[dongster]

i have seen some big discrepancies about the terms used between audiophiles and mixer/masters.
i first noticed this when i visited gearslutz reading about studio monitors
often audiophiles add a emotional connotation to the words hinting to some personal preferences.
quite interesting

more detail: http://mymixengineer.com/eqing-drums-cheat-sheet/

one about about manipulation of frequencies to create certain effects:
cool example:
vocals: Get An Open Sound:

• Apply a gentle boost above 6KHz using a shelving filter.

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Mixing_and_Mastering/Bass_Mixdown

 

[Overkill Red]

very interesting, ive seen a lot of people mean lacking base and sometimes too bright with "dry"

what does sparkle mean to u? slightly more treble than neutral or? like a sweet spot btw neutral and harsh?

IME sparkle is linked very strongly to treble extension and slightly to treble prominence. Taking cymbals for example, if an IEM has good treble extension the cymbal hit will ring long and clear, which gives it that shimmering effect. If there isn't much sparkle then the cymbal will just make a "shing" sound instead of a "shiiiinnng" (lol).

Darker sounding IEMs can still have sparkly treble, just that it'll be harder to hear.

IMHO, 2cents, pinch of salt...

 

[PinkyPowers]

very interesting, ive seen a lot of people mean lacking base and sometimes too bright with "dry"

what does sparkle mean to u? slightly more treble than neutral or? like a sweet spot btw neutral and harsh?

I've heard headphones, like the HD800, that have quite bit of treble, but it never "sparkles". I suspect sparkle is achieved via a very specific peak, not just general treble elevation.

And warmth/richness is achieved through bass, particularly mid-bass. So dry headphones would have less mid-bass than a richer transducer.

I quite like the HD800, and I find it has great bass in its own right. I would not agree with those who call it bass-light. But it does have a drier tone. My LCD-2, in comparison, is down-right wet-sounding. lol. Very rich, and sparkly treble. Yet everyone knows the HD800 has more treble than any Audeze. Still, one sparkles and one does not.

I can't describe the phenomenon of "sparkle". That word really says it all. When you hear it for yourself, you'll understand. You'll go, "Oh, that does sparkle!"

 

[dongster]

I've heard headphones, like the HD800, that have quite bit of treble, but it never "sparkles". I suspect sparkle is achieved via a very specific peak, not just general treble elevation.

And warmth/richness is achieved through bass, particularly mid-bass. So dry headphones would have less mid-bass than a richer transducer.

I quite like the HD800, and I find it has great bass in its own right. I would not agree with those who call it bass-light. But it does have a drier tone. My LCD-2, in comparison, is down-right wet-sounding. lol. Very rich, and sparkly treble. Yet everyone knows the HD800 has more treble than any Audeze. Still, one sparkles and one does not.

I can't describe the phenomenon of "sparkle". That word really says it all. When you hear it for yourself, you'll understand. You'll go, "Oh, that does sparkle!"

do you think it matters where the treble peak is located? i know for mixing the practice is to add between 8/9-15khz for sparkle and air
interesting... if the "specific peak" theory is the case, then phones with smooth FR including Harman curve would inherently have no sparkle.
implying sparkle is a coloration, and extra preference-based quality, which makes sense as well since perhaps sparkle should originate from the audio file.

hard for me to know what a concept such as "sparkle" actually is, im sure ive heard headphones that are sparkly before, having owned and auditioned quite a number of units, but what i hear is what i hear. hard to isolate and identify sparkle quality

 

[EagleWings]

very interesting, ive seen a lot of people mean lacking base and sometimes too bright with "dry"

what does sparkle mean to u? slightly more treble than neutral or? like a sweet spot btw neutral and harsh?

Dry is a term used to describe the midrange and you are on the right track. Sometimes, a linear bass may not always be sufficient to provide the fullness, the midrange needs.

Sparkle is most often a result of a peak in the treble region and more particularly in the 8-12kHz region. A treble could be linear for the most part and have a single peak that can provide the sparkle. This sparkle would definitely add some brightness putting the treble of the iem brighter than neutral.

But brightness can also be a result of the whole treble or part of the treble region having higher energy relative to the rest of the spectrum and still NOT have any sparkle.

All sparkles are bright to an extent. But not all brightness are sparkly.

 

[dongster]

Dry is a term used to describe the midrange and you are on the right track. Sometimes, a linear bass may not always be sufficient to provide the fullness, the midrange needs.

Sparkle is most often a result of a peak in the treble region and more parti in the 7-11kHz region. A treble could be linear for the most part and have a single peak that can provide the sparkle. This sparkle would definitely add some brightness putting the treble of the iem brighter than neutral.

But brightness can also be a result of the whole treble or part of the treble region having higher energy relative to the rest of the spectrum and still NOT have any sparkle.

All sparkles are bright to an extent. But not all brightness are sparkly.

i see~~fascinating
then by definition sparkles from headphone is colored, right? where as if its neutral it would only reproduce sparkles if the recording contains sparkles

 

[Deezel177]

i see~~fascinating
then by definition sparkles from headphone is colored, right? where as if its neutral it would only reproduce sparkles if the recording contains sparkles

To my ears, sparkle can exist in both uncoloured and coloured transducers; it's simply a matter of how well the sparkle rings out. I usually equate sparkle more to treble decay and extension rather than actual treble quantity. IMO, a peak in the upper frequencies will determine how loud the initial transient is and, in some cases at around 8-15 kHz, it will determine the brightness of and even add harshness to the tone of the recording as well. However, a peak there won't necessarily determine how much of a "sparkle" there is, because sparkle is dependent on how long the treble notes ring, and how much air they have in the mix to do so. I think the reason why a lifted treble sounds like extra sparkle is it makes the point of initial decay higher, e.g. a hi-hat hit has an initial transient at 6-8 kHz of -6dB and then its fundamentals ring and decay until it reaches -(infinity) dB. If a 3dB peak is present at 6-8 kHz, the initial hit would be -3 dB, and so the fundamentals, even though its frequency region remains the same, sounds like it's falling from a higher cliff, therefore presenting the illusion of sparkle. Just my two cents

 

[SilverEars]

I find that you can hear better details and clarity with iems.

I take this statement back. I heard the Mr Speakers Ether flow today. Wow. Now that's an headphone. It's objectively great. There you have it.

One headphones objectively good is surely the STAX 009. But, majority of the headphones I find mainly faults.

 

[PinkyPowers]

i see~~fascinating
then by definition sparkles from headphone is colored, right? where as if its neutral it would only reproduce sparkles if the recording contains sparkles

Or that peak which gives sparkle could accurately represent how it should sound with room acoustics.

The Harmon curve does not forbid treble peaks. Hell, what headphone doesn't have serious hills and valleys passed the 2K mark? That's the problem with headphones. They don't act exactly right. But each manufacturer does the best they can.

 

[dongster]

To my ears, sparkle can exist in both uncoloured and coloured transducers; it's simply a matter of how well the sparkle rings out. I usually equate sparkle more to treble decay and extension rather than actual treble quantity. IMO, a peak in the upper frequencies will determine how loud the initial transient is and, in some cases at around 8-15 kHz, it will determine the brightness of and even add harshness to the tone of the recording as well. However, a peak there won't necessarily determine how much of a "sparkle" there is, because sparkle is dependent on how long the treble notes ring, and how much air they have in the mix to do so. I think the reason why a lifted treble sounds like extra sparkle is it makes the point of initial decay higher, e.g. a hi-hat hit has an initial transient at 6-8 kHz of -6dB and then its fundamentals ring and decay until it reaches -(infinity) dB. If a 3dB peak is present at 6-8 kHz, the initial hit would be -3 dB, and so the fundamentals, even though its frequency region remains the same, sounds like it's falling from a higher cliff, therefore presenting the illusion of sparkle. Just my two cents

do you think that decay effect is from what was recorded ie the ringing of a cycle or a held down piano key
or do you think its due to the decay of a frequency from transducer ie waterfall plots?

 

[SilverEars]

i have seen some big discrepancies about the terms used between audiophiles and mixer/masters.
i first noticed this when i visited gearslutz reading about studio monitors
often audiophiles add a emotional connotation to the words hinting to some personal preferences.
quite interesting

more detail: http://mymixengineer.com/eqing-drums-cheat-sheet/

Certain stuff I agree with. Sparkle is up there past the 10k. Bright I agree with. Harsh for me is in the area of bright, but in the lower region where sharp is. Warm I can understand as it's close to mids and add body to the sound or ambiant effect.

I don't understand what air, muddy, boxy means. Hollow I can understand.

 

[dongster]

Or that peak which gives sparkle could accurately represent how it should sound with room acoustics.

The Harmon curve does not forbid treble peaks. Hell, what headphone doesn't have serious hills and valleys passed the 2K mark? That's the problem with headphones. They don't act exactly right. But each manufacturer does the best they can.

interesting thought about the room acoustic, didnt consider that angle.

but unless im missing something here, its not true about Harman allowing peaks and all headphones have "hills and valleys" right? isnt Harman by definition like the first picture and smooth? and notably the DUNU Titan 1 is super close to Harman and smooth.

and doesnt plenty of products produce smooth curve after 2k like
dunu titan 1

etymotic er4XR

VE8

 

[Deezel177]

do you think that decay effect is from what was recorded ie the ringing of a cycle or a held down piano key
or do you think its due to the decay of a frequency from transducer ie waterfall plots?

It's definitely in the recording; a cymbal doesn't ring forever, nor do reverberations from a piano key. Though, how much extension a transducer has available for a note to decay is definitely a factor. If, for example, a transducer extends to 20 kHz with a flat response from 6-20 kHz, then the hi-hat hit in my previous post will decay naturally until the point of inaudibility. On the other hand, if the treble begins to roll off at about 8-10 kHz, then the hi-hat hit won't have the chance to ring out, and it'll sound like it stops abruptly with little weight to the fundamental.

 

[SilverEars]

interesting thought about the room acoustic, didnt consider that angle.

but unless im missing something here, its not true about Harman allowing peaks and all headphones have "hills and valleys" right? isnt Harman by definition like the first picture and smooth? and notably the DUNU Titan 1 is super close to Harman and smooth.

and doesnt plenty of products produce smooth curve after 2k like
dunu titan 1

I've heard the Titan 1, and the response is not really ideal if Harmon curve is. The sparkle has discontinuity with the rest of the spectrum like inverse step function. 3 is more balanced out. Quite disappointing after all the hype it went through.

 

[dongster]

Certain stuff I agree with. Sparkle is up there past the 10k. Bright I agree with. Harsh for me is in the area of bright, but in the lower region where sharp is. Warm I can understand as it's close to mids and add body to the sound or ambiant effect.

I don't understand what air, muddy, boxy means. Hollow I can understand.

i think it could be that u dont like too much energy in what mixers define as bright, and "dont like"=harsh for u
but u see, thats exactly why this topic is actually quite significant, particularly in reviews. like the shower thought "what we all call green could be perceived as different colors"