I don’t know who to trust right now. So I don’t look at FR before I get a chance to demo. I will only look at FR after demo and after I have taken listening notes. Also I note that actual FR that you hear may be different from the measurements as the testing equipment is simply an approximation of average human ears but everyone’s ears are different. If your ears are significantly different from the one on the testing rig then you will hear a different FR especially in the mid and treble.

FR is simply a sweep of pure sine waves of every frequency. Tonality is simply the combination of all sine waves for that particular musical note. Once you have the correct FR curve you can figure out tonality with experience.

 

[mikecheck95]

Everyone's confident in their ability to hear changes in FR, everyone also thinks they're a great driver and great at sex.

My point was that crinacle is not the end all be all definitive reference.

Really? Then why is it all the measurements are different from rig to rig. Which one is the correct one?

Where in the FR does it indicate tonality?

I actually think a child (or otherwise uninitiated person) would be able to hear changes in FR that are as great as those existing between headphones of two entirely different models. But ya we agree on the fact that Crinacle is not the definitive reference. But, I happen to share the same impression as him on the Clear Mg. So I was curious if others do as well. I saw at least one other person use the term honk to describe the Clear MG and I have seen others say it is “too mid-forward” which I would lump into the same category. Anyway I agree with you, there are plenty of sources and experience is important for getting the whole picture. I hope when I’m 60 I still have some of my air frequencies and I will hopefully be able to pick out some of the finer nuances that I can’t yet.

 

[393699]

Why don't you just buy the Clear, and if you don't like it, you can just sell it. I don't see what the problem is. I would be rather shocked if you don't like the headphone. The out of the box tuning is fairly close to ideal. If you don't want to EQ, it is one of the best headphones out there.

 

[chesebert]

That depends on what is @mikecheck95 ‘s sonic preferences. What is his current daily driver and what does he like and dislike about them?

 

[dougms3]

This is the real issue - finding a trustworthy source with the right equipment and the right testing knowledge. Tyll did this but I don’t know who to trust right now. So I don’t look at FR before I get a chance to demo. I will only look at FR after demo and after I have taken listening notes. Also I note that actual FR that you hear may be different from the measurements as the testing equipment is simply an approximation of average human ears but everyone’s ears are different. If your ears are significantly different from the one on the testing rig then you will hear a different FR especially in the mid and treble.

FR is simply a sweep of pure sine waves of every frequency. Tonality is simply the combination of all sine waves for that particular musical note. Once you have the correct FR curve you can figure out tonality with experience.

That sounds like the exact opposite of definitive, you know well enough that tonality is one of the things you absolutely cannot tell from the FR, along with soundstage, and bass impact, amongst other characteristics.

 

[chesebert]

That sounds like the exact opposite of definitive, you know well enough that tonality is one of the things you absolutely cannot tell from the FR, along with soundstage, and bass impact, amongst other characteristics.

Perhaps we are not talking about the same thing when we refer to “tonality”. I agree on the other aspects FR does not reflect.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

If you are bothered by Clears OG treble, may be MG is the right path. At least this is the area Focal was trying to fix with the new model.

I had the MG for a week and I tried to like it, but it was very bad to my ear. The mids did not resonate with me at all. It sounded chopped up to my ear. The Utopia's are perfect. Less bass. Better treble. Meets my taste perfectly. Interestingly, the Ferrum Orr pairs great with both the Clear and the Utopia. Had I had the Ferrum Orr at the same time I had the Clear, I probably would have kept it and not got the Utopia. But, Utopia is much more resolving so I am happy where I ended up.