[davidmolliere]

@riverground swears I'll love the Stealth, that's why I have yet to try it even thoufg our local store has a demo.
I have this weird thing about spending flagship prices on headphones even though I'd turn around and not bat an eye at a pair of iems that I like.

Yeah I am like you, but since I have had M17 and desktop like portable the idea flourished

iBasso DX300 Max has also entered the chat. Drives my ZMF VC awesomely, actually semi-comparable to the Feliks Echo and ZMF Pendant desktop amps. Made me comfortable with selling those to keep the Max while I managed to save up again to buy another desktop amp, knowing that it was driving them to their actual (yet obviously not summit-fi-desktop-amp-level) potential.

I know several Stealth owner confirming M17 does a great job driving Stealth, and it has a little bit more power than DX300 Max so it should be safe
Especially in desktop mode which will be my main use for the Stealth.

Portable sources have come a long long way, which in turn will make headphones much more accessible - I feel like having a grounded, desktop-like setup is a dealbreaker for a large part of the community, and while you still probably can't reach 100% performance off a DAP or a portable amp, I can comfortably say the same about IEMs - no DAP can do what my MHA150 can do paired with any set of IEMs, I remember plugging the Noir in and being absolutely blown away by the bass quality - nothing portable has ever been able to deliver that

Well it sounds logical that a 7K worth setup outperforms a portable, but as you say with diablo you can get a quite decent setup at an affordable price so it's good news for everyone

Might get a iFi Audio Pro iDSD down the line too...

 

[fuhransahis]

Portable sources have come a long long way, which in turn will make headphones much more accessible - I feel like having a grounded, desktop-like setup is a dealbreaker for a large part of the community, and while you still probably can't reach 100% performance off a DAP or a portable amp, I can comfortably say the same about IEMs - no DAP can do what my MHA150 can do paired with any set of IEMs, I remember plugging the Noir in and being absolutely blown away by the bass quality - nothing portable has ever been able to deliver that

For sure - most gear of course scales up in performance with better amps and sources, and desktop amps in general will usually outperform a DAP"s amp stage due to pure form factor alone, all else being equal in that you're using quality gear all around.

The difference comes with gear that's naturally harder to drive - while the Noir scales with a source like the MHA150, I doubt you feel that you're flat-out driving it improperly from a DAP.

With something like the VC and its high impedance, on an amp like the Echo (price not everything but for illustrative purposes, it sits at sub $1k), drives it very well; an amp like the Pendant ($2k) drives it to Holy Fckn Sht levels.

The DX300 (not Max) for example, is a high powered DAP yet to me, it only drives to about 50% of what the VC can do. Granted there is subjectivity here as with everything else in this hobby, especially since others feel the VCs are driven better by many DAPs than I do, but to me they just flat out fall short of what they can truly do.

Not talking the 1% gains we constantly seek here, I mean that while volume gets plenty loud, the staging, dynamics, imaging and all else take such a huge hit to me that it becomes a pure waste of money to have $3k cans and only hear half of what they can do, just cause if I'm tying myself to the most portable solution (not transportable or stacks). It just ain't gonna cut it.

At that point I'd be better off sticking with IEMs or easier to drive cans... for my preferences, and I can pocket the change (lol yeah right - that change is going straight to the Classifieds section).

And that's where IEMs come in - they are clearly targeted for maximum portability factor and while they still scale with desktop sources, for the most part you can reach most or at least a very large part of their potential.with DAPs, dongles, and so on.

I know several Stealth owner confirming M17 does a great job driving Stealth, and it has a little bit more power than DX300 Max so it should be safe
Especially in desktop mode which will be my main use for the Stealth.

Yep!

The M17 does seem to have more power on paper and I think the Stealth is also very likely harder to drive. While ZMFs have high impedance they also are more sensitive at 99 db/mw. The Stealth has a low impedance of 23ohm but a sensitivity of 87db/mw or so.

All of the above being said... as usual... what matters at the end of the day is that you enoy it

(Whispers: you should still try out the Stealth on a high end amp just to see what it can do... for science and curiosity.... I'm sure the M17 will be just... fine... he he he)

 

[davidmolliere]

The M17 does seem to have more power on paper and I think the Stealth is also very likely harder to drive. While ZMFs have high impedance they also are more sensitive at 99 db/mw. The Stealth has a low impedance of 23ohm but a sensitivity of 87db/mw or so.

All of the above being said... as usual... what matters at the end of the day is that you enoy it

(Whispers: you should still try out the Stealth on a high end amp just to see what it can do... for science and curiosity.... I'm sure the M17 will be just... fine... he he he)

Yeah it's most definitely what will end up happening obviously
In the meantime from all accounts I am pretty sure I'll love the Stealth on M17

 

[gLer]

At that point I'd be better off sticking with IEMs or easier to drive cans... for my preferences, and I can pocket the change (lol yeah right - that change is going straight to the Classifieds section).

And that's where IEMs come in - they are clearly targeted for maximum portability factor and while they still scale with desktop sources, for the most part you can reach most or at least a very large part of their potential.with DAPs, dongles, and so on.

Exactly this, and why I switched from high-end headphones to high-end IEMs when I list patience (and use case) with desktop sources. To keep them would mean driving them with DAPs, and while that's fine, you're wasting half of their potential.

If I do get back into high-end headphones it'll be strictly a headphone designed to be driven to off portable sources, and I can only think of a small handful of those (Empyrean, Elite, Clear, Z1R come to mind).

 

[davidmolliere]

Exactly this, and why I switched from high-end headphones to high-end IEMs when I list patience (and use case) with desktop sources. To keep them would mean driving them with DAPs, and while that's fine, you're wasting half of their potential. If I do get back into high-end headphones it'll be strictly a headphone designed to be driven to off portable sources, and I can only think of a small handful of those (Empyrean, Elite, Clear, Z1R come to mind).

Aware of this, but honestly M17 redefines things a bit for me although I am sure with higher end destkop stuff things can go further it's quite close to very decent setups which was a surprise to a lot of people that took the leap on M17 (and own said quite good desktop setups). Stealth is on the harder to drive part of the scale sure but between the power rating (quite a bit over Max) and the voltage swing of M17 in desktop mode I don't think it would be as bad as half of the potential... we'll see!

 

[gLer]

Aware of this, but honestly M17 redefines things a bit for me although I am sure with higher end destkop stuff things can go further it's quite close to very decent setups which was a surprise to a lot of people that took the leap on M17 (and own said quite good desktop setups). Stealth is on the harder to drive part of the scale sure but between the power rating (quite a bit over Max) and the voltage swing of M17 in desktop mode I don't think it would be as bad as half of the potential... we'll see!

The M17 definitely looks the part, at least from a power perspective. But if I'm spending $2000 on the M17, which will mainly be used a desktop device, I may as well spend a bit more and get something like the Pro iDSD. Different use case, no battery or 'transportability', but for me that would be a better investment for the money.

 

[davidmolliere]

The M17 definitely looks the part, at least from a power perspective. But if I'm spending $2000 on the M17, which will mainly be used a desktop device, I may as well spend a bit more and get something like the Pro iDSD. Different use case, no battery or 'transportability', but for me that would be a better investment for the money.

Well, I also use M17 not in desktop mode so it's kinda best of both worlds for my use case.
This being said adding Pro iDSD is something I have thought about for a long long time... but it will be like 25% of my listening time so less of a return on investment.

We'll certainly do a comparison with @lafeuill M17/Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN too since he has all three, this should be interesting.

 

[gLer]

Well, I also use M17 not in desktop mode so it's kinda best of both worlds for my use case.
This being said adding Pro iDSD is something I have thought about for a long long time... but it will be like 25% of my listening time so less of a return on investment.

We'll certainly do a comparison with @lafeuill M17/Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN too since he has all three, this should be interesting.

That would be fantastic. Look forward to that comparison. If the M17 can match the SQ of the iDSD that would be quite something.

 

[subguy812]

There are very few flagship headphones that are just as comfortable on portable sources as they are on desktop stacks. Stealth is one of them. Meze and Sony too. But you really don't want to run LCDs, Sennheisers, Hifimans or ZMFs off a DAP, even if you can get them loud enough.

D9200

 

[gLer]

D9200

Yeah, forgot about that one. Definitely in the mix.

 

[davidmolliere]

That would be fantastic. Look forward to that comparison. If the M17 can match the SQ of the iDSD that would be quite something.

I don't think it would, I have fond memories of that audition plus iDSD has tubes so it's a NC.
But given the price tag and form factor I think M17 will fare pretty well.

3 days ago we had a meetup in Paris, it was quite epic for people to discover M17... people were so... surprised

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I don't think it would, I have fond memories of that audition plus iDSD has tubes so it's a NC.
But given the price tag and form factor I think M17 will fare pretty well.

3 days ago we had a meetup in Paris, it was quite epic for people to discover M17... people were so... surprised

How does the M17 compare to the Sony DMP Z1? I was blown away by the DMP when I heard it.

 

[davidmolliere]

How does the M17 compare to the Sony DMP Z1? I was blown away by the DMP when I heard it.

I wouldn't know never checked DMP Z1 out and it's a different league I think so I would expect it's still another class...

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I wouldn't know never checked DMP Z1 out and it's a different league I think so I would expect it's still another class...

Sorry, I didn't know anything about the M17. The way you were describing it reminded me of the DMP so I thought they were comparable. Is it more like a DX220/DX300 Max in terms of use case?

 

[davidmolliere]

Sorry, I didn't know anything about the M17. The way you were describing it reminded me of the DMP so I thought they were comparable. Is it more like a DX220/DX300 Max in terms of use case?

Yes with the difference that M17 can do a DC powered desktop mode providing even more juice than Max (also a smoother and meatier signature than DX220 Max which I owned and sold...)

Enhanced over ear mode is only DC (12V/3A) Powered

And some nice - unheard of in a DAP - components as well

FiiO really stretched things to catch up a bit with the competition... which from all accounts of people like me who came in curious but doubtful seems to have paid off and resulted in something special that fits a specific use case.