[normie610]

Did you compare the Diana V2 to the latest 1266? And Emoyrean and Susvara? If so, curious as to your thoughts. Tks.

No I didn’t. I believe @MatW had answered that I chose V2 since I want something that’s less intense on the treble section, with a bit of overall warm signature. But I think if you do have the proper gear, TC would be the ultimate one from Abyss (perhaps one day I‘d go for TC). From what I’ve read and heard, Susvara is even harder to drive and will need a solid speaker amp to really reach its potential.

 

[twister6]

For me personally, unis tip rolling is a huge plus and almost a must have. Changing the seal controls the bass and fixes driver flex (if any when dealing with DD or DD-hybrids). Changing insertion depth controls the soundstage width when going between taller/shorter eartips. Changing material from silicone to foam can help with lower treble peaks. Changing between eartips with different bore opening also has effect on the sound. Can't do any of this with CIEMs. And last, but not least, it is priceless being able to pull them out quickly when testing/switching between IEMs with different sensitivity and forget to drop down the volume lol!!!

 

[davidmolliere]

Understand this, but still.... have you gone custom sometimes?

 

[Deezel177]

Until 64 Audio make a custom Fourte, that option is off the table for me.

Speaking of Fourte and current DD flagships, and adding to the big discussion I somehow missed earlier, when do you guys reckon someone's going to come up with a stratospheric-priced DD flagship to play with the Erlkys and Traillis of this world?

Odin seems to be quite polarising for its tuning, and even those that love it haven't showered it with praise like you hear from Erlky and Trailli owners.

I'm quite happy to stop at Fourte for now, and actually prefer the tuning and signature to Noir. It does need to be partnered up with a bassier dynamic driver IEM though (even though I could live with it as my it TOTL, I'd quickly miss bigger bass with half my library).

Hence the question - when will we see a monster DD IEM that redefines the summit. No matter how good they are, no DD means no Erlky or Ely or Trailli for me.

The Legend X was this IEM a couple years ago, and some would argue it still is. I think the trepidation manufacturers may have with implementing DD woofers at the high-end comes from coherence and colouration. Diaphragms are notoriously difficult to seamlessly integrate with BAs and e-stats, while still maintaining their DD-ness. And, a DD’s most desired qualities tend to contrast what most people look for in flagship IEMs, which is ultimate, pristine clarity and cleanliness. The Odin is an example of an in-ear that has both, but even then, they’ve had to tone down the quantity of the bass to near-flat.

I think, to me, it’s a similar scenario to what we’re seeing with high-budget, R-rated films. A lot of us want to see more of them, but that R rating inherently limits accessibility and, thus, the potential it has to break even (in films, it’s financial, while I assume it’s more R&D time with IEMs). So, until there’s either a proven market for it, or someone is ballsy enough to give it a go (like EE have with the LX), then it’s still a ways away from becoming a real thing.

It’s funny, I actually don’t agree with this anymore.

I used to swear I’d never buy another universal again...but then I came to realize that the two best-sounding iems i’d heard are only available in universal, so that kind of made up my mind for me.

I find that customs actually have more issues for me when I move around...where customs break the seal or dig into my ear because of how rigid they are, universals do a better job of flexing a bit while both maintaining the seal for sound and staying comfortable; after all, the contact point is really only around the ear canal. I’ve come to really appreciate this.

the biggest difference is probably isolation, but especially with the heavy silver of the erlky, I find the isolation to be quite good.

as you also mention, resale value is indeed a massive plus for unis as well.

I think it heavily depends on your ear anatomy. Universals are more-often-than-not headaches for me. Either they’re hard to consistently insert, hard to keep stable or both. Even customs require a bit of finagling sometimes with my canals. So, resale value and availability aside, it comes down to our unique, individual traits at the end of the day.

 

[toaster]

I think it heavily depends on your ear anatomy. Universals are more-often-than-not headaches for me. Either they’re hard to consistently insert, hard to keep stable or both. Even customs require a bit of finagling sometimes with my canals. So, resale value and availability aside, it comes down to our unique, individual traits at the end of the day.

I agree to some extent.

Ultimately, if one has come to find he or she can only achieve a good fit and seal with [custom/universal] iems, the choice to go one way or the other is certainly understood.

In the case of both the erlky and the traillii, neither is available in custom, which is really quite a shame for those who need customs. indeed, for some people the erlky just won't fit their ears.

the traillii is actually quite small, so i'd guess fewer people will have issues with its universal shells vs. the erlky, but like you said, in the end it comes down to anatomy.

 

[normie610]

Doing it like a champ... Straight in, no holding back. Wish I could afford the V2, but maybe in a couple of years time if everything goes according to plan.

Well thanks to this community I’m confident enough to buy it blindly. The same goes for a few other items, Erlky, i4, M5, Ely, Z1R

 

[twister6]

Understand this, but still.... have you gone custom sometimes?

I assume this is a question for me, David? Yes, I had no choice but to go custom with Westone ES60 and ES80 and 64 Audio N8 and A18s, though switched to universal demo of A18s later. Had a few other customs as well. The problem in my case, I have a sharp first bend in my left ear and nozzle has to be trimmed down to where it looks almost like universal, along with right shell that needs to be trimmed to match it. As Piotr once told me "your ears were not meant for CIEM"

 

[Frankie D]

Here is my writeup of the Traillii as I promised.

I received the Traillii for a few days this past week to audition. I first listened to it with the included ear tips and was not overly impressed. I could tell this was an excellent IEM, but it was no threat to the Erlkonig. However, when I put on the Azla SednaEarFitLight Short tips, they were a perfect fit for my ears and the fun began. I started listening and comparing using some EDM and some of the tracks @rockwell has been recommending on the VE thread for the Elysium (thanks Rock!). I found the Traillii to have a slightly smoother upper midrange and treble (very close) and much more bass than the Ely. The Traillii provided this bass impact without impacting the mids and treble in any negative way. As I was listening, I found the Traillii to be involving me more into the music than the Elysium. The Erlkonig proved to have a fuller bass and a slightly softer yet extended treble.

On “Can’t Stop Running” by Adam Ben Ezra, a track that is literally in the wheelhouse of the Elysium, the Traillii provided more bass on each note, and all of the detail just as clear. The Erlkonig provided a fuller sounding bass with the hand hits very clear and sounding great! The Traillii’s bass, though a touch less powerful, was just a tiny bit tighter. The Ely with its less bass heavy presentation was great, but each bass note was missing the power portrayed by both the Traillii and Erlkonig. In my notes I wrote: “is the Traillii and Ely with bass?” I think it is and a few others on head-fi have mentioned this. I would agree. The mids are not an advantage for the Ely vs the Traillii.

I am not a big soundstage person, but I am interested in instrument and vocalist placement. Both the Erlk and Traillii are excellent in this regard. The Traillii has a wide soundstage and as Alex (@twister6) has already stated, it is pretty much like that of the Ely. I would agree. I am positive no one will be upset by its soundstage.

I then moved on to some well recorded rock and jazz albums. What I quickly found was that the Erlkonig and Traillii were in a class of their own. On “Brothers in Arms,” with its wider range of sound and dynamics, the Elysium could not keep up. Its presentation was just too light, and it had the incorrect timbre (in comparison). The same was true for all kinds of reasons for the VE-8, VX, Layla, Luna, Fourte, etc. As soon as I switched to one of them, it was easy to see they were no competition for the Erlk and Traillii. I just wanted to put them back in my ears. I even tried listening to the other IEM’s first, getting adjusted to their sound, to give them any advantage possible (including volume at times). However, as soon as I listened again to the Traillii, it was night and day. I tried this with a few more albums, both rock and jazz, and then stopped. It was abundantly clear the Traillii and Erlk both sounded better than everything else I could throw at them.

Listening to “Brothers In Arms,” the Traillii had a bit brighter presentation than the Erlk but still smooth, great timbre and bass. The vocals came across as they should. The Erlk was also excellent. It was a touch darker than the Traillii, but also had excellent timbre and bass. The vocals were excellent. I might like the Traillii’s rendition a bit better here. As the bass on this album (though a great recording) could be a bit better, the little bit of extra tightness on the Traillii along with its slightly brighter presentation gives it a slight advantage. A battle for sure though.

Listening to “Graceland” The Erlkonig had a touch of darkness which smooths out the tracks and overall provides a better sound to my ears. However, the Traillii is right there, though on some tracks I did have to lower the volume as it is just a touch brighter and more open and that did not always work the best on this album. And quite often it was a toss-up. Overall, on this album I give the edge to the Erlkonig, but awfully close.

On “Abraxas,” the Erlkonig sounded best. The heavier note weight provided a more intense listen. Traillii was excellent, but Erlk had the edge. It also seemed a bit smoother on some vocals which played better on this album.

On L.A. Woman, the Traillii sounded best. It sounded a little more open and added a touch of brightness to the vocals which played well. Both sound great though, and the details in this recording all come through letting you easily hear the driving rhythms.

On some jazz albums by Chick Corea they were both terrific. If I made my home 2-channel system neutral, then the Erlkonig is a little darker than neutral (which makes sense as I have previously described the Erlkonig as neutral leaning Romantic), while the Traillii is a touch brighter than neutral. And it is terrific.

And this went on an on. Each one terrific and outclassing every other IEM I have heard. In my view, not the Ely, Thummim, VE-8, VX, Fourte, etc. compare. In summary, and this is only in comparison to each other, the Erlkonig has a little more note weight, a bit more bass power and slightly warmer upper mids/treble while the Traillii is a bit brighter overall with a touch tighter bass. If absolutely forced to pick a favorite, I might pick the Erlkonig, but in reality, they are right on top of each other. I just kept feeling this throughout every comparison. So much so, that I just sat back and listened, and stopped taking notes. My advice would be to someone looking to own an Erlkonig that cannot get one, just get the Traillii if you have the means. If you already own the Erlk, I personally would not get rid of one for the other, but instead get both if you have the bank. While many of us have a bit different taste overall, I highly doubt anyone could dislike the Traillii, so audition one if possible, but you may be doing so at great cost.

As far as the packaging, it stinks. But you know what, I have yet to use any manufacturer’s included case above my Dignis cases, and I typically have to change the cable where here I would not. So even though the packaging is nowhere near what VE or Dunu provide, it is the sound that counts. The cable is microphonic though. Nothing over the top terrible, but that seems to be a characteristic of PW’s 1950’s and 1960’s cables.

And for me, here is the kicker. The darn thing is more comfortable with the sedna tips than the Erlk. My Erlk fits great, but the Traillii’s fit is even better and one of, if not the most comfortable fit including my customs. I am working on getting one from Andrew at MusicTeck.

I might write this up and more as a full review, not sure, but hopefully this is helpful to those wishing to consider the Traillii. Enjoy!

 

[Damz87]

Here is my writeup of the Traillii as I promised.

I received the Traillii for a few days this past week to audition. I first listened to it with the included ear tips and was not overly impressed. I could tell this was an excellent IEM, but it was no threat to the Erlkonig. However, when I put on the Azla SednaEarFitLight Short tips, they were a perfect fit for my ears and the fun began. I started listening and comparing using some EDM and some of the tracks @rockwell has been recommending on the VE thread for the Elysium (thanks Rock!). I found the Traillii to have a slightly smoother upper midrange and treble (very close) and much more bass than the Ely. The Traillii provided this bass impact without impacting the mids and treble in any negative way. As I was listening, I found the Traillii to be involving me more into the music than the Elysium. The Erlkonig proved to have a fuller bass and a slightly softer yet extended treble.

On “Can’t Stop Running” by Adam Ben Ezra, a track that is literally in the wheelhouse of the Elysium, the Traillii provided more bass on each note, and all of the detail just as clear. The Erlkonig provided a fuller sounding bass with the hand hits very clear and sounding great! The Traillii’s bass, though a touch less powerful, was just a tiny bit tighter. The Ely with its less bass heavy presentation was great, but each bass note was missing the power portrayed by both the Traillii and Erlkonig. In my notes I wrote: “is the Traillii and Ely with bass?” I think it is and a few others on head-fi have mentioned this. I would agree. The mids are not an advantage for the Ely vs the Traillii.

I am not a big soundstage person, but I am interested in instrument and vocalist placement. Both the Erlk and Traillii are excellent in this regard. The Traillii has a wide soundstage and as Alex (@twister6) has already stated, it is pretty much like that of the Ely. I would agree. I am positive no one will be upset by its soundstage.

I then moved on to some well recorded rock and jazz albums. What I quickly found was that the Erlkonig and Traillii were in a class of their own. On “Brothers in Arms,” with its wider range of sound and dynamics, the Elysium could not keep up. Its presentation was just too light, and it had the incorrect timbre (in comparison). The same was true for all kinds of reasons for the VE-8, VX, Layla, Luna, Fourte, etc. As soon as I switched to one of them, it was easy to see they were no competition for the Erlk and Traillii. I just wanted to put them back in my ears. I even tried listening to the other IEM’s first, getting adjusted to their sound, to give them any advantage possible (including volume at times). However, as soon as I listened again to the Traillii, it was night and day. I tried this with a few more albums, both rock and jazz, and then stopped. It was abundantly clear the Traillii and Erlk both sounded better than everything else I could throw at them.

Listening to “Brothers In Arms,” the Traillii had a bit brighter presentation than the Erlk but still smooth, great timbre and bass. The vocals came across as they should. The Erlk was also excellent. It was a touch darker than the Traillii, but also had excellent timbre and bass. The vocals were excellent. I might like the Traillii’s rendition a bit better here. As the bass on this album (though a great recording) could be a bit better, the little bit of extra tightness on the Traillii along with its slightly brighter presentation gives it a slight advantage. A battle for sure though.

Listening to “Graceland” The Erlkonig had a touch of darkness which smooths out the tracks and overall provides a better sound to my ears. However, the Traillii is right there, though on some tracks I did have to lower the volume as it is just a touch brighter and more open and that did not always work the best on this album. And quite often it was a toss-up. Overall, on this album I give the edge to the Erlkonig, but awfully close.

On “Abraxas,” the Erlkonig sounded best. The heavier note weight provided a more intense listen. Traillii was excellent, but Erlk had the edge. It also seemed a bit smoother on some vocals which played better on this album.

On L.A. Woman, the Traillii sounded best. It sounded a little more open and added a touch of brightness to the vocals which played well. Both sound great though, and the details in this recording all come through letting you easily hear the driving rhythms.

On some jazz albums by Chick Corea they were both terrific. If I made my home 2-channel system neutral, then the Erlkonig is a little darker than neutral (which makes sense as I have previously described the Erlkonig as neutral leaning Romantic), while the Traillii is a touch brighter than neutral. And it is terrific.

And this went on an on. Each one terrific and outclassing every other IEM I have heard. In my view, not the Ely, Thummim, VE-8, VX, Fourte, etc. compare. In summary, and this is only in comparison to each other, the Erlkonig has a little more note weight, a bit more bass power and slightly warmer upper mids/treble while the Traillii is a bit brighter overall with a touch tighter bass. If absolutely forced to pick a favorite, I might pick the Erlkonig, but in reality, they are right on top of each other. I just kept feeling this throughout every comparison. So much so, that I just sat back and listened, and stopped taking notes. My advice would be to someone looking to own an Erlkonig that cannot get one, just get the Traillii if you have the means. If you already own the Erlk, I personally would not get rid of one for the other, but instead get both if you have the bank. While many of us have a bit different taste overall, I highly doubt anyone could dislike the Traillii, so audition one if possible, but you may be doing so at great cost.

As far as the packaging, it stinks. But you know what, I have yet to use any manufacturer’s included case above my Dignis cases, and I typically have to change the cable where here I would not. So even though the packaging is nowhere near what VE or Dunu provide, it is the sound that counts. The cable is microphonic though. Nothing over the top terrible, but that seems to be a characteristic of PW’s 1950’s and 1960’s cables.

And for me, here is the kicker. The darn thing is more comfortable with the sedna tips than the Erlk. My Erlk fits great, but the Traillii’s fit is even better and one of, if not the most comfortable fit including my customs. I am working on getting one.

I might write this up and more as a full review, not sure, but hopefully this is helpful to those wishing to consider the Traillii. Enjoy!

Great write up. You’ve explained the Traillii exactly how I hear it too thanks for sharing

 

[arijitroy2]

I'll be honest, I kinda like the no-nonsense approach packaging of the Trailli and that it only relies on the sound to do it's talking.

 

[normie610]

I'll be honest, I kinda like the no-nonsense approach packaging of the Trailli and that it only relies on the sound to do it's talking.

Can’t wait to hear your impressions mate!

 

[arijitroy2]

Can’t wait to hear your impressions mate!

Haha you might have to wait a bit! Will get this a bit before Easter!

 

[normie610]

Haha you might have to wait a bit! Will get this a bit before Easter!

Ah sorry mate, I thought they’re coming to you already

 

[arijitroy2]

Ah sorry mate, I thought they’re coming to you already

Since I'm depending on the govt package I'll have to wait! No way I'm dropping so much from my own

 

[ranfan]

I remember my gateway IEM to this hobby, the Empire Ears Supra. Back then I thought, "Wait, this has two drivers!" And then the shopkeeper (silly me for asking) introduced the Oriolus 2, DD hybrid. From then on I became a basshead, until I found the Prelude and its lovely midrange sound quality