[franz12]

Using a BlueSound Node 2>Vinshine R2R DA>Herron 5 Amp,I’ve been comparing te Clear to th the Ether Flow C, there may be slightly more sub bass with the Ether, but the Clear’s is more dynamic and a lot cleaner. Being perfectly honest, I much prefer the Clear, using the Ether Flow C only when my Wife is sleeping.

Right. Clear has an undeniably better sound than Ether C Flow by a margin. But I found myself reaching to it more often these days than I thought, because of the comfort issue.. Clear is perfect for the first one and half hour...then gives me a headache. For a long listening session, going from Clear to Ether C Flow is quite relief..at least to me..

 

[Wildcatsare1]

Right. Clear has an undeniably better sound than Ether C Flow by a margin. But I found myself reaching to it more often these days than I thought, because of the comfort issue.. Clear is perfect for the first one and half hour...then gives me a headache. For a long listening session, going from Clear to Ether C Flow is quite relief..at least to me..

The pads on both of the Ethers are very comfy, I agree 100%!

 

[bidn]

Just different focus really. Even their tonal balance differences are significant and while the Clear is more "neutral" in balance, some people find that more boring compared to the more aggressive nature of Utopia. When I A/B'd them back and forth Utopia really did standout as being more resolving and detailed, probably because it is more forward in the upper mids/low treble compared to Clear. I also think Utopia does a really unique thing with its staging in that while it isn't wide, it has depth and feels more 3D. I haven't heard another headphone that does that. The Utopia also seems to scale more and respond more sensitively to sources than Clear. So Utopia to me seems better suited for people that want the finest of detail resolution, listen to well mastered material, and are willing to play around with source pairings to suit their preferences. The Clear to me seems better for people that just want something that sounds great "out of the box" without needing to fuss around with other gear and that generally sounds great with all types of music.

I agree with you.
I would like to add that the background is even more silent with the Utopia than with the Clear (both compared with my RME ADI-2 Pro DAC-amp).
For me the Utopia are clearly much better and are ultimate headphones.
However the Clear manages to get the edge over the Utopia re. several points e.g. :
- stronger bass
- lesser impedance (making it more suitable to be used with a portable BT player like the AK XB10 for transforming them into Bluetooth headphones)
- flatter FR
(- many more and very practical accessories).

I own the Utopia and have been willing to buy the Clear for a while but there is so much demand that the store close to me hasn't received another shipment in a while.
The Clear is very difficult to get in many countries, it seems Focal favors the US market (logically, because the biggest one) like when there was too much demand in the summer to the winter 2016 (and maybe later) for the Utopia. So those living in the US can count themselves happy .

 

[qrtas]

Just different focus really. Even their tonal balance differences are significant and while the Clear is more "neutral" in balance, some people find that more boring compared to the more aggressive nature of Utopia. When I A/B'd them back and forth Utopia really did standout as being more resolving and detailed, probably because it is more forward in the upper mids/low treble compared to Clear. I also think Utopia does a really unique thing with its staging in that while it isn't wide, it has depth and feels more 3D. I haven't heard another headphone that does that. The Utopia also seems to scale more and respond more sensitively to sources than Clear. So Utopia to me seems better suited for people that want the finest of detail resolution, listen to well mastered material, and are willing to play around with source pairings to suit their preferences. The Clear to me seems better for people that just want something that sounds great "out of the box" without needing to fuss around with other gear and that generally sounds great with all types of music.

I have never heard the Utopia, but the only fault the clear has is the lack of depth. Is not to bad, but it is noticeable even when compared with the hd600. No doubt, the clear is much better than the hd600 on most things, but the hd600 sounds more 3D. I hear the clear wider than the hd600, but not as deep.

I am compering the clear with the hd600 because it is the only headphone I have kept and I think I’ll always have. It is a good point of reference

 

[Beagle]

Just different focus really. Even their tonal balance differences are significant and while the Clear is more "neutral" in balance, some people find that more boring compared to the more aggressive nature of Utopia. When I A/B'd them back and forth Utopia really did standout as being more resolving and detailed, probably because it is more forward in the upper mids/low treble compared to Clear. I also think Utopia does a really unique thing with its staging in that while it isn't wide, it has depth and feels more 3D. I haven't heard another headphone that does that. The Utopia also seems to scale more and respond more sensitively to sources than Clear. So Utopia to me seems better suited for people that want the finest of detail resolution, listen to well mastered material, and are willing to play around with source pairings to suit their preferences. The Clear to me seems better for people that just want something that sounds great "out of the box" without needing to fuss around with other gear and that generally sounds great with all types of music.

I have never heard the Utopia, but the only fault the clear has is the lack of depth. Is not to bad, but it is noticeable even when compared with the hd600. No doubt, the clear is much better than the hd600 on most things, but the hd600 sounds more 3D. I hear the clear wider than the hd600, but not as deep.

I am compering the clear with the hd600 because it is the only headphone I have kept and I think I’ll always have. It is a good point of reference

I was just going to say how impressed I was with the depth perspective of the Clear, in comparison to most dynamic headphones and a lot of planars. It's whatever depth can be realized in a headphone, which is very little. For proper depth perspective, you really need loudspeakers. Things that 'go deep' on loudspeakers usually appear above the head on headphones.

 

[SilverEars]

Depth is hugely recording dependant. Some headphones may exaggerate it more than others. HE1000 does that.

 

[SilverEars]

There's going to be drop-off in bass with greater ouput impedance amping. So, if bass is of concern look into output impedances of your amps especially the tube ones.

I drove it out of 2ohms OI amp, which really damps the response, and I hear it. Clear has to be most damped dynamic driver headphone I've heard. So out of this amp, bass was sufficient and more noticible to me due to the damping, and perhaps a bit more elevated than I'm used to.

I don't know how well portable devices drives the Clear, but OI are low enough typically.

 

[dontfeedphils]

There's going to be drop-off in bass with greater ouput impedance amping. So, if bass is of concern look into output impedances of your amps especially the tube ones.

I drove it out of 2ohms OI amp, which really damps the response, and I hear it. Clear has to be most damped dynamic driver headphone I've heard. So out of this amp, bass was sufficient and more noticible to me due to the damping, and perhaps a bit more elevated than I'm used to.

I don't know how well portable devices drives the Clear, but OI are low enough typically.

I definitely think biology and individual ear resonances affect this. However, each individual's ear resonances and head related transfer function (HRTF) will emphasize (and de-emphasize) the same frequency areas within that particular individual such that doing relative comparison testing of different headphones should have the same affect (e.g. if your biology emphasizes 2 kHz more than average, it will do so for every headphone you listen to). But it is pretty crazy how different every person's biology will alter how they hear the same thing differently. Here is a great video demonstration of what pink noise played through HD600 sounds like to 10 different people. I linked the video to the specific time point (10:55) that the demonstration happens, but the entire lecture is worth watching and helps shed light why using EQ should not be stigmatized in this community and instead why it is absolutely important because of just how different our own biology dictates how we hear.

I suspect most reviewers doing careful comparative listening find some method to volume match. In all my reviews I always add a section about specific comparisons to other headphones and when I do that testing my method is to always use the same source gear and same tracks. I use a sound level meter and have a cardboard panel placed over one ear side for a good seal with a hole carved in the center that I place the microphone meter through. I personally run pink noise and volume match to within about 0.1-0.2 dB for both headphones. But I know even in this methodology there is error and when I find a preferred volume level for one headphone, matching volume in this manner to the other headphone might not actually be the preferred volume level I would normally listen at for that particular headphone. There's just so many possible reasons each of us report mixed subjective findings when discussing headphones.



No problem, I just wanted to provide more possible explanations for why you might be hearing Utopia vs Clear in a different way than most others are reporting. Though I wouldn't completely rule out amp pairings either, particularly if your amp you are testing both headphones on has a higher output impedance (> 1 Ohm or so) as measurements even show that higher output impedance amps tend to bloat the bass the closer you get to violating the common "1/8 rule" damping factor. Even Solderdude's measurements show that with Utopia (red is 0.2 Ohm output impedance and green is 120 Ohm output impedance):

And his Focal Clear measurements also show a similar pattern when changing amp output impedance (red is 0.2 Ohm output impedance and green is 120 Ohm output impedance):

But at least according to his measurements it still does seem Clear overall has flatter and more bass quantity than Utopia, even when bloating the bass with higher output impedance amps.



Very true, I agree in the 1.5 kHz matching the Utopia still looks to have more volume overall. But again, I just don't know what method people are using to volume match and as I mentioned earlier volume matching in itself is tricky, not precise, and overall a subjective experience. But the point is I do agree that Clear "should" sound more bass heavy compared to Utopia for most people, even I heard it that way when I auditioned both back to back on the same source with the same music. I was just trying to help explain why it is possible others might hear it differently.

And for anyone that finds all this stuff interesting, if you have more questions or thoughts on this feel free to PM me if your comments don't pertain directly to the Clear (to keep this thread on topic). I really do like discussing this stuff and finding new resources. I have degrees in both electrical engineering (digital signal processing) and neuroscience and my career is basically understanding the neural basis of human perception and how our brains interpret external stimuli, which happens to include auditory signals that are relevant here.

Wouldn't it be the opposite as shown in the above graphs?

 

[SilverEars]

That's interesting. I would expect the bass to be least effected, but the graph points out the bass is effected with significant high ouput impedance. This is probably due to the hump in the impedance response of the bass area and that means it's an highly reactive region with electrical resonance, and rest of the spectrum is close to a straight line, least reactive.

The planars are a flat impedance response and does not run into those issues. They are not a reactive load, more like a resistor.

Ok, so the bass does increase with high output impedance amps, and this is due to low damping in the bass region with added impedance from the amp.

 

[givemetacos]

That's interesting. I would expect the bass to be least effected, but the graph points out the bass is effected with significant high ouput impedance. This is probably due to the hump in the impedance response of the bass area and that means it's an highly reactive region with electrical resonance, and rest of the spectrum is close to a straight line, least reactive.

The planars are a flat impedance response and does not run into those issues.

Yep, that is basically it. Dynamics have a variable impedance depending on frequency, something like Sennheiser HD650 can jump from 300 Ohm to 600 Ohm in the bass frequencies. That is why dynamics also tend to respond so well to tube amps because they maintain so much voltage and have great voltage control. This is also why the classic 1/8th damping rule comes into play. Using high output impedance OTL amps like BH Crack (120 Ohm) will tend to bloat the bass on most dynamics, though it does it less so with the highest impedance dynamics. That is also why these types of tube amps are generally known for "warming" the sound signature a bit.

 

[SilverEars]

Yep, that is basically it. Dynamics have a variable impedance depending on frequency, something like Sennheiser HD650 can jump from 300 Ohm to 600 Ohm in the bass frequencies. That is why dynamics also tend to respond so well to tube amps because they maintain so much voltage and have great voltage control. This is also why the classic 1/8th damping rule comes into play. Using high output impedance OTL amps like BH Crack (120 Ohm) will tend to bloat the bass on most dynamics, though it does it less so with the highest impedance dynamics. That is also why these types of tube amps are generally known for "warming" the sound signature a bit.

I'm sure the increased bass from tube amps is due to if the amp is high output impedance, and low damping causing bass distortions. I have seen increased distortion of dynamic driver bass due to the impedance hump. This maybe the tube harmonics(people refer to) or warmth that people may desire out of tube amping. Depends on the level of damping is really desirable to one's ear I guess.

Lately, I realized that body you get is due to the low frequencies, and the harmonics from the distortion probably adds the body somewhat, in case of low damped amping.

 

[givemetacos]

I'm sure the increased bass from tube amps is due to if the amp is high output impedance, and low damping causing bass distortions. I have seen increased distortion of dynamic driver bass due to the impedance hump. This maybe the tube harmonics(people refer to) or warmth that people may desire out of tube amping. Depends on the level of damping is really desirable to one's ear I guess.

Lately, I realized that body you get is due to the low frequencies, and the harmonics from the distortion probably adds the body somewhat, in case of low damped amping.

Yeah, that is precisely what I said and what the 1/8th rule refers to.

 

[SilverEars]

I think how see OI interation for BA iems is different from full-sized dynamic drivers.

 

[Paulo Abreu]

There's going to be drop-off in bass with greater ouput impedance amping. So, if bass is of concern look into output impedances of your amps especially the tube ones.

I drove it out of 2ohms OI amp, which really damps the response, and I hear it. Clear has to be most damped dynamic driver headphone I've heard. So out of this amp, bass was sufficient and more noticible to me due to the damping, and perhaps a bit more elevated than I'm used to.

I don't know how well portable devices drives the Clear, but OI are low enough typically.

Sounds good on X7 with AM5 amp, its <0.5 ohms with 32 ohms loaded. I wouldn't call it an elevated bass but it leaks more into mids than my desktop amp.
I don´t know the output impedance of CMA400i, don't understand how or what is the effect of current mode amplification on this but the bass is even more punchy but on its own place.
My 2 cents

 

[SilverEars]

Yep, that is basically it. Dynamics have a variable impedance depending on frequency, something like Sennheiser HD650 can jump from 300 Ohm to 600 Ohm in the bass frequencies. That is why dynamics also tend to respond so well to tube amps because they maintain so much voltage and have great voltage control. This is also why the classic 1/8th damping rule comes into play. Using high output impedance OTL amps like BH Crack (120 Ohm) will tend to bloat the bass on most dynamics, though it does it less so with the highest impedance dynamics. That is also why these types of tube amps are generally known for "warming" the sound signature a bit.

I've read people recommend crack for the Sennheisers with the bass impedance hump. Makes sense that they are getting a bit of warmth from the result. I've also heard people say that they get sound stage from tube amps. Perhaps due to the added warmth or body creates the perception of filled space(like an ambient feel)? To me warmth and airy are kinda opposites. warmth fills the space or is added body. Airy is like a U shape response(in the extremes), peaked middle to upper treble with lacking the body. Airy is like clarity since the body is reduced.