[bvng3540]

Thanks Daniel. Makes a ton of sense.



Yes, I know much of what yo wrote, but you did such a great job of explaining, it was a GREAT refresher course. I will ask Richard Vandersteen about this. I promise you that he'll have a nice and accurate (lengthy) dissertation. I love learning from him to say teh least.

I have set my speakers up for both near filed as well as normal listening. I don't have any standing wave problems and have measured all the way down to 26hz down only 1db. I also use some room treatments to get the room to sound better. This is what I mentioned on this thread or another one earlier today. Teh inside of the ear is much more predictable compared to a room. There is just so much going on here, but I can promise you that there is a lot of info on recordings above 15khz I think the poster mentioned. There is a reason many of the new tweeters go all the way up to over 35khz now.

Man you guys are a bunch of audio NERDS no idea what you guys talking about, to me all I know is when I stick an IEM in my ears and it sound good, that all matter to me

 

[Wyville]

Man you guys are a bunch of audio NERDS no idea what you guys talking about, to me all I know is when I stick an IEM in my ears and it sound good, that all matter to me

That's what I like so much about this thread. We all goof around a lot, but there is a lot of knowledge and understanding buried under all those gifs!

 

[4Fan]

To anyone who've owned/heard the Andromeda, will the UE18+ be a nice upgrade? The Andros can be a tad fatiguing and bright for me, looking for something with a similar-ish sound with a slightly lower treble, or an upgrade if possible. Currently looking at the UE18+ and qdc Gemini .. hoping to keep it under $2000

 

[Deezel177]

To anyone who've owned/heard the Andromeda, will the UE18+ be a nice upgrade? The Andros can be a tad fatiguing and bright for me, looking for something with a similar-ish sound with a slightly lower treble, or an upgrade if possible. Currently looking at the UE18+ and qdc Gemini .. hoping to keep it under $2000

If you find the Andromeda’s too bright, the UE18+ would be great for you. They’re considerably warmer in tone, but just as clear, extended and resolving; just not airy due to the controlled top-end. What IEMs or headphones have you heard would you consider too warm? I’m just making sure the UE18+’s aren’t too far off the spectrum for you to consider.

 

[swesko]

@Deezel177 i'm looking to upgrade to the 64audio u18t, coming from the w80, is it the same signature, as i like the w80 sound but want something new and TOTL

 

[Mython]

Man you guys are a bunch of audio NERDS no idea what you guys talking about, to me all I know is when I stick an IEM in my ears and it sound good, that all matter to me

WTH? What kind of weirdo buys an IEM to sound good?

You're on the wrong website, my friend.

If you want to fit in around here, then you're going to have to learn that the purpose of buying an IEM is to feel dissatisfied with it and to compare it with the next IEM you buy, so that you can more accurately describe why you are dissatisfied with each of them and thereby justify to us and yourself that spending more money on yet another IEM would be a good idea.

 

[Kerouac]

To anyone who've owned/heard the Andromeda, will the UE18+ be a nice upgrade? The Andros can be a tad fatiguing and bright for me, looking for something with a similar-ish sound with a slightly lower treble, or an upgrade if possible. Currently looking at the UE18+ and qdc Gemini .. hoping to keep it under $20000

I've got the Andro and have auditioned both UE18+ and qdc Gemini. Unfortunattely I couldn't get the best fit with the UE18+ at that time, but the qdc Gemini certainly was an upgrade to my ears.
I liked it a lot and it was one of my favourites (together with the VE8 and A18 Tzar) that I've had on a loan. The switch of the Gemini was also a very nice bonus imo!


But if you have a $2K budget, then you might also take a serious look at (yeah warmer, but both wonderful tuned) IEMs like the Warbler Prelude or EE Phantom

 

[4Fan]

If you find the Andromeda’s too bright, the UE18+ would be great for you. They’re considerably warmer in tone, but just as clear, extended and resolving; just not airy due to the controlled top-end. What IEMs or headphones have you heard would you consider too warm? I’m just making sure the UE18+’s aren’t too far off the spectrum for you to consider.

I haven't had the opportunity to try out warm higher-end IEMs, the only warm one I can remember listening to is the Oriolus MK2 and the qdc 5SH. I am not sure if it's the characteristic of a warm IEM or something else, the treble of those 2 iem just sound so disconnect thus leading to a lack of coherency? I'm not sure what is it, but I didn't really enjoy those 2 that much, though the MK2 is better than the 5SH if I have to compare those 2 only.

 

[4Fan]

I've got the Andro and have auditioned both UE18+ and the qdc Gemini. Unfortunattely I couldn't get the best fit with the UE18+ at that time, but the qdc Gemini certainly was an upgrade to my ears.
I liked it a lot and it was one of my favourites (together with the VE8 and A18 Tzar) that I've had on a loan. The switch of the Gemini was also a very nice bonus imo!


But if you have a $2K budget, then you might also take a serious look at (yeah warmer, but both wonderful tuned) IEMs like the Warbler Prelude or EE Phantom

I'd like to spend as little as possible of course, but then again at this price point I just want to get something that will stick with me for longer than a year hopefully hahaha. I remember trying out the UERR and couldn't get a good fit as well. I'm seriously considering the Gemini right now. I doubt I'll go for the Warbler since its only custom and at the moment i'm only interested in Universals.

 

[Layman1]

@ctsooner22 , there are 2 folds to this. 1. Overtones of a Musical Note and 2. The role that Upper Treble plays when it comes to musical reproduction in IEMs/Headphones

A note of an instrument is composed of fundamental frequency and overtones. Some of these overtones lie in the upper treble region (>10kHz). The amplitude of the overtones are usually lower than the fundamentals and the lower order overtones.

Music for ages were recorded to be reproduced on speakers. And when you listened to music through speakers in a room, the acoustics of the room created standing waves of lower frequencies that masked the overtones in the upper treble. And to make things worse, high frequencies are not omni-directional. So off-axis, the perceived treble is a bit subdued. (@ctsooner, you probably already knew that, but I am adding this just as a general info for other interested readers).

Now things start to get complicated when you get to headphones and IEMs. Because IEMs shoot the sound waves directly into your ears, the upper treble is not usually masked like on speakers in a room. So the question becomes, should you tune the IEM to be a reference flat speaker in a free-field? In which case, the IEM would produce perceivable amounts of upper-treble. On the other hand, should you tune the IEM in the way, your ears perceived the sound from the speaker in a room (diffused field)? In which case, the upper treble should be toned down a little bit.

Now that is just the tonality and timbre aspect of a musical note. But when it comes to headphones and IEMs, upper treble plays a role in determining a few non-tonality aspects of the music reproduction. Which is the aspect @Deezel177 is referring to. Upper treble improves the perceived resolution, imaging precision, layering and the sense of completion of the note.

Also @dc655321 made a good point. An IEM capable of producing upper registers without roll-off and without much distortion, is an indication of an IEM's transient response capability. Such an IEM can display great resolution in the mid-range. So its all a Balancing Act. You make an IEM that is able to produce upper treble without roll off, and then intentionally tune the upper-treble down by a tiny bit for natural perceived timbre and tonality. But also make sure, you don't dial it down to an extent where the resolution, imaging precision and layering are destroyed.

Seriously, thanks for this great post!
This is one of the things I love about Head-Fi; the chance to just learn more about things that I've wondered about for years.
Or things that I didn't even know that I didn't know
It's a real privilege. Thanks to you (and everyone else) for the insights and knowledge you share on here

 

[Deezel177]

@Deezel177 i'm looking to upgrade to the 64audio u18t, coming from the w80, is it the same signature, as i like the w80 sound but want something new and TOTL

I auditioned the W80 and all I can unfortunately remember is very quickly disliking it. It has quite the sharp lower-treble peak if I remember correctly, but I believe it had a brighter overall tuning. If so, then the U18t is an excellent choice to upgrade towards. It'll give you more air, clarity and openness whilst being smoother than the W80, plus a healthy amount of kick in the mid-bass.

I haven't had the opportunity to try out warm higher-end IEMs, the only warm one I can remember listening to is the Oriolus MK2 and the qdc 5SH. I am not sure if it's the characteristic of a warm IEM or something else, the treble of those 2 iem just sound so disconnect thus leading to a lack of coherency? I'm not sure what is it, but I didn't really enjoy those 2 that much, though the MK2 is better than the 5SH if I have to compare those 2 only.

Hmm... I believe I get what you mean. In that case, something warmer and rounded with linear extension would be in the cards for you. I second the Warbler Prelude recommendation if you ever reconsider the universal decision. The UE18+ and the Gemini are rather different IEMs. The former is warmer, but beautifully balances smoothness, clarity and engagement. The latter is a more clarity-focused IEM with cleaner notes, but it exerts excellent control to maintain a neutral tone. The only thing that concerns me is that QDC has a pretty specific house sound, so any negatives you hear in the 5SH may exist in some form or another in the Gemini. Considering you've tried all three of these IEMs (including the UERR), may I ask you where you live? I could maybe point you towards dealers where you could try them out yourself.

 

[swesko]

I auditioned the W80 and all I can unfortunately remember is very quickly disliking it. It has quite the sharp lower-treble peak if I remember correctly, but I believe it had a brighter overall tuning. If so, then the U18t is an excellent choice to upgrade towards. It'll give you more air, clarity and openness whilst being smoother than the W80, plus a healthy amount of kick in the mid-bass.

thanks for heads up, if you didnt like the w80 and i like them but you love the u18t maybe i will be wowed then. i'm always blind buying
for the record i think you mean upper-treble has a peak at around 9k-10k which can cause sibilance sometimes

 

[ctsooner22]

Man you guys are a bunch of audio NERDS no idea what you guys talking about, to me all I know is when I stick an IEM in my ears and it sound good, that all matter to me

Thanks!

I've got the Andro and have auditioned both UE18+ and qdc Gemini. Unfortunattely I couldn't get the best fit with the UE18+ at that time, but the qdc Gemini certainly was an upgrade to my ears.
I liked it a lot and it was one of my favourites (together with the VE8 and A18 Tzar) that I've had on a loan. The switch of the Gemini was also a very nice bonus imo!


But if you have a $2K budget, then you might also take a serious look at (yeah warmer, but both wonderful tuned) IEMs like the Warbler Prelude or EE Phantom

I would love to hear the Warbler. Nic and I discussed it a lot when I was getting into the IEM scene many months ago. I knew teh Phantom was going to be released, although I didn't know the name or anything. I decided to wait and am so glad I did. I got to audition so many TOTL IEM's at the show and I liked the Phantom the best. It was because it's a true reference as Daniel knows and it keeps a wormer balance. I really enjoy that part of it. I still get the detail. It's not teh last word on unveiling the music, but you forget about that completely when you can just listen to music that you love and not worry about sharing your thoughts about what you are hearing. Hope that doesn't offend, but to me, that's when I know I made the right choice. I can turn it on and listen for hours.

I now that EE is getting ready to send out IEM units to audition. Does Warbler do this? I want to hear them. I have the 64 Trio being sent when it's freed up. I quite enjoyed it also when I first heard it. Lot's of great IEM's out there.

 

[soullinker20]

wanna be part in case there's a Phantom tour

 

[4Fan]

I auditioned the W80 and all I can unfortunately remember is very quickly disliking it. It has quite the sharp lower-treble peak if I remember correctly, but I believe it had a brighter overall tuning. If so, then the U18t is an excellent choice to upgrade towards. It'll give you more air, clarity and openness whilst being smoother than the W80, plus a healthy amount of kick in the mid-bass.



Hmm... I believe I get what you mean. In that case, something warmer and rounded with linear extension would be in the cards for you. I second the Warbler Prelude recommendation if you ever reconsider the universal decision. The UE18+ and the Gemini are rather different IEMs. The former is warmer, but beautifully balances smoothness, clarity and engagement. The latter is a more clarity-focused IEM with cleaner notes, but it exerts excellent control to maintain a neutral tone. The only thing that concerns me is that QDC has a pretty specific house sound, so any negatives you hear in the 5SH may exist in some form or another in the Gemini. Considering you've tried all three of these IEMs (including the UERR), may I ask you where you live? I could maybe point you towards dealers where you could try them out yourself.

In that case, I may have to try out the Warbler Prelude first before deciding if it's something that will possibly suit me. I'm from Malaysia.