[Deezel177]

thanks for heads up, if you didnt like the w80 and i like them but you love the u18t maybe i will be wowed then. i'm always blind buying
for the record i think you mean upper-treble has a peak at around 9k-10k which can cause sibilance sometimes

My definition of lower-treble is around 8-10 kHz - give or take. Upper-treble to me is the range above that, which affects air, transient performance and brightness of tone.

Thanks!



I would love to hear the Warbler. Nic and I discussed it a lot when I was getting into the IEM scene many months ago. I knew teh Phantom was going to be released, although I didn't know the name or anything. I decided to wait and am so glad I did. I got to audition so many TOTL IEM's at the show and I liked the Phantom the best. It was because it's a true reference as Daniel knows and it keeps a wormer balance. I really enjoy that part of it. I still get the detail. It's not teh last word on unveiling the music, but you forget about that completely when you can just listen to music that you love and not worry about sharing your thoughts about what you are hearing. Hope that doesn't offend, but to me, that's when I know I made the right choice. I can turn it on and listen for hours.

I now that EE is getting ready to send out IEM units to audition. Does Warbler do this? I want to hear them. I have the 64 Trio being sent when it's freed up. I quite enjoyed it also when I first heard it. Lot's of great IEM's out there.

Warbler Audio is still working on a universal demo for the Prelude. Given how much acoustic design goes into it, it's an understandably arduous process.

In that case, I may have to try out the Warbler Prelude first before deciding if it's something that will possibly suit me. I'm from Malaysia.

Ahh, I see! Where did you get the chance to try these IEMs? If you ever find yourself with the opportunity to spend a day or two in Singapore, I can recommend you every single IEM store over there. If you're interested, just PM me the brands you'd like to audition, and I can let you know where to find them and what times they open.

 

[4Fan]

Ahh, I see! Where did you get the chance to try these IEMs? If you ever find yourself with the opportunity to spend a day or two in Singapore, I can recommend you every single IEM store over there. If you're interested, just PM me the brands you'd like to audition, and I can let you know where to find them and what times they open.

Jaben and Starspickers. Sure if i'm planning to drop by Singapore i'll shoot you a PM. Thanks!

 

[Mimouille]

@ctsooner22 , there are 2 folds to this. 1. Overtones of a Musical Note and 2. The role that Upper Treble plays when it comes to musical reproduction in IEMs/Headphones

A note of an instrument is composed of fundamental frequency and overtones. Some of these overtones lie in the upper treble region (>10kHz). The amplitude of the overtones are usually lower than the fundamentals and the lower order overtones.

Music for ages were recorded to be reproduced on speakers. And when you listened to music through speakers in a room, the acoustics of the room created standing waves of lower frequencies that masked the overtones in the upper treble. And to make things worse, high frequencies are not omni-directional. So off-axis, the perceived treble is a bit subdued. (@ctsooner, you probably already knew that, but I am adding this just as a general info for other interested readers).

Now things start to get complicated when you get to headphones and IEMs. Because IEMs shoot the sound waves directly into your ears, the upper treble is not usually masked like on speakers in a room. So the question becomes, should you tune the IEM to be a reference flat speaker in a free-field? In which case, the IEM would produce perceivable amounts of upper-treble. On the other hand, should you tune the IEM in the way, your ears perceived the sound from the speaker in a room (diffused field)? In which case, the upper treble should be toned down a little bit.

Now that is just the tonality and timbre aspect of a musical note. But when it comes to headphones and IEMs, upper treble plays a role in determining a few non-tonality aspects of the music reproduction. Which is the aspect @Deezel177 is referring to. Upper treble improves the perceived resolution, imaging precision, layering and the sense of completion of the note.

Also @dc655321 made a good point. An IEM capable of producing upper registers without roll-off and without much distortion, is an indication of an IEM's transient response capability. Such an IEM can display great resolution in the mid-range. So its all a Balancing Act. You make an IEM that is able to produce upper treble without roll off, and then intentionally tune the upper-treble down by a tiny bit for natural perceived timbre and tonality. But also make sure, you don't dial it down to an extent where the resolution, imaging precision and layering are destroyed.

Great post. I don't understand everything, because I am clearly not an expert at this, but there is one thing I am confused about. The capability to reproduce upper frequencies without distortion and the transient response. Isn't transient response (more or less) the way your speaker or iem or whatever manages peaks in voltage / dB and creates more or less distortion as a consequence? Also, and this might have nothing to do with this, but are BAs not much more...hum...nimble and have less issues with transient response than dynamic drivers or speakers?

 

[WatCult]

Planning to upgrade from my Pinnacle P1. Looking for something slightly warmer than neutral with well-controlled bass and accuracy. Spacious with a slight sparkle. Anyone has compare between Heir Audio 8.A, Andromeda & EE Vantage? Hoping to keep it under 1500.

 

[Dash]

Planning to upgrade from my Pinnacle P1. Looking for something slightly warmer than neutral with well-controlled bass and accuracy. Spacious with a slight sparkle. Anyone has compare between Heir Audio 8.A, Andromeda & EE Vantage? Hoping to keep it under 1500.

I went from the P1 to the Spartan IV. I know that the P1 has a downward slope with a bump in the treble. I love the extension of the Spartan in along with a noticeable increase in resolution across the board. The Spartan, though is not harsh at all and has a slight warmth to it. I think the Spartan is still worth a look even with the new line ups from EE. I guess that is why they created the legacy section.

 

[Deezel177]

Planning to upgrade from my Pinnacle P1. Looking for something slightly warmer than neutral with well-controlled bass and accuracy. Spacious with a slight sparkle. Anyone has compare between Heir Audio 8.A, Andromeda & EE Vantage? Hoping to keep it under 1500.

I haven’t heard the 8.A in years, but the Andromeda and the Vantage are extremely different IEMs. The Andromeda’s are much leaner and brighter in tone, but they way it presents clarity is quite admirably smooth. The Vantage’s have a ton more body, a significantly warmer tone and a much heavier bass response. The Vantage’s low-end is what contributes to its warmth and richness, fuelling butteriness into the midrange without much bleed. It is a prominent low-end nonetheless, so if reigned in is what you mean by controlled, then the Vantage doesn’t look like it’s for you. The Phantom’s actually sound like what you might be looking for, but if you want something more safe and agreeable towards badly-produced tracks, then QDC’s offerings have promise as well. The Anole v6 is a six-driver IEM with two switches for four possible tunings. The 64Audio N8t is also a personal favorite of mine, but it - like the Vantage - may be a bit bass-happy to some.

 

[Ike1985]

Great post. I don't understand everything, because I am clearly not an expert at this, but there is one thing I am confused about. The capability to reproduce upper frequencies without distortion and the transient response. Isn't transient response (more or less) the way your speaker or iem or whatever manages peaks in voltage / dB and creates more or less distortion as a consequence? Also, and this might have nothing to do with this, but are BAs not much more...hum...nimble and have less issues with transient response than dynamic drivers or speakers?

Not an expert either but I believe BA's are more nimble until you start getting into the planar, insanely lightweight metals and other advanced tech. As far as IEMs are concerned I prefer the bass of a well tuned and powerful BA because of the quickness of the onset(more thump/slam), pinpoint nature of it's emergence in the stage and contained decay to the less focused/more diffuse DD-that's how I've heard it anyway. A12 would be an exception with regard to decay because it had an extended rumble I would consider typically uncharacteristic of the BA's I've heard that have significant bass.

 

[WatCult]

I went from the P1 to the Spartan IV. I know that the P1 has a downward slope with a bump in the treble. I love the extension of the Spartan in comparison with a noticeable increase in resolution across the board. The Spartan, though is not harsh at all and has a slight warmth to it. I think the Spartan is still worth a look even with the new line ups from EE. I guess that is why they created the legacy section.

Thanks for your suggestion. I might try to find the Spartan for a demo.

 

[Dash]

I like the Spartan more than the Jupiter and Andromeda. I can appreciate the Andromeda, but did not care for the treble. The Jupiter has something amiss in the upper mids that I grew to dislike.

 

[WatCult]

I haven’t heard the 8.A in years, but the Andromeda and the Vantage are extremely different IEMs. The Andromeda’s are much leaner and brighter in tone, but they way it presents clarity is quite admirably smooth. The Vantage’s have a ton more body, a significantly warmer tone and a much heavier bass response. The Vantage’s low-end is what contributes to its warmth and richness, fuelling butteriness into the midrange without much bleed. It is a prominent low-end nonetheless, so if reigned in is what you mean by controlled, then the Vantage doesn’t look like it’s for you. The Phantom’s actually sound like what you might be looking for, but if you want something more safe and agreeable towards badly-produced tracks, then QDC’s offerings have promise as well. The Anole v6 is a six-driver IEM with two switches for four possible tunings. The 64Audio N8t is also a personal favorite of mine, but it - like the Vantage - may be a bit bass-happy to some.

Yes. I know that Andromeda and Vantage are two different sound signatures. Personally, I thought that I really like Andromeda. Never been a basshead but after demoing the Bravado, I kept thinking about that viseral bass Just wondering whether the Vantage will bring it up a notch. I heard that the Heir 8.A also might similar low end. That's why I put it under consideration.

 

[Deezel177]

Yes. I know that Andromeda and Vantage are two different sound signatures. Personally, I thought that I really like Andromeda. Never been a basshead but after demoing the Bravado, I kept thinking about that viseral bass Just wondering whether the Vantage will bring it up a notch. I heard that the Heir 8.A also might similar low end. That's why I put it under consideration.

The Bravado’s low-end is more impactful and dynamic, while the Vantage’s bass is warmer, richer and more voluminous. It’s more - definitely - but it’s also different in presentation. The Bravado also has a crisper and airier top-end, while the Vantage is more lush and laidback.

 

[swesko]

any idea if theres a new ranking coming?wanna know if any drastic changes are coming

 

[Deezel177]

any idea if theres a new ranking coming?wanna know if any drastic changes are coming

Nope. This specific list is closed and done for. And, as far as I know, Nic won’t take on an ordeal as massive as the shoot-out within the foreseeable future.

 

[Dash]

Yes. I know that Andromeda and Vantage are two different sound signatures. Personally, I thought that I really like Andromeda. Never been a basshead but after demoing the Bravado, I kept thinking about that viseral bass Just wondering whether the Vantage will bring it up a notch. I heard that the Heir 8.A also might similar low end. That's why I put it under consideration.

I receive the Bravado today and should be able to give some more feedback.

 

[WatCult]

The Bravado’s low-end is more impactful and dynamic, while the Vantage’s bass is warmer, richer and more voluminous. It’s more - definitely - but it’s also different in presentation. The Bravado also has a crisper and airier top-end, while the Vantage is more lush and laidback.

Looks like I need to demo the Vantage to determine whether the different presentation in the low end works for me. Sounds like it is completely different from Bravado.