[Phronesis]

Well doubting Thomas, doubt all you like. That is on you not me. Isn’t it you that intimated the entire brand was a rip off but then suddenly and scientifically the Clear became your superior nirvana?

No, I think the Elear and Clear are worth every penny, and by comparison the Utopia is way overpriced.

Regarding $200 for the pads, well you can get decent headphones for $200, and alcantara isn't all that special.

If you're not a Focal rep, maybe you shouldn't presume to speak for them. And as a retailer of these products, you should know better than to argue with customers online about this stuff ...

 

[TSAVJason]

No, I think the Elear and Clear are worth every penny, and by comparison the Utopia is way overpriced.

Regarding $200 for the pads, well you can get decent headphones for $200, and alcantara isn't all that special.

If you're not a Focal rep, maybe you shouldn't presume to speak for them. And as a retailer of these products, you should know better than to argue with customers online about this stuff ...

The presumption is all on you. I am not and do not represent myself or my company as a “rep” of Focal other than as a reseller. This is well documented and disclosed throughout my headfi comments on the brand. I gave you an opinion based on direct knowledge and relationship with the supplier. You are doing the arguing. Please in the future present the facts.

 

[Phronesis]

The presumption is all on you. I am not and do not represent myself or my company as a “rep” of Focal other than as a reseller. This is well documented and disclosed throughout my headfi comments on the brand. I gave you an opinion based on direct knowledge and relationship with the supplier. You are doing the arguing. Please in the future present the facts.

You miss the point. We customers and potential customers are free to discuss the products and their manufacturers here on head-fi, and to complain about them if we’d like to. It’s good that manufacturers monitor these threads so they can hear what we’re saying, and sometimes chime in when they think that’s appropriate.

If some of us think $200 for pads is overpriced, it makes no sense for you as a reseller with an obvious business interest to jump in to the fray and opine that our opinion is unreasonable. I don’t see other resellers doing such things. It’s up to Focal to listen to the feedback and decide what, if anything, they want to do about the pricing.

 

[Jesse0403]

You still chose to buy the headphones, you didn't have to. Just like you don't have to buy the pads, no one is forcing you.

But this doesnt change the fact that they are expensive, and that is all I am saying.

 

[gLer]

But this doesnt change the fact that they are expensive, and that is all I am saying.

+1. I don’t mind expensive as much as I mind poor value. For such a high value, premium headphone to have pads (and a headband) that need constant cleaning and are prone to wear AND cost what they do is plain and simple poor value.

If Audeze lambskin pads that are twice the size with better foam cost $150, nothing justifies the price of Focal pads. Likewise ZMF pads, which are even better value.

Bottom line is, we can vote with our wallets and just not buy them, which is easier said than done when they’re attached to such good headphones. Thankfully companies like @DekoniAudio make better (and much better value) alternatives, but they’re not always fit for purpose (as in the colour mismatch with the Clear).

 

[gtbrown50]

It's surprising that they make no mention of the Clear Pro's and the acoustic superiority of utilizing the colors Black and Red. The evidence of these claims is not readily available and may be locked in a safe buried hundreds of feet below the surface in an undisclosed location. However, those who have decided to purchase the Professional model which uses the superior color combination, attest that this is in fact true. Black and Red will always sound superior to Silver and Gray. Which is supported by the increase in price between the two models. Consequently, the Black and Red Clear Professional also bears unique badging that identifies the headphones as a different model. Like hood scoops, chrome wheels and spoilers provide added performance to vehicles they're attached to...the use of the word Professional significantly improves the headphones performance over the model that lacks such badging.

I knew I should've read more before I bought my inferior gray/silver Clears!

 

[dontfeedphils]

But this doesnt change the fact that they are expensive, and that is all I am saying.

Yep, and just like another poster mentioned, "Expensive toys, expensive repairs.".

Compare their costs to others all you want, that doesn't mean you know the "all-in-cost" of producing and distributing these pads. I really hope this doesn't turn into another "Why is Focal's warranty like this?!" whining session.

 

[Phronesis]

People are free to whine as they wish. A product being expensive and high quality doesn’t mean manufacturers can gouge owners on replacement parts and expect that owners won’t complain about it. These forums are a two-way street: manufacturers and resellers get marketing value out of them, but they also give consumers a voice.

 

[gLer]

Yep, and just like another poster mentioned, "Expensive toys, expensive repairs.".

Pity you can’t repare or replace the headband - at least not currently. Break it (or wear it out) and you have a big problem. Not the case with any other ‘premium’ or expensive toy that I’m aware of - certainly not a headphone.

 

[dontfeedphils]

Pity you can’t repare or replace the headband - at least not currently. Break it (or wear it out) and you have a big problem. Not the case with any other ‘premium’ or expensive toy that I’m aware of - certainly not a headphone.

I can't imagine they won't have a solution for that by the time people's headbands start to fail.

I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that all of this info is/was available prior to purchasing these headphones. Buyer beware (and educate yourself before you find something you don't like later and then complain about it).

 

[gLer]

I can't imagine they won't have a solution for that by the time people's headbands start to fail.

There was actually a post by a user on a forum-that-shall-not-be-named where he details his corrspondence with Focal following an accidental breakage of his Elear headband, out of which we learned that Focal does in fact not offer replacement of repairs of the headband (especially post warranty), and does not carry spare parts even if you wanted to attempt the repair yourself.

This is backed up a few posts back by @TSAVJason (albeit not directly). And no, this information is not widely available; it’s the sort of stuff you learn if you follow forums like ours or have the misfortune of trying to repair your headband.

Needless to say I’m treating my Elear with kid gloves (as I woukd with any of the other Focals). And for the record I do so because they are superb headphones I would hate to see fail.

 

[Phronesis]

And no, this information is not widely available; it’s the sort of stuff you learn if you follow forums like ours or have the misfortune of trying to repair your headband.

Precisely why people can and should discuss whatever they want about these products - good and bad - rather than the forums being limited to cheerleading which serves the interest of manufacturers, resellers, and owners who only want to hear reinforcement that the product they decided to buy is great.

 

[joseph69]

I really hope this doesn't turn into another "Why is Focal's warranty like this?!" whining session.

Turn into?
It already has.

 

[gLer]

Precisely why people can and should discuss whatever they want about these products - good and bad - rather than the forums being limited to cheerleading which serves the interest of manufacturers, resellers, and owners who only want to hear reinforcement that the product they decided to buy is great.

I agree. Pointing out the flaws as well as the features is how we learn - and how clued-up manufacturers learn what some of us like or don't like about their products. Credit where credit is due, but if you only come here to read up on how good the product is you just bought, you're not really doing yourself any justice.

I'm particularly vocal about the things I *don't* like about my gear because I'm passionate about what I use and want to see its value maximised. It's not because I'm trying to belittle it - I'm trying to get the people that make it improve it even more, or seek solutions from other enthusiasts where they (the manufacturers) won't.

 

[Phronesis]

I agree. Pointing out the flaws as well as the features is how we learn - and how clued-up manufacturers learn what some of us like or don't like about their products. Credit where credit is due, but if you only come here to read up on how good the product is you just bought, you're not really doing yourself any justice.

I'm particularly vocal about the things I *don't* like about my gear because I'm passionate about what I use and want to see its value maximised. It's not because I'm trying to belittle it - I'm trying to get the people that make it improve it even more, or seek solutions from other enthusiasts where they (the manufacturers) won't.

Taking it a step further, there's nothing wrong with saying that we bought a product because we initially liked it (or bought it without trying it), and have come to dislike it. That information can be helpful to others.

Example: I took a chance in buying the M70X, thought it might be a nice step up from the M50X. I initially liked the clarity, but found the bass to be weak. Now I just don't like it in general because other headphones have better clarity and better bass. I have no use for it now, and regret buying it. I haven't sold it because the money isn't worth my time. I haven't given it away to family or friends because I think the bass is too weak for a general listening headphone. My self-esteem isn't overly impacted by admitting to myself and y'all that I made a purchasing mistake, and actually feels kind of good to get that off my chest.