[stenog]

Just to make it clear regarding upcoming FiiO daps

The M11 pro will be released later this year and all specs are well known except for the exact price. FiiO wrote a few months ago that it would be 25% more expensive than the M11, but apparently it will be a bit more. The M15 and M15 pro will be released sometime next year(probably?) We don't know anything about specs or price I am not sure even FiiO does at this stage.

I am not planning to buy any of them though interested to see the specs of the M15pro. Like others here i have my eye on the DX220 max and maybe Cayin N6ii. Especially the DX220 max looks very interesting.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Just to make it clear regarding upcoming FiiO daps

The M11 pro will be released later this year and all specs are well known except for the exact price. FiiO wrote a few months ago that it would be 25% more expensive than the M11, but apparently it will be a bit more. The M15 and M15 pro will be released sometime next year(probably?) We don't know anything about specs or price I am not sure even FiiO does at this stage.

I am not planning to buy any of them though interested to see the specs of the M15pro. Like others here i have my eye on the DX220 max and maybe Cayin N6ii. Especially the DX220 max looks very interesting.

Yeah but there was a pretty long period after the M11 was released that there wasn't a mention of the pro

 

[stenog]

Yeah but there was a pretty long period after the M11 was released that there wasn't a mention of the pro

I think you are right about that and i am not defending FiiO. They do release a lot of daps . It's about money nothing else. But they are not the only company doing this.

 

[mvvRAZ]

I think you are right about that and i am not defending FiiO. They do release a lot of daps . It's about money nothing else. But they are not the only company doing this.

Yeah 2019 is the year of the cash grabs... Just look at that "new" Layla haha

Wait EDIT before my statement gets taken completely out of context: While there have been a lot of cash grabs this year, it's also been insane on innovation, producing some exceptional tribrids in the IEM market etc

 

[twister6]

The price difference has become pretty big though. Initially it was going to be 20%, but now it is up to $700 already. To me they might as well have numbered it differently and simply considered all models separate. FiiO made it clear that the M11 was the first of a number of higher end DAPs released this year, but I think going with the 'Pro' moniker just pisses people off because they feel like they bought the inferior M11. Seems more like a marketing strategy because I think if they had called it the M12 people would feel less bad about their M11.

Erik, I think tariffs/trade war with China is what driving many of these prices up. For FiiO, US market is probably the most significant, especially since FiiO products are known as more consumer oriented. But with their prices going up, now they will have to face a competition from other manufacturers and hopefully will up their sound quality game. M11 is a great price/performance DAP, but still in upper mid-fi sound quality and performance category, which could be scaled up when using Neutron app (as many people pointed out to me). If M11 Pro is $700, I would assume M15 will be even higher, maybe even closer to $1k? (just speculating). Then, M15 Pro has to go up again. Now, that could put M15 in R6 Pro and DX220 territory, and M15Pro in N6ii and PAW6k territory...

 

[Wyville]

Erik, I think tariffs/trade war with China is what driving many of these prices up. For FiiO, US market is probably the most significant, especially since FiiO products are known as more consumer oriented. But with their prices going up, now they will have to face a competition from other manufacturers and hopefully will up their sound quality game. M11 is a great price/performance DAP, but still in upper mid-fi sound quality and performance category, which could be scaled up when using Neutron app (as many people pointed out to me). If M11 Pro is $700, I would assume M15 will be even higher, maybe even closer to $1k? (just speculating). Then, M15 Pro has to go up again. Now, that could put M15 in R6 Pro and DX220 territory, and M15Pro in N6ii and PAW6k territory...

Yes, I saw Astell & Kern were also suffering from the fallout of that. Very frustrating, as it is not something the companies themselves have in hand. Will be interesting to see how the higher end models are positioned and if FiiO can refine what they have started out with the M11. It is a great DAP and shows promise for what's to come.

That reminds me that I must try out Neutron at some point.

 

[Jackpot77]

I've listened to the majority of the higher end of their line up (incl. IEMs and DAPs), and their biggest strength is the consistency of the products imo. I wouldn't say they're the best sounding product at their respective price points for the most part, but they will usually be the safest choice. You probably won't hit an unexpected jackpot with FiiO but you won't go completely wrong either

Pretty fair assessment, IMHO. Regarding "safety", I'd say that was a key factor in define if their design choices. Their idea of putting all three main IEM connector choices into the output was a touch of mass market genius - between that and thetUI, it really cements the M11 for me as a good quality mid-level "pick up and go" DAP. You can just grab it, grab a pair of IEMs and get listening, no fussing with cables or adapters.

Erik, I think tariffs/trade war with China is what driving many of these prices up. For FiiO, US market is probably the most significant, especially since FiiO products are known as more consumer oriented. But with their prices going up, now they will have to face a competition from other manufacturers and hopefully will up their sound quality game. M11 is a great price/performance DAP, but still in upper mid-fi sound quality and performance category, which could be scaled up when using Neutron app (as many people pointed out to me). If M11 Pro is $700, I would assume M15 will be even higher, maybe even closer to $1k? (just speculating). Then, M15 Pro has to go up again. Now, that could put M15 in R6 Pro and DX220 territory, and M15Pro in N6ii and PAW6k territory...

Alex - not been following the Fiio threads, but I do have a paid Neutron app on my other Android gear. Is it a worthwhile "upgrade" in terms of SQ over the main Fiio Music app or Hiby music in your opinion?

 

[twister6]

...
That reminds me that I must try out Neutron at some point.

That reminds me that I have to send M11 back to you Just waiting on a few more daps so I can do a quick comparison, and will ship it back, in time for you to do M11 Pro comparison

Alex - not been following the Fiio threads, but I do have a paid Neutron app on my other Android gear. Is it a worthwhile "upgrade" in terms of SQ over the main Fiio Music app or Hiby music in your opinion?

I have Neutron on my phone and can use it with any device which has Google Play (the developer sent me a license many years ago, back when I used to review on XDA-dev). But with devices that don't offer Google Play service, you need to request a special registered apk, I think. Thus a reason why I didn't try it while I have now Erik's M11 on loan (M11 doesn't have Good play store, and you don't have a custom "lurker's" ROM like on iBasso daps). Neutron is a BEAST, with hardware oversampling, parametric EQ, and so many other features. Many people I talked to say it really scales up the sound, and some also add BA300 tube amp on top of M11 to enhance it along with Neutron.

 

[Wyville]

That reminds me that I have to send M11 back to you Just waiting on a few more daps so I can do a quick comparison, and will ship it back, in time for you to do M11 Pro comparison

lol! Take your time! Haven't heard anything from FiiO, so if that happens I think it will still be a while.

 

[KuroKitsu]

Good to see DAPs are getting into sidegrades now. Thankfully Sony doesnt pull this garbage AND they tick all my boxes.

 

[491326]

Good to see DAPs are getting into sidegrades now. Thankfully Sony doesnt pull this garbage AND they tick all my boxes.

This might be blasphemy but my only box is literally something that can act as an all-in-one

 

[subguy812]

That reminds me that I have to send M11 back to you Just waiting on a few more daps so I can do a quick comparison, and will ship it back, in time for you to do M11 Pro comparison



I have Neutron on my phone and can use it with any device which has Google Play (the developer sent me a license many years ago, back when I used to review on XDA-dev). But with devices that don't offer Google Play service, you need to request a special registered apk, I think. Thus a reason why I didn't try it while I have now Erik's M11 on loan (M11 doesn't have Good play store, and you don't have a custom "lurker's" ROM like on iBasso daps). Neutron is a BEAST, with hardware oversampling, parametric EQ, and so many other features. Many people I talked to say it really scales up the sound, and some also add BA300 tube amp on top of M11 to enhance it along with Neutron.

Neutron is a stellar sounding player for Android, feature laden. It's UI has always been it's shortcoming. My preference changed a couple years ago to Poweramp, takes full advantage of onboard hardware. I have been given licenses to both, I don't think you can go wrong with either.

 

[buonassi]

Neutron is a BEAST, with hardware oversampling, parametric EQ, and so many other features. Many people I talked to say it really scales up the sound

It has the most control of any app I've used. The 64 bit processing and ability to output dithered 32 bit streams to the DAC (if supported by model) is outstanding. I've been playing with the 'oversampling' feature as well. There are 2 settings for how precise you want the interpolation math to be. On my DX150 amp 7, I found that upsampling in software yields a better result than allowing the DAC to oversample with its reconstruction filters. I upsample 4 times in Neutron software and set the dac hardware to super slow roloff (essentially a zero-order-hold or NOS). There is no aliasing because the interpolation in Neutron does the low pass filtering when upsampling.

Anyway, I've been playing with Neutron for a couple months now and nothing beats it really. It just edges out great software like UAPP for sound quality. There is a slight battery impact depending on the processor and ram in your device, but well worth it IMO.

 

[Wyville]

Good to see DAPs are getting into sidegrades now. Thankfully Sony doesnt pull this garbage AND they tick all my boxes.

Maybe at the higher end, but at the lower end Sony is happy to join the fun. At one point I could not keep up with the different iterations in the A-Series. And I say that as someone who generally really likes Sony's products. Still wouldn't mind getting my hands on a WM1A or Z.

My main problem with Sony is that they still have not sent me that DMP-1Z review sample. Please... Sony?

 

[davidcotton]

Still pissed at sony for dropping the podcast/audiobook option after the a17 series Would have been perfectly happy with the a35 as a daily driver at work. Of course I find that out AFTER I buy the damn thing (and no sony, having an option called bookmarks when you really mean favourites doesn't count).