[Vitaly2017]

Do you know if you’re dropping by Toronto this weekend?

Have a 4.4 to 2.5 adapter ready

I am on my way to spruce pine Nc maybe on my way back, will see


@Rockwell75

Its also important to consider how strong is the sound... Its all great to have a lot of mw power output but if it has no guts and all it does is more volume but no depths then what is good of it to raise volume?

I am not saying m8 is thin or has poor sound.
It just has less guts power then 1z and sp2k this is where the ToTL daps draws the line and M8 dont touch it....

Sp2000 has same sound quality even when you raise the amp volume high, this is thanks to ak engeeniring the best audio path possible. Effectiveness and stability to the max.

By the way ak never gets hot why? Cause its super effectively optimized like 1z...

 

[riverground]

For now I am using clear Final E-tips because I get the best fit using those with my Phantom. I would like to try Spiraldots one day, but never found them where I could easily order them (for a fair price).

I felt that the Final E tips, while they give a nice bass presentation on the Wraith. They attenuate the treble a little bit much. So if you have other wider bore tips. Do try them out! Hopefully you get a chance to have some SpiralDots sometime soon.

 

[Wyville]

I have no clue...in all the talks I've seen about "difficult to power" IEMs the Wraith seems to be uniquely distinguished in that category.

Yeah, it is really unusual. They are extremely sensitive, the most sensitive I have tried so far and yet the estats are implemented in such a way that they need an incredibly powerful amp.

 

[Wyville]

I felt that the Final E tips, while they give a nice bass presentation on the Wraith. They attenuate the treble a little bit much. So if you have other wider bore tips. Do try them out! Hopefully you get a chance to have some SpiralDots sometime soon.

Thanks! Will go through my tip collection.

 

[Vitaly2017]

Yeah WM1Z having similar power as the M8 is just flat out wrong lol

No jokes !
I had mdr-z1r which I did a/b with 1z and M8!
It had axios kimber kable!

I swear even if M8 had maybe more volume by 10 clicks. The sound quality was superior on 1z pairing....

On 1z it had more dynamics, stronger sound presentation, thicker more authoritive sound

It felt like M8 had the volume advantage by 5% but not in quality...

 

[RTodd]

Yeah, it is really unusual. They are extremely sensitive, the most sensitive I have tried so far and yet the estats are implemented in such a way that they need an incredibly powerful amp.

Estats have a transformer between them and the source, that circuit needs more power. The transformer is raising the voltage level which the other BAs do not need. On the Ely you can see that as well as on the Traillii.

 

[Wyville]

Estats have a transformer between them and the source, that circuit needs more power. The transformer is raising the voltage level which the other BAs do not need. On the Ely you can see that as well as on the Traillii.

Yeah, but the newer generation estats are a lot easier to drive. The Wraith have the first generation, I believe, and the implementation seems to be making it even harder.

 

[Vitaly2017]

Yeah, but the newer generation estats are a lot easier to drive. The Wraith have the first generation, I believe, and the implementation seems to be making it even harder.

Sounds like wraith was created for desktop audiophiles then portable

 

[twister6]

Based on the specs I found, WM1A/Z DAPs are rated at only 30mW (@32ohm, 3.5mm SE) and 125mW (@32ohm, 4.4mm BAL), they are underpowered. Also, some manufacturers, like A&K, specify the output as Vrms without load, so the actual output power with a load will be lower. And as you guys all aware, just because it sounds loud, doesn't mean it is driven properly to their full potential

 

[normie610]

I swear man I did test it with big headphones, M8 pushed just a tad more then 1z but dynamics and headroom of sound was way stronger on 1z.
M8 couldn't bring the Mdr-z1r to same powerfull drive in sound as 1z did.

And sp2000 is 6vrms its very strong.

6vrms translates to around 720 mW and I believe it’s with no load for AK players. So it’s still a lower output than M8 even with no load. As for 1Z, it’s only 250 mW. 1Z is a great DAP and I love its sound, but unfortunately it is underpowered to drive power hungry IEMs or headphones.

edit: alex @twister6 beat me to it!

 

[Vitaly2017]

6vrms translates to around 720 mW and I believe it’s with no load for AK players. So it’s still a lower output than M8 even with no load. As for 1Z, it’s only 250 mW. 1Z is a great DAP and I love its sound, but unfortunately it is underpowered to drive power hungry IEMs or headphones.

edit: alex @twister6 beat me to it!

Yes I understand the specs but it is not what I experienced in real world scenario.
I believe it also a synergy question.

I don't deny 1z is very old and its amp is no longer a class leader. Ak to me sounds linear and smoother across all volume range then 1z. Also it has consistent power injection. In 1z once you reach the 80/120 range there is audible clicks. And feels like we are stretching the mile here

In ak it seems very capable there, no clicks either. One single gain and same performance in any volume range

 

[gLer]

Guys we're talking IEMs right? Other than Wraith, which is a notoriously difficult IEM to drive and is more akin to desktop headphones with its power requirements, any top DAP should power most of today's top IEMs with absolute ease. If you're having to push your DAP past the half power mark for IEMs, that's not a good sign.

 

[normie610]

Yes I understand the specs but it is not what I experienced in real world scenario.
I believe it also a synergy question.

I don't deny 1z is very old and its amp is no longer a class leader. Ak to me sounds linear and smoother across all volume range then 1z. Also it has consistent power injection. In 1z once you reach the 80/120 range there is audible clicks. And feels like we are stretching the mile here

In ak it seems very capable there, no clicks either. One single gain and same performance in any volume range

Well we do hear things differently, but to my ears, 1Z doesn’t have enough juice for power-hungry IEMs & headphones.

 

[Vitaly2017]

Guys we're talking IEMs right? Other than Wraith, which is a notoriously difficult IEM to drive and is more akin to desktop headphones with its power requirements, any top DAP should power most of today's top IEMs with absolute ease. If you're having to push your DAP past the half power mark for IEMs, that's not a good sign.

What I can say is when I had Trio and Noir on hands at same time.
My trios wanted a good 5 to 10% more volume then noirs. I think its because of LiD.

I found noir to be easier to drive and a more sensitive to any changes in the chain. To me its a good thing as you get a more fidel and transparent sound so you can easily pick what changes with each gear you swap.

 

[InstantSilence]

What I can say is when I had Trio and Noir on hands at same time.
My trios wanted a good 5 to 10% more volume then noirs. I think its because of LiD.

I found noir to be easier to drive and a more sensitive to any changes in the chain. To me its a good thing as you get a more fidel and transparent sound so you can easily pick what changes with each gear you swap.

Is Fourte Og more transparent than Noir?