[aaf evo]

If you wanna hear some crazy BA bass you have to check out the QDC V14… those things SLAM. Treble is though

 

[Deezel177]

I had always thought that whatever cable was used on a set, it was also used in the designer’s tuning of the set, hence my earlier thought about this. I have zero background and about the same understanding of the Pro side of the business, so thank you for detailing what goes on with touring musicians, and it certainly explains why VE, 64 Audio, and others use fairly inexpensive stock cables.

I do wonder, though, with the success that IEMs like the Traillii and Mason FS are seeing on the market with included high quality cables, whether some others will follow suit to remain competitive in the top end of the market.

Actually, as I think about it, EE was an early adoptee of this method with the Stormbreaker, and perhaps the success of the Odin was the impetus for others.

EE were definitely one of the first to do it in the West, but I'd like to think the origins of the package deal idea originated in the East, especially with companies like Effect Audio. I can recall the Vision Ears VE6XC Silver Edition, which was a limited-edition VE6XC with Effect Audio internal wiring and an included Effect Audio cable. The Jomo Audio Genesis also comes to mind, which came with Effect Audio's flagship Mars and was priced at an - at the time - eye-watering $2500. Then, there was the Empire Ears Arthur (a Zeus-XIV with Effect's internal wiring) with the Excalibur cable, as well as the Empire Ears Merlin (a Spartan-IV with Effect's internal wiring) with the Rowan cable.

PW Audio's efforts here began in collaboration with their Singaporean dealer, Music Sanctuary, who - arguably - are also the sole reason their 1960s cable is as popular and mythic as it is today. Their collaboration was then called Project K, and, essentially, it was gonna be an entire line of IEMs from different brands on Music Sanctuary's roster, all equipped with PW internal wiring and packaged with a high-end PW cable. The debut model of this line-up was the Soundwriter, which was a 64 Audio A18t with PW wiring and a specially-shielded-and-soldered 4-wire 1960s. Unfortunately, due to a variety of reasons, the project ended up shelved, and the only remnants of it are a few apex-equipped and non-apex-equipped Soundwriters out in the wild, along with a now-deleted review of it from Nic on THL.

From there, I believe it was Hong Kong and Taiwan who started packaging Eura Audio and Han Sound Audio cables with their region-exclusive Vision Ears IEMs. But, that was always just a regional thing, and the idea didn't pick up again in the West until - you guessed it - EE came along with the Stormbreaker, and Oriolus and UM followed suit.

I'm more-than-likely missing a few key points here-and-there, but that's pretty much the gist of it.

As far as my thoughts on it, I think following that trend would only be a detriment to the market. As with everything, to me, the more options for the consumer, the better. Stripping that control away is the least ideal place to be, so I certainly hope it doesn't catch on. I think a much healthier way to be competitive is to match the performance of the likes of the Trailli at a much more accessible price point. Or, do so with the premium cable, then offer a lite option, as @aaf evo mentioned.

Hard to justify a $2,000 set like U12T supplied with such a disaster of a cable. Any $100.00 cable is better, do musicians really just live with that tangled up mess? They should have done better on that one. Imagining buying a bag of those cables all tangled up together, and being late to the stage.

By the time the musicians hit the stage, those cables would've already been unwound and plugged into their mic packs. You'd be surprised how vastly different priorities between an audiophile (or enthusiast) and a musician can be. With the former, listening is at the top of the list, so you optimise everything to cater to that. Whereas, on stage, your number-one thought is performing.

So, equipment-wise, the drummer would think about the sticks they're using, the position and tuning of their drums, the throne they're sitting on, etc., before they even begin to think about their in-ears or cable. On numerous occasions, I've seen drummers take an earpiece (or both) out mid-performance, because it helps them play, as unhealthy as I think it is. Then, once they are on stage, what's on top of their mind still likely isn't the suppleness of their monitor's cable. It's the song they're playing, the groove they have to hold onto, the tempo they have to maintain, what the other musicians are doing, so they can prepare for an appropriate fill, etc. And, all this applies to the singer, the bassist and everyone else on stage too.

All they're thinking about are what they need to get the job done; not to get the cleanest (or even the most comfortable) playback possible. Those can be luxuries for sure, especially for higher-profile artists with fancier promoters, more demanding tour riders, etc. But, it isn't as big a deal as as it is for the enthusiast. If that was the case, believe me, personal monitoring systems would sound a whole lot better than they do now.

On the other hand, though, this isn't an excuse for companies to completely botch their stock cables, either. Unless you cater specifically to musicians, there is an obligation to consider the enthusiasts to whom you're also selling your products. So, it's a fairly difficult balance these companies have to tread a lot of the times. I remember, when EE started offering Effect Audio cables with every one of their IEMs, one of the main concerns was the stock they'd have to keep for artists, who, as @mvvRAZ said, are more susceptible to abusing them; most times, simply as an inadvertent circumstance of jumping around and sweating on stage. So, all in all, I think all of this is fruit for thought for the consumer who may've assumed that companies simply skimp on the cable to save a buck. But, again, it isn't a get-out-of-jail card for brands to do so either.

 

[Hoegaardener70]

Ah but the question is - is the loss of bass texture (the Bird can slam better than you think) worth it with the Bird. Probably yes (but hey I’m not exactly planning on getting rid of the Odin’s...)

Well, here is someone who does not think the bird flies as sky high ....
https://www.headphones.com/communit...d-news/oriolus-traillii-review-the-caged-bird

 

[gLer]

I’ve had a bit of an “epiphany” lately. I’ve come to realize that iems that can draw me in on an “emotionally engaging” level will always just make the listening experience that much better to me.

For me the main IEMs that have achieved that for me are the Traillii, Erlkonig, Elysium, and Mason FS although on the latter the tuning isn’t quite there for my music tastes.

I still stand by what I said with the Annihilator being in the top 3 IEMs I have heard but I am starting to realize that is sort of where it ends for me. As good as it sounds it just doesn’t quite draw me in to the music so I find my listening sessions to be around 30 mins to 1 hour max now whereas with something like the Traillii or Erlkonig I can belt out a 6 hour session with no issues.

I don’t necessarily know either what draws me in to the music more on the Traillii versus something like the Annihilator but the more I hear different gear the more I am starting to realize it is an invaluable aspect of listening to music for me.

Spot on. That's one of the reasons I've pretty much stopped looking at different IEMs since first hearing the IE 900 and realising you don't need all the technical bells and whistles to get TOTL life-like sound that's instantly more enjoyable to listen to for longer than those impressive but ultimately flawed technical monsters I previously considered 'endgame'.

Wow that's a long sentence! But...like you say, to put my finger on what constitutes an 'emotional connection' is a whole different story. I know I need DD bass, with Traillii the only non-DD bass I've heard that's at least passable. I know I need a fairly wide stage. And organic rather than dry or thin vocals. But these are just puzzle pieces. You need the whole to be greater than the parts. Ultimately I know I'm listening to something special when I'm thinking less about the IEM and more about the music.

Well, here is someone who does not think the bird flies as sky high ....
https://www.headphones.com/communit...d-news/oriolus-traillii-review-the-caged-bird

Don't worry, Precog has been issued with a first and final warning. Next misstep - excommunication.

 

[aaf evo]

Spot on. That's one of the reasons I've pretty much stopped looking at different IEMs since first hearing the IE 900 and realising you don't need all the technical bells and whistles to get TOTL life-like sound that's instantly more enjoyable to listen to for longer than those impressive but ultimately flawed technical monsters I previously considered 'endgame'.

Wow that's a long sentence! But...like you say, to put my finger on what constitutes an 'emotional connection' is a whole different story. I know I need DD bass, with Traillii the only non-DD bass I've heard that's at least passable. I know I need a fairly wide stage. And organic rather than dry or thin vocals. But these are just puzzle pieces. You need the whole to be greater than the parts. Ultimately I know I'm listening to something special when I'm thinking less about the IEM and more about the music.

Don't worry, Precog has been issued with a first and final warning. Next misstep - excommunication.

Yep. I think not having the Traillii for the past week or so has really opened my eyes to that. Again, I fully understand it may not have the best bass or best yadda yadda but the sum of all parts and the ability to draw me into the music is priceless and irreplaceable to me. Definitely can’t wait to discover more gear that resonates with me on that level.

I am fully expecting the Elysian X tonality to be incredible but if I can’t get that same draw into the music that I get with the Traillii then we shall see what happens

Ugh, I miss that IE900 bass too. Also on a side note I have asked for a demo of the MMR Balmung from musicteck to pass some time until my X arrives. No MMR IEMs have clicked with me yet so here’s to hoping this one is different!

 

[tawmizzzz]

Well, here is someone who does not think the bird flies as sky high ....
https://www.headphones.com/communit...d-news/oriolus-traillii-review-the-caged-bird

Don't worry, Precog has been issued with a first and final warning. Next misstep - excommunication.

Bird Flock-Suckers, assemble!!


I love Odin's bass, but I do prefer the impact (midbass warmth) of T versus Odin. There's no doubt I am anxiously waiting for EE to unleash those Dual W9+s in a dirty, yet technical-as-hell way.

 

[snapandslide]

Well, here is someone who does not think the bird flies as sky high ....
https://www.headphones.com/communit...d-news/oriolus-traillii-review-the-caged-bird

Ha yep precog has been warned

Having only got the Bird recently I ‘get’ where precog is coming from in his review. The only thing I strongly disagree about is the treble. I think it’s pretty damn good.

You’re paying for the tuning and the incredible coherency and how that gives such a stage and separation. And as he does note - that sum of all parts is what you pay for.

If it doesn’t emotionally move him then it will never be worth it. But let’s not kid ourselves it’s crazy expensive. But if you can afford to try it. You should.

 

[aaf evo]

Bird Flock-Suckers, assemble!!


I love Odin's bass, but I do prefer the impact (midbass warmth) of T versus Odin. There's no doubt I am anxiously waiting for EE to unleash those Dual W9+s in a dirty, yet technical-as-hell way.

Dude… a LOT of us are waiting for those W9+ drivers to be unleashed

 

[Scubadevils]

Spot on. That's one of the reasons I've pretty much stopped looking at different IEMs since first hearing the IE 900 and realising you don't need all the technical bells and whistles to get TOTL life-like sound that's instantly more enjoyable to listen to for longer than those impressive but ultimately flawed technical monsters I previously considered 'endgame'.

Wow that's a long sentence! But...like you say, to put my finger on what constitutes an 'emotional connection' is a whole different story. I know I need DD bass, with Traillii the only non-DD bass I've heard that's at least passable. I know I need a fairly wide stage. And organic rather than dry or thin vocals. But these are just puzzle pieces. You need the whole to be greater than the parts. Ultimately I know I'm listening to something special when I'm thinking less about the IEM and more about the music.

Don't worry, Precog has been issued with a first and final warning. Next misstep - excommunication.

It's the emotional connection with IE900 that really does it for me - it's ability to make me smile, actually feel the enjoyment of the music. I still really appreciate MEST MKII on the other hand but it absolutely cannot give me that same connection and pleasure as IE900. I read about coherence in various reviews over the last few months and I feel like I now understand what that means and it's significance in my listening preferences.

My itch to try other IEMs is back but I think it will be a real challenge to find something I enjoy as much as the IE900. On the hunt regardless

 

[Deezel177]

Spot on. That's one of the reasons I've pretty much stopped looking at different IEMs since first hearing the IE 900 and realising you don't need all the technical bells and whistles to get TOTL life-like sound that's instantly more enjoyable to listen to for longer than those impressive but ultimately flawed technical monsters I previously considered 'endgame'.

Wow that's a long sentence! But...like you say, to put my finger on what constitutes an 'emotional connection' is a whole different story. I know I need DD bass, with Traillii the only non-DD bass I've heard that's at least passable. I know I need a fairly wide stage. And organic rather than dry or thin vocals. But these are just puzzle pieces. You need the whole to be greater than the parts. Ultimately I know I'm listening to something special when I'm thinking less about the IEM and more about the music.

Don't worry, Precog has been issued with a first and final warning. Next misstep - excommunication.

Yep. I think not having the Traillii for the past week or so has really opened my eyes to that. Again, I fully understand it may not have the best bass or best yadda yadda but the sum of all parts and the ability to draw me into the music is priceless and irreplaceable to me. Definitely can’t wait to discover more gear that resonates with me on that level.

I am fully expecting the Elysian X tonality to be incredible but if I can’t get that same draw into the music that I get with the Traillii then we shall see what happens

Ugh, I miss that IE900 bass too. Also on a side note I have asked for a demo of the MMR Balmung from musicteck to pass some time until my X arrives. No MMR IEMs have clicked with me yet so here’s to hoping this one is different!

This is what keeps pulling me back to an IEM like Vision Ears' EVE20. It doesn't best any category technically, but there's a unique vividness and texture to it that can't be replicated by anything else in my collection. The same goes for their VE7. I'm desperately calling for the Jolene's dual-DD bass the whole time they're in my ears, but the VE7's top-to-bottom uniformity or coherence (likely because of its full-BA set-up) is a marvel all on its own. There surely are limits to it, though. The Moondrop Starfield is an IEM whose timbre I rather like, but its dynamics are too flat for me to ignore. Similarly, the A6t has one of my favourite tonalities in an IEM, but its average headroom sets in sooner or later as well. At the end of the day, though, it's similarly tone over technique for me, and I've yet to meet a person who says otherwise.

 

[aaf evo]

This is what keeps pulling me back to an IEM like Vision Ears' EVE20. It doesn't best any category technically, but there's a unique vividness and texture to it that can't be replicated by anything else in my collection. The same goes for their VE7. I'm desperately calling for the Jolene's dual-DD bass the whole time they're in my ears, but the VE7's top-to-bottom uniformity or coherence (likely because of its full-BA set-up) is a marvel all on its own. There surely are limits to it, though. The Moondrop Starfield is an IEM whose timbre I rather like, but its dynamics are too flat for me to ignore. Similarly, the A6t has one of my favourite tonalities in an IEM, but its average headroom sets in sooner or later as well. At the end of the day, though, it's similarly tone over technique for me, and I've yet to meet a person who says otherwise.

VE to me are masters of engagement. I cannot wait to see what they bring out this year. I was supposed to get a Jolene demo but they never got back to me (I was told a 1-2 week wait) and I had reached out to them over one month ago. Oh well, maybe I’ll send a follow up.

I agree, Mason FS was the prime example of that for me. As unique as the bone conduction driver is the tonality was not there for me to enjoy it as much as other IEMs. I can’t wait to see what they do with the Mentor FS next year, supposedly that’s their more “fun” tuned line?

 

[gLer]

It's the emotional connection with IE900 that really does it for me - it's ability to make me smile, actually feel the enjoyment of the music. I still really appreciate MEST MKII on the other hand but it absolutely cannot give me that same connection and pleasure as IE900. I read about coherence in various reviews over the last few months and I feel like I now understand what that means and it's significance in my listening preferences.

My itch to try other IEMs is back but I think it will be a real challenge to find something I enjoy as much as the IE900. On the hunt regardless

The only other IEMs I connect with are the other two I own - the BLON 03 and the Legend X. All three are actually more alike than different tonally, but technicalities pretty much follow the price curve. I would like to try something a little more sophisticated but with a similar tonality/tuning to the BLON, something inexpensive enough to throw in a bag or on trips but still good enough to enjoy for long sessions. The IE 900 makes me curious about the IE 300 maybe taking that mantle. We shall see.

 

[aaf evo]

The only other IEMs I connect with are the other two I own - the BLON 03 and the Legend X. All three are actually more alike than different tonally, but technicalities pretty much follow the price curve. I would like to try something a little more sophisticated but with a similar tonality/tuning to the BLON, something inexpensive enough to throw in a bag or on trips but still good enough to enjoy for long sessions. The IE 900 makes me curious about the IE 300 maybe taking that mantle. We shall see.

I have reached out to EE about maybe getting ANOTHER custom LX for the gym/fun home set. I’m not sure I can stomach the price difference between what I sold mine for and what I would have to pay to get another, the thought just upsets me those new continuum faceplates are damn sexy though.

 

[Scubadevils]

Something I've been intrigued about with IE900 is where it positions sound vs anything else I've owned - the sound feels centred inside my head, like finding that sweet spot when getting the right position with stereo speakers and the natural room soundstage. I assume this natural sounding delivery is part of a well designed single DD and that important coherency. It's quite incredible though when considering it's a 7mm DD versus the mix of drivers in MEST MKII for example.

 

[snapandslide]

It’s maybe a good discussion point - apart from DDs, which IEMs come close to the Traillii in terms of coherency?