[Victorfabius]

I have a question to anyone trying to sell their FlaresGold or perhaps contemplating doing so.

I mean this nicely, without any hostility or negativity at all, but what is it specifically that you want that is worth selling the FlaresGold for? The only thing I can think of is if you're a person who has decided you don't feel comfortable with the fit of iems and you want to switch to using headphones and/or portable speakers exclusively for personal audio usage, or your sound signature preferences have completely changed from what the FlaresGold provides.

As far I'm concerned, the FlaresGold has the best fit of any universal iem and is not something that generally would cause someone to go custom for a better fit, because the FlaresGold is such an excellent fitting iem. However, its understandable if that isn't comfortable enough to make you decide against iems for the form factor, considering its not going to get much better regarding iem fit, than the FlaresGold.

Another thing is the sound. I cannot overstate just how great they are with their tuning. Besides the sound signature, the FlaresGold is one of the least fatiguing iems I've ever heard. Its is such a vast difference in that regard compared to the contrasting sound of ba iems, such as Grado GR8 and GR10, and especially the Ortofon EQ8.

By the way, while I'm not willing to sell the Grados at the moment, if anyone here is interested in my pristine Ortofon, since I've barely used it - the iem is a very fast, heavy mid-forward iem, but lacks the emotionality of dd driver iems with the necessary warmth (to some degree), in order to properly shine through with emotion. All the ba driver iems I've heard thus far seems to strip away the emotion in favor of sheer speed.

Anyways, considering how great the FlaresGold is, I just can't understand any other reason to get rid of it, besides those I've mentioned. Of course I'm not trying to be judgemental about it, just curious.

I'm once again late to the party, but I will tell you why you will, at some point in the future, see me sell my Golds.

I would call myself either a novophile or pseudonovophile. I like new things and new experiences (within a certain scope).

The Golds may be a fantastic sound and hit most of the points on my checklist: Sound, comfort. But not on: replaceable parts. The cable attached to the IEM is the one I can't, with my skills, replace.

So... if there comes a new IEM that has a replaceable cable (priority to MMCX connections for existing cables), similar sound and seems comfortable, I'd be willing to consider it. I'm thinking of the Campfire Atlas specifically here, where, in the absence of my ability to preview the IEM, I hypothetically would consider a trade. Sometimes the trade is selling off equipment for funds to purchase something new.

That said, I'm at the 'cold, dead hands' state for the Golds currently. KB could offer me a new Atlas, the silver upgrade cables in 3.5mm se, 2.5mm balanced, and 4.4mm balanced in exchange for the Golds and would get shot down.

I've got the DX200, ZX300, and X7 Mark II to listen to and the Golds just work well with all three players; there's great synergy. I'm even starting to prefer the FiiO Q5 with the Golds over the ZX300, which is amazing itself. I love and live for these experiences.

But, we also acclimate. Ever been around a strong (good or bad) smell for a few minutes? Notice how it goes away after that time? Our brain acclimates to the smell. When we leave for a bit and smell something different, then come back, we can sense it again. Sound, for me, operates similarly. I acclimate to a sound and I need something different to experience the sense of awe I had before. When that's gone from the equipment, I begin to want something else.

I believe it's related to me wanting the next big thing always. It isn't a representation of the inadequacy of current equipment, rather a reflection of psychological state of the individual. I'm already intellectually attracted to something new and have that bias. When coupled with a sense of acclimation and desire to repeat the sensation of the past, I'll get rid of the present equipment for the next, as of yet unexperienced device/equipment.

My cycle for this lasts about six months. It's why I'm broke and need to get my Masters for a better job with more pay to facilitate this wretched spending habit of mine.

I hope that helps answer the question.

It's late for me and I'm too tired to edit, so.acfept my apologies for the wordiness and length. Cheers!

 

[Arysyn]

Good post, Victor!

Sometimes I forget to keep in mind there are different type of listeners here. A majority of people here on Head-Fi seem to be what I call "Music Explorers", which means they don't really have a favorite type of music and can listen to a variety while enjoying the unique benefits of each, and also like to try these at higher bitrates and other technical advances within the music. Within this large group, advancing from "Music Exploration", is what I call "Audio Explorers", which takes the definition of the previous subgroup to a slightly more technical level, where they don't just have music appreciation, but also venture into the technicalities of audio beyond that of the music they listen to. This is the group that loves to try all sorts of various sound signatures, amps, dacs, and cables, and are true hobbyists.

The third group that I am in, is what I consider either as Audio Purists or Audio Technical Enthusiasts. Purists are bound to a certain nature of music and sound, not willing to "explore" so much, but rather find the best in whatever they believe to be the purist sound. Even though most people in this group believe its in neutrality, or like me happen to believe music lies in the mids, where treble should exist to assist with detail and space, but not be extremely fast, and the bass should only add just enough warmth for emotionality, but nothing beyond that.

The reason I'm more of a technical enthusiast though thsn a purist, is that purists still have more interest in music itself than I do, and are willing to explore within the confines of music which fits within the parameters of their sound preferences, such as how treble purists never would engage in listening to rap music, because of the bass emphasis in rap music. I'm more of a technical listener. I have a certain preference, only listen to music that fits that preference, and I don't really listen to music all that much. Yet when I do, it really needs to elevate that occasion with a strong emotionality. Such as how epic orchestral and soundscape music can, which is the type of music you really want a great mid/treble focus that is near your face, plenty of detail, and full of space. All while the bass is just lightly serving to fulfill the emotional backend of music and never steps out of line into the forward zone above neutrality.

So, while I'm perfectly happy with the FlaresGold, those musical wanderers here on Head-Fi may have their reasons for trading and selling. The thing is though, the sound signature of the FlaresGold is so rare nowadays, especially in dynamic driver iems. While there are some similarly tuned balanced armature driver iems on the market, they still are going to sound different due to the lack of dynamics that drive the emotionality in music. They sound quite artificial to me, at least. The only advantage I see to them is in their ability to get a sound complete with clarity and an enhanced detail, in contrast to dynamic driver iems. However, the FlaresGold is really close to that, all while not losing the dynamically emotional impact.

Considering this, I wonder if its really worth getting rid of the FlaresGold for the sake of continued exploration, or even hopes that another iem with separate connectors will also get close to the sound of the FlaresGold. I'm really that confident in how great the FlaresGold are.

 

[james444]

Looking at two frequency response graph of the ME1, which one compares it with the Campfire Jupiter, while the other one compares it with the HiFiMan RE800 (It would be great for a frequency response graph of the FlaresGold. I was told by my contact at Flare Audio that they are in the process of upgrading their testing equipment for better accuracy, and they'll give more information to me when they have more to tell me about it). Anyways, here are the Unique Melody ME1 frequency response graphs. I'll continue with my commentary afterwards :




From looking at that, there is a dip around 3k, then while it rises back up, sharply dips again around 4k. This being the lower treble, is unacceptable to me, and to read from people here that this has affected detail negatively, is very disappointing to me, especially based on reading how planar magnetic drivers are capable of more precise tuning. If so, then its odd how the ME1 has this issue, causing people to need EQ. Apparently its not only the ME1 planar magnetic driver iem that needs EQ, as I've read the same about these iems from Audeze.

The notion that iems with more precise tuning capabilities could end up with these issues, while Flare Audio is capable of such excellent tuning on an iem featuring more difficult-to-tune dynamic drivers, is quite a complexity to wonder about. While I don't have the FlaresGold frequency response graph, I do still have the FlaresPro frequency response graph. Despite the harsher upper treble on the Pro than the Gold, its still interesting to see how much smoother and stable most of the tuning is, when compared with the Unique Melody ME1. Here is the FlaresPro frequency response graph :

"Despite the harsher upper treble on the Pro than the Gold, its still interesting to see how much smoother and stable most of the tuning is, when compared with the Unique Melody ME1"

Be careful not to jump to conclusions when comparing measurement graphs from different setups. Scale and smoothing are frequently different, which is definitely the case in your comparison.

Read more about the pitfalls of scaling, resolution and smoothing:
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/audio-measurements

 

[majo123]

Finally managed to send my flarespro back yesterday should be there by Monday, I'm hoping that even if there's no obvious signs of fault they replace the drivers at least then I can work out if tuning or not.
Fingers crossed.

 

[holden4th]

A good post from you Arysyn regarding why we use high end audio products the way we do. I don't judge high end audio by price but rather by the ability to deliver the goods.

Even though I don't work as one, I am a musician who can play a number of instruments. For me, faithful reproduction of the tones and timbres of an instrument is paramount and this includes the human voice. I can listen to a concert pianist and who can, by simply hitting the keys the right way, bring out strong emotions in me. There are other pianists who can play the same notes but simply leave me disinterested. The same goes for the headphones I use. I want emotional engagement with the music but not at the cost of poor tonality. My original set of higher end iems did this but they were somewhat coloured and there was also a 'veil' across the music. This was the Sennheiser IE80s. However, they did engage me with the music.

The step up to the R2As was huge and not that much more expensive considering I also got these used for $US250. Their ability to reproduce classical music, my favourite genre, is what sold me on them. I also liked their bass for EDM, Deep House and Rock tracks. Quite clean and with considerable punch. A tiny bit lacking in sub bass I discovered when listening to some organ music. What was amazing was the out of head experience that I didn't get from the IE80s but I do get from my vintage HD580s.

So what am i expecting from the Pros? Things such as:

the deep and resonant rasp as a bow is drawn across the bottom string of a cello.

The pure and accurate harmonics from the strings of a Bosendorfer piano

the sound of a voice that comes from the diaphragm of the singer

The clear bass line, note for note, by Robbie Shakespeare on Grace Jones Nightclubbin album.

Peter Gabriels voice without any harshness in "Sledgehammer"

and so on without losing the thread of the music. I want this to happen naturally

I'll be running FLAC files through my iMac via the Fiio E7/E9 DAC/Amp combo. I'll also play CDs via the Mac.

Finally, while the Golds are amazing, I'm saving for a trip to the UK next year. Maybe I can visit Davies and the team in South Lansing and a pair of Golds might fall into my pocket.

 

[Arysyn]

A good post from you Arysyn regarding why we use high end audio products the way we do. I don't judge high end audio by price but rather by the ability to deliver the goods.

Even though I don't work as one, I am a musician who can play a number of instruments. For me, faithful reproduction of the tones and timbres of an instrument is paramount and this includes the human voice. I can listen to a concert pianist and who can, by simply hitting the keys the right way, bring out strong emotions in me. There are other pianists who can play the same notes but simply leave me disinterested. The same goes for the headphones I use. I want emotional engagement with the music but not at the cost of poor tonality. My original set of higher end iems did this but they were somewhat coloured and there was also a 'veil' across the music. This was the Sennheiser IE80s. However, they did engage me with the music.

The step up to the R2As was huge and not that much more expensive considering I also got these used for $US250. Their ability to reproduce classical music, my favourite genre, is what sold me on them. I also liked their bass for EDM, Deep House and Rock tracks. Quite clean and with considerable punch. A tiny bit lacking in sub bass I discovered when listening to some organ music. What was amazing was the out of head experience that I didn't get from the IE80s but I do get from my vintage HD580s.

So what am i expecting from the Pros? Things such as:

the deep and resonant rasp as a bow is drawn across the bottom string of a cello.

The pure and accurate harmonics from the strings of a Bosendorfer piano

the sound of a voice that comes from the diaphragm of the singer

The clear bass line, note for note, by Robbie Shakespeare on Grace Jones Nightclubbin album.

Peter Gabriels voice without any harshness in "Sledgehammer"

and so on without losing the thread of the music. I want this to happen naturally

I'll be running FLAC files through my iMac via the Fiio E7/E9 DAC/Amp combo. I'll also play CDs via the Mac.

Finally, while the Golds are amazing, I'm saving for a trip to the UK next year. Maybe I can visit Davies and the team in South Lansing and a pair of Golds might fall into my pocket.

Peter Gabriel is amazing! I listen to one of his song's as my test track for bass, which is "Curtains". I discovered it from the beautiful Myst 4 Revelation game based in the Serenia dream chamber light sequence. I often think back to his funny "Barry Williams Show" music video too.

One thing I really respect of so many people here on Head-Fi is the care in what they love here with audio products. Yes price is a consideration, but when I read these threads it isn't the focal point, like I never read here stuff such as "I really love the FlaresGold, but why couldn't it cost $499 or maybe like $399. I'd like it so much better if only it were cheaper."

I'm quite active on tech communities about mobile devices, and stuff like that is very regular. They certain don't have the obvious appreciation of mobile the way people here on Head-Fi do of audio. It baffles me how many people in the mobile community analyze almost every feature to what they think its worth in price, rather than looking at the lifestyle value these provide.

By all means, I'm not rich. Yet I do appreciate quality and I look for that when I buy something, just that I don't buy alot of that, such as I don't need several Porsche Design Huawei Mate 10 RS at $2200 each, or several FlaresGold or Empire Zeus, etc. Also, coupon codes are very helpful too, just so they never become the requirement, otherwise it hinders the real value in what you're buying it for.

I could go on about my dislike for how the economic system is set up and everything. I won't here, but if anyone is interested in my thinking, check out The Zeitgeist Movement online. Some really interesting perspectives that would allow us to easily access things like the fancy iems here. Works kinda like the neat neat trading system here at Head-Fi when thinking of it.

holden, I think you'll like the Pro based on what you wrote, just that I feel I must mention the treble. It may not really be an issue for you, but its good to point it out. Of course the Gold falling into your pocket would be nice. Also when you go to the UK, definitely go visit Flare! If were going to the UK I know I would. I'd beg them to teach me how to tune an iem and measurements so I could get back here in the U.S. and find someone to help me build an iem for the areas I'd need help with due to my health. I've seen photos of iem development before and the dexterity involved is something I just couldn't do on my own. Still, I'd love to have help and see what could be produced.

 

[spinrite]

Sell me on your experiences with the Golds who own them that they will sound better then my etys ER4S amped. If anyone here can justify it, i will buy them.
We’ll see who’s the first person on here that can tempt me to get the Golds and replace my beloved etys. (I have my doubts about it)

 

[HiFlight]

Sell me on your experiences with the Golds who own them that they will sound better then my etys ER4S amped. If anyone here can justify it, i will buy them.
We’ll see who’s the first person on here that can tempt me to get the Golds and replace my beloved etys. (I have my doubts about it)

I have owned the ER4S, ER4B and ER4PT. While I have enjoyed them all for the things they did well, comparing them to the Golds is not a fair fight. The Golds simply have a more visceral impact with fuller (not brighter or bassier) mids and highs that are somewhat similar to the Ety's but not as thin. Instrumental timbre and tonality of the Golds create that intangible sense of realism that I did not experience with my Etys, with the possible exception of the binaural recordings I made for use with my ER4B.

 

[spinrite]

how’s the seal on them compared to the deep insertion of the etys? Would they be good for outdoor listening in somewhat noisy areas?

 

[Arysyn]

how’s the seal on them compared to the deep insertion of the etys? Would they be good for outdoor listening in somewhat noisy areas?

The seal is as good as the Etys if you have the right tips for it. I use the Spinfit Twinblade model CP240 Large, which you can purchase on Amazon, here :
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06X3VT9F9/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[spinrite]

thanks HiFlight and Arysyn for your thoughts and feedback.

Klipsch has these oval eartips and designed with the thoughts that are ear canals are oval, in theroy giving a better fit, no?



http://www.klipsch.ca/products/oval-ear-tips

 

[HiFlight]

thanks HiFlight and Arysyn for your thoughts and feedback.

Klipsch has these oval eartips and designed with the thoughts that are ear canals are oval, in theroy giving a better fit, no?



http://www.klipsch.ca/products/oval-ear-tips

I have some Klipsch ovals but the neck bore is very small. I don't think they will stretch to fit the Flares. I did use them on and off with my Ety's.

 

[Arysyn]

Sell me on your experiences with the Golds who own them that they will sound better then my etys ER4S amped. If anyone here can justify it, i will buy them.
We’ll see who’s the first person on here that can tempt me to get the Golds and replace my beloved etys. (I have my doubts about it)

spinrite, neither I nor anyone here can guarantee you will like the FlaresGold better than the Etymotic iems, but I can tell you at least that in my opinion the FlaresGold are much better than them. If you read the past six pages of this thread, you will see me write in immense, precise detail about the FlaresGold. Also, I have my own highly rated review of the FlaresGold, written here : https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flares-gold-by-flare-audio.23024/reviews#review-20112.

If I haven't convinced you by that, then I'll be damn surprised. For now though, I can tell you that the FlaresGold is an amazing iem for the way its tuned, and as you mentioned earlier - the fit.

Also, please let us know you sound signature preferences from the bass, mids, vocals, lower treble, upper treble, detail, space, oh the definition of the bass, whether you like alot of bass quantity that goes into affecting the mids, or keeping the bass back to where it provides just enough dynamism for the emotion in the music to be heard and felt, or if you like it dry so that your hearing the crispest, fastest sound needed for music such as metal.

 

[Arysyn]

I have owned the ER4S, ER4B and ER4PT. While I have enjoyed them all for the things they did well, comparing them to the Golds is not a fair fight. The Golds simply have a more visceral impact with fuller (not brighter or bassier) mids and highs that are somewhat similar to the Ety's but not as thin. Instrumental timbre and tonality of the Golds create that intangible sense of realism that I did not experience with my Etys, with the possible exception of the binaural recordings I made for use with my ER4B.

Are you meaning a more dynamic, emotional sound when describing the FlaresGold as having a more visceral impact, HiFlight?

I'd say the bass is fuller on the FlaresGold than on the Etymotic, due to the nature of them being dynamic driver-based of the FlaresGold, in contrast to the weaker bass of the Etymotic balanced armature drivers. Although bass quantity is about the same. The bass adds just enough dynamism to help define the emotional tuning to the vocals on the FlaresGold, but there isn't any boomyness to the sound through the mids - no bass bleed into them at all. Even within the bass range I wouldn't classify the bass as strong. Actually seems like less bass to me than the FlaresPro had, rather much more akin to the bass of the R2A.

The mids and vocals themselves are stronger than on the Etymotics, though I'm not sure on the comparison regarding forwardness. I don't remember the vocals on the Etymotics being recessed at all, or if so certainly not by much. The FlaresGold definitely does not have recessed vocals for sure.

The area I can't really compare between the FlaresGold and the Etymotics are the treble-related sound profiles. I don't remember the detail, space, and speed levels of the Etymotics. Possibly because as with all of the balanced armature driver-based iems I've heard, I've been disappointed in how all of them sound like they're lacking emotional impact from the weak level dynamism caused by the nature of the balanced armature drivers.

 

[spinrite]

Arysyn, appreciate all the insight your providing on the flares gold but i’m torn with how HiFlight and you are describing these iems. My style of music is mostly new and old jazz and classic rock occasionally. Also i’m not a fan of the warm slanted sounding iem’s, i’m a big fan of somewhat neutral balanced sounds.

Quoted from HiFlight
“The Golds simply have a more visceral impact with fuller (not brighter or bassier) mids and highs that are somewhat similar to the Ety's but not as thin. Instrumental timbre and tonality of the Golds create that intangible sense of realism that I did not experience with my Etys, with the possible exception of the binaural recordings I made for use with my ER4B.”

I hear all of this with my etys er4s amped as you mention with the flaresgold, call me crazy if you will, maybe i’m best not to know how much better the sound can be over my etys. I get all the nice balanced sounds across the spectrum from deep tight, clean bass with plenty of body and depth, excellent mids and highs all with excellent imaging and separation. Plus, it sounds as close to real live studio quality music as you can find without being there in person. Maybe my technique and fitment with the insertion is getting the best out of these iem’s that no one else can get that’s making the difference. Like i said call me nuts for not believing that nothing can surpass the er4s sound. I can’t say i’m with the understanding how others describe the sound of the etys as lifeless and thin. I just don’t get that impression when properly inserted and running with a amp.
I wish there was a way to audition these FlaresGold out.