[Ike1985]

which do you prefer so far?

A18t with M20 is EXACTLY the signature I enjoy, so it's going to be hard for either one of these to top it. However, I am extremely impressed with both atm. The DD bass of the trio certainly has more detail down low in the sub bass, much more texture than the more rounded BA bass although I must add 64 BA bass is something special especially on the A18t and A12t. This is the first thing that hit me with regard to Trio vs A18t/A12t. A18t is still superior with regard to resolution. Still way early and I can't say anything else.

I've loaded all my Audiophile tracks in FLAC and DSD onto my S8+ running UAPP and I'm in airplane mode feeding them to Hugo2 via USB C to Micro B cable, so I'm doing things like keying up tracks used to test stage, imaging, layering and separation, bass texture, extension, etc and then going back and forth between A18t, A12t and Trio and making notes. It's just very very difficult to remain in review mode with the setup I have and not drift away into the music.

I can add that these IEMS continue the trend I'm seeing from 64 wherein they all sound great straight out of phones as well.

 

[ctsooner22]

Yep that's definitely one top-of-the-line hand. The thumb is a little bit recessed, but the pronounced middle finger certainly gives it its characteristic flavor.

The signature is not for everybody, that's for sure. Can be a little harsh at times.

I can't.... I can't...... Sorry, but you all know where this post was headed I'm sure.

 

[Ike1985]

Alright I've had 4 hours with both of them now, going back and forth:

Trio w/ 64 Audio foam tips vs A18t w/M20:

X A18t has ever so slightly more resolution from mids to upper mids and through to highs while Trio has more down low
Trio has more the more visceral bass (pushing more air) with more impact in both mid and sub bass

X Trio has the overall more natural sound, thus it is more transparent, especially with cymbals and female vocals

X It's easier to distinguing image location with Trio because the the stage is smaller(more intimate) and thus images are closer, more solid and less airy, it's a tradeoff smaller stage w/closer more concrete images vs much larger stage with more airy images on A18t. In no way am I saying Trio stage is small, it's a solid medium edging toward large, it's a beautiful stage.

X Trio's more nautral slighlty less dynamic presentation, more intimate stage makes it easier for the brain to follow a violin in the midst of a congested passage with Trio than A18t as A18t emphasizes the guitars more and the violin less for example at about 2:20 into Wind by Ellende the violin is very easy to pickup and follow when the mayhem begins with Trio whereas A18t requires a bit more brain work and focus (I highly suggest u get the FLAC as this track is good for testing this specific purpose)



again likely due to stage dimensions of both and the airy images of A18t

X Trio has the smaller stage but more 3d much like Zeus XIV, A18t stage is much wider

X Trio has better image solidity, images more airy on A18t

X A18t bass extends tonally deeper

X Trio has the more high resolution bass with more texture rendered on the image

From what I remember of Fourte, IMO Trio sounds like a better Fourte. Better in the sense of the more visceral bass, Fourte was just too bass light. Fourte likely has more detail. I'm going to ask 64 to send me a Fourte so I can analyze all 3 together.

Trio is beautiful sounding I just wish it was custom for comfort.

Gear used:
S8+ in airplane mode running UAPP
Hugo2

 

[NaiveSound]

From what I remember, u18 has the best imaging and separation I've rheard in any iem/full size hp.

The vocals could use a more forward tone similar to Zeus but u18t really was impressive and easy to listen to.

Gobs and gobs of detail.

 

[fuhransahis]

Another friendly reminder of how much your personal preferences play into your music experience - I'm not much of a fan of the U18 at all. Very much got a "wall of sound" experience from it along with a mid bass bump that came off more annoying than impressive. It could be priced at $500 and I'd choose the Phantom any day of any week. But to each his own

 

[klyzon]

Another friendly reminder of how much your personal preferences play into your music experience - I'm not much of a fan of the U18 at all. Very much got a "wall of sound" experience from it along with a mid bass bump that came off more annoying than impressive. It could be priced at $500 and I'd choose the Phantom any day of any week. But to each his own

I feel the u18t is really good for what it is, just not at that price where phantoms or Zeus is easily what I would prefer.

 

[Mimouille]

Very nice hand!

Thank you, it has pleased me quite often.

 

[Mimouille]

Yep that's definitely one top-of-the-line hand. The thumb is a little bit recessed, but the pronounced middle finger certainly gives it its characteristic flavor.

The white gold ring brings some control to the sound, even though it sometimes feels a little constricted.

 

[mrears]

I have been on a quest to find an IEM that comes close to the sound signature of my beloved Mr Speakers Aeon Closed back. What I love about these planar magnetic headphones is that they have extremely high resolution while having a gorgeous timbre. They have an almost dead neutral tuning that measures very close to the Harmon target response curve, and effortless separation that makes every instrument sound perfect and emotional to me. However I cannot wear them in public without looking like princess leia.

I was about to buy the SE5 Ultimate, having sent in impressions and everything (still in the mail so I haven't paid yet), until I came across the EE Phantom... I am now I'm thinking the Phantom might be a bit better for what I'm looking for. It would also be a lot nicer that it is a US company because dealing with overseas shipping / customs has the potential to be a nightmare. If anyone could help I would really appreciate it.

 

[mrears]

I have been on a quest to find an IEM that comes close to the sound signature of my beloved Mr Speakers Aeon Closed back. What I love about these planar magnetic headphones is that they have extremely high resolution while having a gorgeous timbre. They have an almost dead neutral tuning that measures very close to the Harmon target response curve, and effortless separation that makes every instrument sound perfect and emotional to me. However I cannot wear them in public without looking like princess leia.

I was about to buy the SE5 Ultimate, having sent in impressions and everything (still in the mail so I haven't paid yet), until I came across the EE Phantom... I am now I'm thinking the Phantom might be a bit better for what I'm looking for. It would also be a lot nicer that it is a US company because dealing with overseas shipping / customs has the potential to be a nightmare. If anyone could help I would really appreciate it.

I've read and reread @flinkenick comparison:

But the Phantom’s natural competitor is the 5-Way; that other IEM with a rare blend of timbre and performance. As with Zeus, the Phantom shares a few similarities; in the case of the 5-Way, its three-dimensional stage, and similar vocal reconstruction in terms of body and forwardness. However, they are equally defined by key differences, starting with their bass. In my opinion, the 5-Way has the best BA bass from an audiophile perspective, combining deep extension with a resolved mid-bass, natural in tone. The Phantom can’t quite match the naturalness of its bass, opting for a cleaner bass, with similar extension. The difference returns throughout the presentation. The 5-Way’s warmer tonality results in its exceedingly natural and organic signature, with warmer upper mids and a smoother treble. The Phantom trades some of its warmth for clearer, more melodious upper mids, as well as slightly greater instrument body. Its treble is a bit crisper, where the 5-Way’s is warmer, and a bit smoother. Taken together, the 5-Way has the warmer, more romantic tuning. The Phantom in turn offers greater transparency as well as a more versatile sound, while sharing a similar beauty in its timbre.

So I guess the main difference would be that the 5 way is a bit warmer and smoother in the treble? I get the impression that the 5 way is darker, while the Phantom is closer to neutral on the scale between dark and bright? If the 5 way is less transparent, does that mean it has less separation? I'm also a bit worried that Nick mentioned the Universal Phantom version is more "open" than the Custom, while the Custom is more "musical" - I'm kind of worried the custom Phantom will be a bit too closed together or muddled. I would prefer open to "musical".

I should also mention that I currently own an SEM-9, which I really like. I agree with the consensus on it that it is very precise, fast, with an intimate soundstage and musical tuning. But I want something that is a custom fit for isolation reasons, and I also feel timbre is kind of missing on some instruments. Bass seems to get in the way sometimes, especially on piano and vocals depending on the track. I think the "musical" tuning can some kind cover up what I want to hear.

It may also be the case that the SEM9 doesn't match my genres well. I listen to lots of jazz ensembles (John Coltrane, Art Pepper) and lots of female vocalists, with occasional electric guitars / fusion. I also listen to a lot of orchestras like Tchaikovsky. My favorite artist right now is Cecile Mclorin Salvant - an unbelievable female vocalist you should listen to if you haven't heard of her.

 

[proedros]

I have been on a quest to find an IEM that comes close to the sound signature of my beloved Mr Speakers Aeon Closed back. What I love about these planar magnetic headphones is that they have extremely high resolution while having a gorgeous timbre. They have an almost dead neutral tuning that measures very close to the Harmon target response curve, and effortless separation that makes every instrument sound perfect and emotional to me. However I cannot wear them in public without looking like princess leia.

I was about to buy the SE5 Ultimate, having sent in impressions and everything (still in the mail so I haven't paid yet), until I came across the EE Phantom... I am now I'm thinking the Phantom might be a bit better for what I'm looking for. It would also be a lot nicer that it is a US company because dealing with overseas shipping / customs has the potential to be a nightmare. If anyone could help I would really appreciate it.

@Kerouac also tried both and he preferred phantom

the us/custom thing makes it a no brainer for me , but that's just my opinion ofc

 

[Deezel177]

I've read and reread @flinkenick comparison:



So I guess the main difference would be that the 5 way is a bit warmer and smoother in the treble? I get the impression that the 5 way is darker, while the Phantom is closer to neutral on the scale between dark and bright? If the 5 way is less transparent, does that mean it has less separation? I'm also a bit worried that Nick mentioned the Universal Phantom version is more "open" than the Custom, while the Custom is more "musical" - I'm kind of worried the custom Phantom will be a bit too closed together or muddled. I would prefer open to "musical".

I should also mention that I currently own an SEM-9, which I really like. I agree with the consensus on it that it is very precise, fast, with an intimate soundstage and musical tuning. But I want something that is a custom fit for isolation reasons, and I also feel timbre is kind of missing on some instruments. Bass seems to get in the way sometimes, especially on piano and vocals depending on the track. I think the "musical" tuning can some kind cover up what I want to hear.

It may also be the case that the SEM9 doesn't match my genres well. I listen to lots of jazz ensembles (John Coltrane, Art Pepper) and lots of female vocalists, with occasional electric guitars / fusion. I also listen to a lot of orchestras like Tchaikovsky. My favorite artist right now is Cecile Mclorin Salvant - an unbelievable female vocalist you should listen to if you haven't heard of her.

Based on my conversations with Nic about the Phantom's tuning, it is indeed less dark and un-articulate compared to the SE5U. I believe the openness he's referring to between the custom an the universal is a phenomenon I've experienced multiple times before with demo units. There's more articulation and attack, but at the cost of note resolution and completeness. Instruments may sound cleaner, but all they really are are slightly thinner with less harmonic energy (usually in the lower-mids). Now, I've heard the Aeon Flow Closed and it's definitely neutral-sounding. What you may be missing from the Phantom would be upper-treble presence. The Aeon Flow Open has a similarly balanced midrange, but it has presence in the upper-treble that introduces sparkle and a textured gleam to vocals and instruments alike. The Phantom - like the SE5U (but not to such a degree) - has a linear upper-treble that favours ease, smoothness and naturalness instead of articulation. So, you'll probably find the Phantom to have less bite than you'd like. With the right cable pairing (and tip pairing in universal form), you can certainly bring that upper-treble out, but maybe not to the degree of the Aeon Flow. If you're in the US, I'm sure you can contact Empire Ears about sending you a demo so you could hear it for yourself. Alternatively, If you don't mind your midrange a bit recessed, I think the JHAudio JH13v2 would be a good IEM counterpart to the Aeon Flow Closed.

 

[tim0chan]

I have been on a quest to find an IEM that comes close to the sound signature of my beloved Mr Speakers Aeon Closed back. What I love about these planar magnetic headphones is that they have extremely high resolution while having a gorgeous timbre. They have an almost dead neutral tuning that measures very close to the Harmon target response curve, and effortless separation that makes every instrument sound perfect and emotional to me. However I cannot wear them in public without looking like princess leia.

I was about to buy the SE5 Ultimate, having sent in impressions and everything (still in the mail so I haven't paid yet), until I came across the EE Phantom... I am now I'm thinking the Phantom might be a bit better for what I'm looking for. It would also be a lot nicer that it is a US company because dealing with overseas shipping / customs has the potential to be a nightmare. If anyone could help I would really appreciate it.

I found that the empire ears Spartans have almost the exact same sound.....

 

[flinkenick]

I've read and reread @flinkenick comparison:



So I guess the main difference would be that the 5 way is a bit warmer and smoother in the treble? I get the impression that the 5 way is darker, while the Phantom is closer to neutral on the scale between dark and bright? If the 5 way is less transparent, does that mean it has less separation? I'm also a bit worried that Nick mentioned the Universal Phantom version is more "open" than the Custom, while the Custom is more "musical" - I'm kind of worried the custom Phantom will be a bit too closed together or muddled. I would prefer open to "musical".

I should also mention that I currently own an SEM-9, which I really like. I agree with the consensus on it that it is very precise, fast, with an intimate soundstage and musical tuning. But I want something that is a custom fit for isolation reasons, and I also feel timbre is kind of missing on some instruments. Bass seems to get in the way sometimes, especially on piano and vocals depending on the track. I think the "musical" tuning can some kind cover up what I want to hear.

It may also be the case that the SEM9 doesn't match my genres well. I listen to lots of jazz ensembles (John Coltrane, Art Pepper) and lots of female vocalists, with occasional electric guitars / fusion. I also listen to a lot of orchestras like Tchaikovsky. My favorite artist right now is Cecile Mclorin Salvant - an unbelievable female vocalist you should listen to if you haven't heard of her.

Howdy, Phantom and 5-Way share some general characteristics throughout their presentation. Both have a stage that is fairly even in dimensions, although they can display variation in both their dimensions and transparency based on the track. They both have a dense midrange with a natural vocal reproduction, and a warmer tone focused on timbre. The main differences is the Phantom's vocals are more forward, and a bit thicker. The 5-Way's vocal placement is a bit more neutral by comparison. In addition, it's treble is smoother. As a result, the Phantom sounds a bit more transparent and airier, where the 5-Way sounds a bit more 'romantic'. But in both cases, their tone is warmer than neutral, and people that prefer more upfront detail might find them lacking or 'too dark'. In terms of separation, I would say they are on par.

There are slight differences between the universal and custom Phantom, although they can mostly be related to the tip selection of the uni. In general, the custom sounds a bit thicker, and most similar to the spiral dots. With the uni you can create a slightly more neutral tone and open sound, when using Ortofon tips for instance. Spinfits will have a similar effect, but result in a brighter and leaner signature, that can be more prone to sibilance based on the pairing. I would say both the uni and custom have advantages, and which weighs more really comes down to practical preferences, more than their actual differences. For people that struggle to get a proper fit with universals or prefer the fit of customs, that will be the more obvious option. The uni offers some flexibility in tip selection and ease of purchase.

The S-EM9 indeed has a musical tuning with nice bass, and excellent separation despite the relatively confined stage. The lower treble is somewhat of a highlight within the signature, as it adds some pace and precision. But as a result, the timbre is not particularly natural. The S-EM9 was a long-time favorite, but I mainly used it for electronic genres so I can see why it might be a mismatch based on the genres you describe. When it comes to bass specifically, the Phantom does not have less bass than S-EM9, so I don't know how this would affect your preference if the bass itself is too rich in quantity. However, the Phantoms midrange is more forward, and its timbre more accurate.

 

[flinkenick]

Thank you, it has pleased me quite often.

The white gold ring brings some control to the sound, even though it sometimes feels a little constricted.

Yes I have heard that the right pairing is important to drive it properly. From your experience, would you say the hand is less pleasing after adding the gold ring, or more? I have been considering the upgrade, but am concerned about diminished returns.