[roskodan]

Even the measured difference in tuning between pads, is mostly because of how different focal pads alter the distance from the driver to the ear. If you blow your nose, yawn, move the headphone forward/backward/up/down etc... it's gonna change the "tuning" way more than swapping official focal pads (elear, elex, clear, utopia...).

 

[dontfeedphils]

Even the measured difference in tuning between pads, is mostly because of how different focal pads alter the distance from the driver to the ear. If you blow your nose, yawn, move the headphone forward/backward/up/down etc... it's gonna change the "tuning" way more than swapping official focal pads (elear, elex, clear, utopia...).

Strongly disagree. Pad material will account for a larger difference than driver to ear distance.

 

[up late]

i've little doubt that swapping the clear's pads for the utopia's will change the sound of the clear based on the impressions that i've read from people who have done it

 

[Tekunda]

Why don't you buy a second pair of Clear, maybe secondhand?

 

[roskodan]

Strongly disagree. Pad material will account for a larger difference than driver to ear distance.

Bombshell! The material is the same. And measurements actually show it does not. So I don't know where you coming from with that notion.

Focus on the "Raw Data for Five Headphone Positions":

www.innerfidelity.com/images/FocalClearsnA1BRQE000007.pdf

 

[dontfeedphils]

Bombshell! The material is the same. And measurements actually show it does not. So I don't know where you coming from with that notion.

Focus on the "Raw Data for Five Headphone Positions":

www.innerfidelity.com/images/FocalClearsnA1BRQE000007.pdf

Material in the Clear pad is not the same as the Utopia pad (alcantera vs leather). The distance to driver simply isn't going to account for the change in sound, it's different materials absorbing and reflecting different frequencies.

Also, I'm pretty sure the dimensions of the different Focal pads are the same, so driver to ear distance really shouldn't change all that much, if at all.

 

[roskodan]

The inner lining material is the same. Look at the measurements from that guy earlier in this thread vs Tyll's positioning one, i linked. “You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”

 

[dontfeedphils]

The inner lining material is the same. Look at the measurements from that guy earlier in this thread vs Tyll's positioning one, i linked. “You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”

As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm talking about the outer material. Once again for those that failed to read my last post, leather vs alcantera.

Agree that positioning can impact the FR on Focal cans, but that is absolutely not going to account for more change than swapping pad materials.

 

[roskodan]

Yeah but if we focus on what we feel then we are all right and wrong at the same time. If you AB 2 pads and you hear a subjectively big difference, it's easily 99% subjective and due to other factors than the pads material.

Although, there is one thing that is not being measured, which is the microphonic proprieties of the pads' material in correlation to the bone (skull) to ear transfer. Imo, that should be negligible.

Other than that, people hear big differences between amps that measure the same, but when blind testing they don't anymore, so you have to take into account the things that are actually more likely to make a difference, especially if one can measure that difference.

 

[dontfeedphils]

Yeah but if we focus on what we feel then we are all right and wrong at the same time. If you AB 2 pads and you hear a subjectively big difference, it's easily 99% subjective and due to other factors than the pads material.

Although, there is one thing that is not being measured, which is the microphonic proprieties of the pads' material in correlation to the bone (skull) to ear transfer. Imo, that should be negligible.

Other than that, people hear big differences between amps that measure the same, but when blind testing they don't anymore, so you have to take into account the things that are actually more likely to make a difference, especially if one can measure that difference.

Thanks for the education, but I'm well aware of the difference between subjective vs objective.

Since you're a fan of measurements, here are some solid measurements that show the FR differences when swapping pads on Focal cans.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/effects-switching-pads-focal-utopia-and-elear-0

Hint: the FR changes due to pad/pad material changes.

 

[roskodan]

Yeah, but these are not the measurements of the clear stock vs clear with utopia pads. Check the pdf of the utopia stock vs with elear pads, again the difference in positioning will match or surpass (in dB) the effect of the pad swap (more or less depending on the fr region). The treble region is less affected by eventual changes in seal between positions.

If we take this specific 'utopia incident' under observation, then the conclusion is more likely to be that there is a bigger difference between two stock utopias than what is measured in a pad swap. Why were those measurements pushed like that idk, but imo they are too 'contaminated' by the precursor 'incidents' of the Katz LCD4 vs Tyll Utopia, where Tyll 'discovered' the original 'utopia' review sample was 'cherry picked'.

Most importantly, my observations are exclusive to the elex, and utopia pads on a clear (the elear pads don't have the inner lining diffusor material). Of course that if the pads are wildly different, so will the sound be.

 

[dontfeedphils]

Yeah, but these are not the measurements of the clear stock vs clear with utopia pads. Check the pdf of the utopia stock vs with elear pads, again the difference in positioning will match or surpass (in dB) the effect of the pad swap (more or less depending on the fr region). The treble region is less affected by eventual changes in seal between positions.

If we take this specific 'utopia incident' under observation, then the conclusion is more likely to be that there is a bigger difference between two stock utopias than what is measured in a pad swap. Why were those measurements pushed like that idk, but imo they are too 'contaminated' by the precursor 'incidents' of the Katz LCD4 vs Tyll Utopia, where Tyll 'discovered' the original 'utopia' review sample was 'cherry picked'.

Most importantly, my observations are exclusive to the elex, and utopia pads on a clear (the elear pads don't have the inner lining diffusor material). Of course that if the pads are wildly different, so will the sound be.

Keep moving those goalposts. Here are more measurements exclusive to pad swapping with the Clear, taken from here: https://forum.headphones.com/t/focal-pad-rolling-experiments-measurements/2822/26

At this point, though, I can only assume you're being purposefully obtuse. So I'll leave you to it, friend. Enjoy your day.

 

[roskodan]

Maybe you need help reading these graphs? Clearly showing a >2dB change (black vs red vs yellow lines) from pad swapping vs a 5-10dB delta from different on head positioning. www.innerfidelity.com/images/FocalClearsnA1BRQE000007.pdf

Enjoy your opinion.

 

[GearMe]

Hmmm...from the Headphones.com measurements, it looks like the Clear with Utopia pads measure essentially the same as the Clear pads.

That said, the Stellia and Elear pads have a significant effect in the ~1-2K range (especially the Stellia pads)

 

[Klmahnn]

Thank you. I love my Focal Clear. I would like a 2nd Headphone that is under 400g and great for Movies. Currently I keep unplugging and moving my Clear for TV/Movie listening, but would rather use it only for music on my desk.

I am hoping for a under 400g, excellent Low end Base, Soundstage which is good for movies and has a 3m cable. I thought Sony MDR-Z1R is a good fit. I don’t like Audeze as too heavy. Also sensitive to sibilance.

Any ideas?

my budget is £1,600.

If you want headphones that are great for movies look no further than the Z1R they are incredibly good for that use case!