[klaimzlgd]

was there a tuning difference or only internal wiring difference? I listened to them in Canjam SG and couldn't really distinguished it from 18t

 

[Deezel177]

was there a tuning difference or only internal wiring difference? I listened to them in Canjam SG and couldn't really distinguished it from 18t

The unit at CanJam SG had different internal wiring, solder and shielding material. Externally, it removed the APEX module completely and was wired with a PWAudio 1960s. The SW and the U18t definitely share a few similarities, but they do have key differences. My full thoughts can be seen on my CanJam SG article here: http://theheadphonelist.com/canjam-singapore-2018-a-study-in-portable-audio/

 

[klaimzlgd]

Oh great, thanks!

 

[fuhransahis]

I can't help but feel that not enough attention is given to developing TOTL DD IEMs. It's the one thing that's missing from the Phantom for me. It is literally perfect in every regard other than the fact that although its sub- and mid-bass are spot-on in terms of quantity, extension, and quality (to some extent), the one thing missing is the realism that you can only get from a dynamic driver. This is impossible to fix with tuning. I get dynamics are more difficult for manufacturers to work with but at this point and especially at this price, it feels like laziness, or just catering to market demands of continually higher resolution and detail. And sure, you can't blame them for trying to run a business.

But at some point that resolution and detail becomes unnatural and just flat out unappealing to me. I am not a fan at all of the A18, the Fourte at least gives you a more unique presentation IMO which helps to justify its higher price point, but neither of those merit anything near what they cost due to how how much of the natural origin of music they lack in their ultimate pursuit of detail and resolution. The Mason V3 felt similar but maybe even worse due to what I found to be an unbalanced tuning: the bass region was just underserved in all regards.

I am not a basshead but at the same time to neglect properly representing the bass of any song, whether it is bountiful or more discrete, is to neglect an entire segment of the spectrum of music, and therefore it cannot be considered to be a great reproduction of music.

From what I gather of the current crop of flagships that employ DDs the Legend X might come closest, but is still considered to be bass heavy, which is too far in one direction.

TL;DR: Give me a Phantom with a DD. Thank you

 

[Mimouille]

I love the Phantom universal finish and fit...beautiful. Did not listen yet, need to try all my tips first.

Nic don't remember if you compared AK380 versions?

Do you feel the Hugo 2 is with all the hype? I didn't like the 1 all that much but love the Mojo.

 

[noper]

I can't help but feel that not enough attention is given to developing TOTL DD IEMs. It's the one thing that's missing from the Phantom for me. It is literally perfect in every regard other than the fact that although its sub- and mid-bass are spot-on in terms of quantity, extension, and quality (to some extent), the one thing missing is the realism that you can only get from a dynamic driver. This is impossible to fix with tuning. I get dynamics are more difficult for manufacturers to work with but at this point and especially at this price, it feels like laziness, or just catering to market demands of continually higher resolution and detail. And sure, you can't blame them for trying to run a business.

But at some point that resolution and detail becomes unnatural and just flat out unappealing to me. I am not a fan at all of the A18, the Fourte at least gives you a more unique presentation IMO which helps to justify its higher price point, but neither of those merit anything near what they cost due to how how much of the natural origin of music they lack in their ultimate pursuit of detail and resolution. The Mason V3 felt similar but maybe even worse due to what I found to be an unbalanced tuning: the bass region was just underserved in all regards.

I am not a basshead but at the same time to neglect properly representing the bass of any song, whether it is bountiful or more discrete, is to neglect an entire segment of the spectrum of music, and therefore it cannot be considered to be a great reproduction of music.

From what I gather of the current crop of flagships that employ DDs the Legend X might come closest, but is still considered to be bass heavy, which is too much in one direction.

TL;DR: Give me a Phantom with a DD. Thank you

Personally I found the Legend X bass too polite. Maybe what you’re looking for is Audeze sound in a iem form? Which does sound awesome. I haven’t designed an iem myself, so I can’t be sure but I doubt the engineers are “neglecting” whole frequency ranges or are “lazy”... strong words.

 

[fuhransahis]

Personally I found the Legend X bass too polite. Maybe what you’re looking for is Audeze sound in a iem form? Which does sound awesome. I haven’t designed an iem myself, so I can’t be sure but I doubt the engineers are “neglecting” whole frequency ranges or are “lazy”... strong words.

Well as I mentioned the Legend X description comes from my own interpretation of what others said so I may very well be wrong, but your description of it as being polite is the only one that I've seen (not that you are incorrect, just in the minority).

I'm not saying engineers in general are neglecting the region, I'm saying the Mason V3 did. That may apply to others as well but not a generalization - there have been bass-heavy BAs such as the A12 out there but to make a bass-heavy BA IEM is counterintuitive to me. I understand you can more readily get faster decay and maybe detail from BA bass, but it will never truly be natural.

And the "lazy" part stems from the fact that it's generally more difficult to fine tune a DD than a BA, from what I understand. That IMO at least partially contributes to the percentage of TOTL BAs vs DDs.

I think I may be looking for an Auteur in IEM form (or maybe an LCD-4, haven't heard it so not sure). But then again I've not heard the Auteur either. But more likely what I asked for - a Phantom with a DD!

 

[klyzon]

the discussion on amp was very insightful and interesting thanks guys
Just wondering, what's Sony amp general traits? I have Zeus XR, Layla and would like to buy my first proper dap, currently looking at Sony. Had tried AK line up but it feels too analytical to me

I’m using the zx300, for factor wise it’s perfect, good ui, good battery, and it’s almost the same to me via balanced output ba the wm1a

 

[deafdoorknob]

i too rather liked the zx300 (balanced mode only) and preferred it over similarily priced AK, iBasso DX150 and the oriolus dap. it has that organic schiit that Sony DAPs are known for, but i have only used it with iems.

and still class leading batt. life.

 

[Deezel177]

I can't help but feel that not enough attention is given to developing TOTL DD IEMs. It's the one thing that's missing from the Phantom for me. It is literally perfect in every regard other than the fact that although its sub- and mid-bass are spot-on in terms of quantity, extension, and quality (to some extent), the one thing missing is the realism that you can only get from a dynamic driver. This is impossible to fix with tuning. I get dynamics are more difficult for manufacturers to work with but at this point and especially at this price, it feels like laziness, or just catering to market demands of continually higher resolution and detail. And sure, you can't blame them for trying to run a business.

But at some point that resolution and detail becomes unnatural and just flat out unappealing to me. I am not a fan at all of the A18, the Fourte at least gives you a more unique presentation IMO which helps to justify its higher price point, but neither of those merit anything near what they cost due to how how much of the natural origin of music they lack in their ultimate pursuit of detail and resolution. The Mason V3 felt similar but maybe even worse due to what I found to be an unbalanced tuning: the bass region was just underserved in all regards.

I am not a basshead but at the same time to neglect properly representing the bass of any song, whether it is bountiful or more discrete, is to neglect an entire segment of the spectrum of music, and therefore it cannot be considered to be a great reproduction of music.

From what I gather of the current crop of flagships that employ DDs the Legend X might come closest, but is still considered to be bass heavy, which is too much in one direction.

TL;DR: Give me a Phantom with a DD. Thank you

I think the hurdle lies within the technology itself. You can't mix-and-match DDs like BAs due to size constraints, and proprietary DDs are much harder to R&D due to the sheer number of factors that can affect sound (diaphragm size, coating material, venting, etc.). That's not an excuse by any means, but I can see why developing a flagship with such intricacies would take more time than doing so with BAs. Though, with that said, I think we can quite clearly see a comeback on the horizon for hybrid IEMs; EE's X line-up, the 64Audio N8, UE's new 6D and Live, Advanced Sound's M5, etc. In the mid-tier market, we will soon see the release of Dita's Fealty and Fidelity, and UM's 3DD-Ti - both fully dynamic IEMs. While I agree that full-DD in-ears are rather scarce these days in the high-end, I don't think it'll take long before that trend gets flipped on its head... especially considering the IEMs I know will be coming out very soon...

 

[San Man]

I can't help but feel that not enough attention is given to developing TOTL DD IEMs. It's the one thing that's missing from the Phantom for me. It is literally perfect in every regard other than the fact that although its sub- and mid-bass are spot-on in terms of quantity, extension, and quality (to some extent), the one thing missing is the realism that you can only get from a dynamic driver. This is impossible to fix with tuning. I get dynamics are more difficult for manufacturers to work with but at this point and especially at this price, it feels like laziness, or just catering to market demands of continually higher resolution and detail. And sure, you can't blame them for trying to run a business.

But at some point that resolution and detail becomes unnatural and just flat out unappealing to me. I am not a fan at all of the A18, the Fourte at least gives you a more unique presentation IMO which helps to justify its higher price point, but neither of those merit anything near what they cost due to how how much of the natural origin of music they lack in their ultimate pursuit of detail and resolution. The Mason V3 felt similar but maybe even worse due to what I found to be an unbalanced tuning: the bass region was just underserved in all regards.

I am not a basshead but at the same time to neglect properly representing the bass of any song, whether it is bountiful or more discrete, is to neglect an entire segment of the spectrum of music, and therefore it cannot be considered to be a great reproduction of music.

From what I gather of the current crop of flagships that employ DDs the Legend X might come closest, but is still considered to be bass heavy, which is too far in one direction.

TL;DR: Give me a Phantom with a DD. Thank you

On the converse, although I haven't been in here for a long time like other members, I have been fortunate enough to hear many of the TOTL DDs on the market today. From my perspective, each and every one was missing something in regards to accurately reproducing the entire frequency range, or had some nuance that I found as a flaw. Some didn't hit the sub bass region, some had thin mids, some had poor extension, etc etc. I don't know if it was physical tuning or a limitation of the DD driver used, but all had some "flaw" to me.

YMMV

 

[deafdoorknob]

the closest to an ideal reference DD for me is the humble sony ex800 (7550), esp properly driven with better cabling, i preferred it over the dita dream which may have better technicalities but too clinical and cold for me.

If anything, dont let the low price bias you from its qualites. the EX series is affordable becos of the R&D and manufacturing prowress of peak-Sony, if a boutique brand were to spend the same level of r&d, it would likely cost order of magnitude more.

the 6-7khz peak largely resolves itself with deeper than normal insertion as well tip rolling.

the jvc dds have good potential but their tunings are more "characterful" than they ought to.

 

[Mimouille]

I showed the AK Norma pic to a friend in the audio business.

He said :

"Hate companies that do this.... Throw sh@#t at the wall and see what sticks"

 

[Deezel177]

I showed the AK Norma pic to a friend in the audio business.



He said :

"Hate companies that do this.... Throw sh@#t at the wall and see what sticks"

Every person I've talked to in and out of audio absolutely despises the design. Each time I see a picture of it online, I laugh to myself imagining people swiping diagonally instead of downwards to pick tracks. It looks like enough exposure to the device could very well intrude on muscle memory and inhibit you from ever drawing a straight vertical line again.

 

[San Man]

I showed the AK Norma pic to a friend in the audio business.



He said :

"Hate companies that do this.... Throw sh@#t at the wall and see what sticks"

How the hell does a POS like that pass the initial design stages? I mean, do they actually think that looks good?