flinkenick's 17 Flagship IEM Shootout Thread (and general high-end portable audio discussion)
Apr 13, 2021 at 5:26 PM Post #30,031 of 39,414
Originally posted on the dark side, over in the bird thread, but thought I'd share some brief thoughts on my experience with two of Lotoo's totl DAPs here as well. Enjoy!

Over the last couple of days, I had the privilege of testing two of Lotoo’s TOTL DAPs side-by-side: the LPGT and LPGT Ti.

These 2 daps were loaned to me by Andrew @MusicTeck.

When I purchased the Traillii from Andrew a few months ago, he provided top-notch customer service; even hand-delivering the bird to me when he was near my apartment. Since then, I’ve been interested in other stuff Andrew has (he carries a lot of awesome audio gear,) and he is always quick to respond, knowledgeable, and exceedingly friendly. I’m not fond of shilling products, but I’ll shill good service all day, everyday because it’s quite rare to find…thanks, Andrew.

So, without further ado, here’s my quick take on Lotoo’s LPGT and Ti (tested with the Oriolus Traillii)

Lotoo is known by many for its world-class reference sound, and after listening to both of these DAPs, I now know why. While both are undeniably great, I do have a favorite.

Both the LPGT and Ti have very slick interfaces: menus aren’t flashy, but both players are quick to load up, easy to use and navigate, and relatively intuitive overall. There’s also a nifty search function, accessible with a simple swipe down from the top of the screen. I didn’t know about this at first, but once I discovered it, it became second nature to access and seamlessly search for a specific song or artist.

The build of both players is incredibly solid and high-end; they each feel fantastic in the hand, albeit slightly chunky, but nothing crazy. Depending on how stylish you are (i.e. how tightly you wear your jeans,) the LPGT or Ti are technically pocketable, but they won't just slide in there like your phone. That said, I had no issues with holding or using either device with one hand. The Ti is noticeably heavier, coming in at a not insignificant 50+ grams more than the LPGT. The Ti tips the scales at 365 grams vs. the less weighty LPGT, which weighs just 311 grams. Whichever you choose, overall dimensions are identical, and the biggest difference from a build standpoint besides the weight, is that the Ti is a dark grey (it’s made of Ti, after all) and the LPGT is a slightly less cool-looking shade of black. And of course, both have the trademark Lotoo horizontal gold volume wheel up-top. Regardless of which one you choose, your interaction with either device will no doubt provide a similar high-end user experience both from a tactile and functionality perspective.

Now let’s get to the good stuff, sound.

The main thing I knew about Lotoo before listening to either player, was that Lotoo is known for its reference and neutral sound. After listening to the Traillii off the LPGT, I can only say that it is the most detailed and realistic sound I’ve ever heard from any non-speaker setup. Just the bird and the LPGT…that’s it. It’s hard to imagine things getting better, but if they can…bring it on.

For me, the LPGT strikingly and unquestionably lives up to its reputation in delivering a world-class, reference sound...the best I’ve heard to date. Staging is utterly massive on the traillii, (the biggest I’ve heard from the bird so far by a substantial margin,) and the sound is shockingly detailed, realistic, lifelike, and holographic. It is somehow a step above every other interpretation of “reference” sound I’ve heard so far, which really wows me.

I listened to orchestral music, some Dr. Chesky binaural recordings (wow), acoustic, jazz…everything sounded more real than I’ve ever heard from an iem setup before. From what I experienced with the lighter Lotoo, I feel its ultimate goal is to make you feel like you’re in the recording environment, hearing an utterly pure and unfiltered version of what happened during the capture. I say this, knowing that it is a wildly overused cliche. The difference in this case, however, is that I honestly feel like I’m using the expression less as a cliche, and more as an accurate way to describe what I hear…or maybe I’m just drawing out the cliche…but I really don’t think so…oh well.

With the LPGT > Bird combo, I feel I am hearing an ultra-totl synergy that I’ve simply never experienced before, and it is marvelous.

Despite the virtual obligation to first and foremost describe the LPGT’s sound as reference and neutral, which it very much is, the LPGT creates a similarly persuasive case that it is equally musical, engaging and exciting. In fact, for me it ranks as the most exciting, uncolored sound I’ve ever heard. Truly impressive.

So, that’s how I feel about the LPGT, what about the Ti?

Here’s where I’m sort of at a loss…when I listen to the LPGT, I hear a perfectly balanced, neutral, and utterly real-sounding portrayal of the music. With the Ti, it seems to me as if Lotoo is trying to create a "colored-neutral" version of the beloved tuning from the original LPGT; pushing vocals a bit closer, and ever-so-slightly boosting upper mids and treble. For some, this may be precisely what they're after: a slightly more energetic and forward version of the original LGPT sound.

For me, however, I feel that the tuning of the LPGT is damn near perfect. Each time I listened to the Ti, I couldn’t help but feel like the LPGT was beckoning me back with its impeccably fine-tuned balance and sense of realism. The takeaway being that if you’re looking for a sound that is slightly more energetic than reference, with a bit more pronounced vocals, and slightly more forward upper mids, and treble, the Ti may be the better choice.

In the end both of these players sound similarly stunning, but for me, I prefer the LPGT for its shocking purity, neutrality, staging, and utter sense of realism.

Bravo(o) Lotoo.
 
Apr 13, 2021 at 8:47 PM Post #30,032 of 39,414
My Anole V14 should be here soon, but I got to wondering since an anole is a lizard, is she safe with all the birdies flying around in this thread ... 😁
 
Apr 13, 2021 at 8:50 PM Post #30,033 of 39,414
My Anole V14 should be here soon, but I got to wondering since an anole is a lizard, is she safe with all the birdies flying around in this thread ... 😁
The birds are too busy singing to eat.
No worries.
 
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Apr 13, 2021 at 8:54 PM Post #30,034 of 39,414
Originally posted on the dark side, over in the bird thread, but thought I'd share some brief thoughts on my experience with two of Lotoo's totl DAPs here as well. Enjoy!

Over the last couple of days, I had the privilege of testing two of Lotoo’s TOTL DAPs side-by-side: the LPGT and LPGT Ti.

These 2 daps were loaned to me by Andrew @MusicTeck.

When I purchased the Traillii from Andrew a few months ago, he provided top-notch customer service; even hand-delivering the bird to me when he was near my apartment. Since then, I’ve been interested in other stuff Andrew has (he carries a lot of awesome audio gear,) and he is always quick to respond, knowledgeable, and exceedingly friendly. I’m not fond of shilling products, but I’ll shill good service all day, everyday because it’s quite rare to find…thanks, Andrew.

So, without further ado, here’s my quick take on Lotoo’s LPGT and Ti (tested with the Oriolus Traillii)

Lotoo is known by many for its world-class reference sound, and after listening to both of these DAPs, I now know why. While both are undeniably great, I do have a favorite.

Both the LPGT and Ti have very slick interfaces: menus aren’t flashy, but both players are quick to load up, easy to use and navigate, and relatively intuitive overall. There’s also a nifty search function, accessible with a simple swipe down from the top of the screen. I didn’t know about this at first, but once I discovered it, it became second nature to access and seamlessly search for a specific song or artist.

The build of both players is incredibly solid and high-end; they each feel fantastic in the hand, albeit slightly chunky, but nothing crazy. Depending on how stylish you are (i.e. how tightly you wear your jeans,) the LPGT or Ti are technically pocketable, but they won't just slide in there like your phone. That said, I had no issues with holding or using either device with one hand. The Ti is noticeably heavier, coming in at a not insignificant 50+ grams more than the LPGT. The Ti tips the scales at 365 grams vs. the less weighty LPGT, which weighs just 311 grams. Whichever you choose, overall dimensions are identical, and the biggest difference from a build standpoint besides the weight, is that the Ti is a dark grey (it’s made of Ti, after all) and the LPGT is a slightly less cool-looking shade of black. And of course, both have the trademark Lotoo horizontal gold volume wheel up-top. Regardless of which one you choose, your interaction with either device will no doubt provide a similar high-end user experience both from a tactile and functionality perspective.

Now let’s get to the good stuff, sound.

The main thing I knew about Lotoo before listening to either player, was that Lotoo is known for its reference and neutral sound. After listening to the Traillii off the LPGT, I can only say that it is the most detailed and realistic sound I’ve ever heard from any non-speaker setup. Just the bird and the LPGT…that’s it. It’s hard to imagine things getting better, but if they can…bring it on.

For me, the LPGT strikingly and unquestionably lives up to its reputation in delivering a world-class, reference sound...the best I’ve heard to date. Staging is utterly massive on the traillii, (the biggest I’ve heard from the bird so far by a substantial margin,) and the sound is shockingly detailed, realistic, lifelike, and holographic. It is somehow a step above every other interpretation of “reference” sound I’ve heard so far, which really wows me.

I listened to orchestral music, some Dr. Chesky binaural recordings (wow), acoustic, jazz…everything sounded more real than I’ve ever heard from an iem setup before. From what I experienced with the lighter Lotoo, I feel its ultimate goal is to make you feel like you’re in the recording environment, hearing an utterly pure and unfiltered version of what happened during the capture. I say this, knowing that it is a wildly overused cliche. The difference in this case, however, is that I honestly feel like I’m using the expression less as a cliche, and more as an accurate way to describe what I hear…or maybe I’m just drawing out the cliche…but I really don’t think so…oh well.

With the LPGT > Bird combo, I feel I am hearing an ultra-totl synergy that I’ve simply never experienced before, and it is marvelous.

Despite the virtual obligation to first and foremost describe the LPGT’s sound as reference and neutral, which it very much is, the LPGT creates a similarly persuasive case that it is equally musical, engaging and exciting. In fact, for me it ranks as the most exciting, uncolored sound I’ve ever heard. Truly impressive.

So, that’s how I feel about the LPGT, what about the Ti?

Here’s where I’m sort of at a loss…when I listen to the LPGT, I hear a perfectly balanced, neutral, and utterly real-sounding portrayal of the music. With the Ti, it seems to me as if Lotoo is trying to create a "colored-neutral" version of the beloved tuning from the original LPGT; pushing vocals a bit closer, and ever-so-slightly boosting upper mids and treble. For some, this may be precisely what they're after: a slightly more energetic and forward version of the original LGPT sound.

For me, however, I feel that the tuning of the LPGT is damn near perfect. Each time I listened to the Ti, I couldn’t help but feel like the LPGT was beckoning me back with its impeccably fine-tuned balance and sense of realism. The takeaway being that if you’re looking for a sound that is slightly more energetic than reference, with a bit more pronounced vocals, and slightly more forward upper mids, and treble, the Ti may be the better choice.

In the end both of these players sound similarly stunning, but for me, I prefer the LPGT for its shocking purity, neutrality, staging, and utter sense of realism.

Bravo(o) Lotoo.
I’ve been lusting after that titanium version for a while now, but I gotta think that Sony must be working on a replacement to the WM1Z since it’s going on 5 years since it was released, but the Lotoo is definitely desirable.
 
Apr 13, 2021 at 9:10 PM Post #30,036 of 39,414
I’ve been lusting after that titanium version for a while now, but I gotta think that Sony must be working on a replacement to the WM1Z since it’s going on 5 years since it was released, but the Lotoo is definitely desirable.
I was struck by an interesting thought..

I think an LPGT loaded with jazz, acoustic, and classical...and then something like, a P6P, filled with EDM and rock would be :fire::astonished::fire:

And yes, Sony's gotta be cooking up something new at this point...
 
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Apr 14, 2021 at 3:02 PM Post #30,037 of 39,414
The Thummim have landed, and I’m discovering the advantage of having dumbo ears (well, other than that flight thing), they fit perfectly. The first song I listened too was “Dogs of War” from Delicate Sound of Thunder, those dogs were way out in my backyard, the crowd was in a huge sphere around my head, musicians spread from far outside my left ear, to far outside of my right side, just a few steps back, wow! I can hear why some guys compare them to the Abyss 1266.
 
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Apr 14, 2021 at 5:07 PM Post #30,038 of 39,414
The Thummim have landed, and I’m discovering the advantage of having dumbo ears (well, other than that flight thing), they fit perfectly. The first song I listened too was “Dogs of War” from Delicate Sound of Thunder, those dogs were way out in my backyard, the crowd was in a huge sphere around my head, musicians spread from far outside my left ear, to far outside of my right side, just a few steps back, wow! I can hear why some guys compare them to the Abyss 1266.
Ok, soundstage sounds good... so how's the bass on this thing?
 
Apr 14, 2021 at 5:43 PM Post #30,039 of 39,414
Very near LX level, combined with better balance in the mids and treble. I want to listen other music, but Floyd keeps drawing me back in, the intro to”Run Like Hell”just blew me away!!!
 
Apr 14, 2021 at 5:46 PM Post #30,040 of 39,414
Very near LX level, combined with better balance in the mids and treble. I want to listen other music, but Floyd keeps drawing me back in, the intro to”Run Like Hell”just blew me away!!!
Listening to the same song now with the Odin.. :beerchug:
 
Apr 14, 2021 at 6:51 PM Post #30,041 of 39,414
So, if I really like the Sultan (Acoustune 07 L tips, Crystal Double Duet Cable, PW box 4.4-2.5AK adapter, SP2000cu) I will <fill in the blank> the Thummim. Same qwuestion for Odin....

I don;t have very extended HF hearing any more, but one of the 'listening tests' I do to check for what I call coherence, is to see if I can close my etes, and will the musicians to step forward out of my head, and stand in front of me, or even a little above me.....

How are the Thummim for that, as compared to the Sultans, etc....?
 
Apr 14, 2021 at 6:58 PM Post #30,042 of 39,414
So, if I really like the Sultan (Acoustune 07 L tips, Crystal Double Duet Cable, PW box 4.4-2.5AK adapter, SP2000cu) I will <fill in the blank> the Thummim. Same qwuestion for Odin....

I don;t have very extended HF hearing any more, but one of the 'listening tests' I do to check for what I call coherence, is to see if I can close my etes, and will the musicians to step forward out of my head, and stand in front of me, or even a little above me.....

How are the Thummim for that, as compared to the Sultans, etc....?

I can't help, as I haven't spent time with the Sultans yet, and I've only had the Thummim for a couple hours, so with a gigantic grain of salt, my 0.02. Compared to the MEST, LX, and the VE Meister, the Thummim stage is wider, deeper, and much taller, it's the real deal. The Bee Silicone tips work well, but the SednaEarfitLights get a great seal, and they fit tightly enough they extend the Thummim so that it doesn't touch my ear.
 
Apr 14, 2021 at 7:18 PM Post #30,043 of 39,414
I can't help, as I haven't spent time with the Sultans yet, and I've only had the Thummim for a couple hours, so with a gigantic grain of salt, my 0.02. Compared to the MEST, LX, and the VE Meister, the Thummim stage is wider, deeper, and much taller, it's the real deal. The Bee Silicone tips work well, but the SednaEarfitLights get a great seal, and they fit tightly enough they extend the Thummim so that it doesn't touch my ear.
I remember and have been dreaming about my demo of the Thummin for 4 months. I loved the sound it was exactly what I was looking for. Just the right amount of extra bass and would have been my bass set, the stage and the whole signature, I loved it.

Unfortunately it hurt me to wear it. I am hoping, really hoping, that MMR can do this again but this time without sharp angles.

After your comments I am thinking I need to try again, this time trying different tips that could solve the issue. My problem though is I have big ears and the outside of the IEM the part that should not touch anything, does, same problem with the Sony and even the Dunu, outer top edges they create abrasion and after some time it becomes unbearable. And then it takes a couple days before I can wear any IEM.

The Thummin is expensive and if I am going to invest in a set it has to not only sound phenomenal it has to be excellent physically as well.

I also wonder though if some of the reason it sounds the way it does is because of how the sound waves are affected inside the housing by those very same sharp edges, that I cannot live with.
 
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Apr 14, 2021 at 7:37 PM Post #30,044 of 39,414
I also wonder though if some of the reason it sounds the way it does is because of how the sound waves are affected inside the housing by those very same sharp edges, that I cannot live with.
I wondered this too...but it’s actually not the case at all.

The angles are not for the purpose of acoustic chambers...they are, for better or worse, strictly aesthetic.
 
Apr 14, 2021 at 8:16 PM Post #30,045 of 39,414
I remember and have been dreaming about my demo of the Thummin for 4 months. I loved the sound it was exactly what I was looking for. Just the right amount of extra bass and would have been my bass set, the stage and the whole signature, I loved it.

Unfortunately it hurt me to wear it. I am hoping, really hoping, that MMR can do this again but this time without sharp angles.

After your comments I am thinking I need to try again, this time trying different tips that could solve the issue. My problem though is I have big ears and the outside of the IEM the part that should not touch anything, does, same problem with the Sony and even the Dunu, outer top edges they create abrasion and after some time it becomes unbearable. And then it takes a couple days before I can wear any IEM.

The Thummin is expensive and if I am going to invest in a set it has to not only sound phenomenal it has to be excellent physically as well.

I also wonder though if some of the reason it sounds the way it does is because of how the sound waves are affected inside the housing by those very same sharp edges, that I cannot live with.

With these SednaFitLights, they don't touch the outside of my ear at all. When I'm listening in bed, it doesn't really matter, but when I moved around, it did touch while using the Bee Tips.
 

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