[Arysyn]

Arysyn, appreciate all the insight your providing on the flares gold but i’m torn with how HiFlight and you are describing these iems. My style of music is mostly new and old jazz and classic rock occasionally. Also i’m not a fan of the warm slanted sounding iem’s, i’m a big fan of somewhat neutral balanced sounds.

Quoted from HiFlight
“The Golds simply have a more visceral impact with fuller (not brighter or bassier) mids and highs that are somewhat similar to the Ety's but not as thin. Instrumental timbre and tonality of the Golds create that intangible sense of realism that I did not experience with my Etys, with the possible exception of the binaural recordings I made for use with my ER4B.”

I hear all of this with my etys er4s amped as you mention with the flaresgold, call me crazy if you will, maybe i’m best not to know how much better the sound can be over my etys. I get all the nice balanced sounds across the spectrum from deep tight, clean bass with plenty of body and depth, excellent mids and highs all with excellent imaging and separation. Plus, it sounds as close to real live studio quality music as you can find without being there in person. Maybe my technique and fitment with the insertion is getting the best out of these iem’s that no one else can get that’s making the difference. Like i said call me nuts for not believing that nothing can surpass the er4s sound. I can’t say i’m with the understanding how others describe the sound of the etys as lifeless and thin. I just don’t get that impression when properly inserted and running with a amp.
I wish there was a way to audition these FlaresGold out.

spinrite, based on what information you've written to me about here, I'm now quite confident you'll love the FlaresGold.

If you are concerned about the price, you can try to see if the coupon code GOLDEN still works. That takes a few hundred $ off the price. Then consider that Flare Audio gives a 30-day trial.

Also, what I can say is different between the Etymotic and the FlaresGold, is with all ba drivers I've heard, again they seem to lack depth of emotional dynamism in contrast to speed and a certain clarity I notice with ba drivers. You've got to keep in mind too, the FlaresGold are not the typical dynamic driver either. Most are bassy, veiled recessed mids, vocals seemingly hollow, then treble that can vary wildly from one dd iem to another.

The FlaresGold probably are the closest thing you'll find to an Etymotic in dd driver form. I know this because I've had several of the Etymotics. Actually I live about a 45 minute drive from their hq. They are quite nice too. Yet so are the people at Flare Audio, who gracefully accepted my FlaresPro back, because there is too much emphasis in the upper treble range. I went from thinking it was an error in tuning to thinking perhaps Flare deliberately made it that way to produce a slight V shape turn to it in order to capture the V shape enthusiasts over to Flare's more mid-centric sound.

However, the FlaresGold goes further away from the V-shape. Its less bassy than the FlaresGold and it has a lighter, yet still powerful treble - I suspect possibly Flare may have reduced the upper treble while increasing the lower treble from the FlaresPro, which would still give it great detail without as much harshness.

The other thing is, I'm not suggesting the FlaresPro had an inherent V-Shape. Not really. Its mire of their own twist, where instead of boosting the upper part of the bass and lower part of the treble, they went for the subbass and upper treble increase, which don't interfere as much in the mids, which definitely are not recessed on the FlaresPro. Again with the FlaresGold, those extensions are diminished, with the exception perhaps Flare may have increased the lower treble.

I won't know for sure until Flare gets their new testing equipment ready and updates me with the frequency response graph for the FlaresGold. I have one for the FlaresPro I'll share here, but remember - since you're an Ety fan, you are likely not to like the FlaresPro on the basis of conversion, since you're looking for something more similar. The FlaresGold are more for you.

Well, here is the FlaresPro frequency response graph. You can take what information I gave to you about the FlaresGold and figure what its measurements "might" be like based on this :

 

[Arysyn]

Alright I have a request to make here to other FlaresGold owners. Before I do though, I'm going to say this - I admit while I am quite technical speaking of various sound signature elements with frequency response measurements and such, there is one area where I'm still not completely aware or knowledgeable of, and I'd like some help understanding. I'm speaking of the various details of space and stage.

I'm able to perceive instrument separation, the 3d scope in relation to intimate staging or larger. What I'm still not clear on is how exactly to tell width vs height vs depth, although specifically. Its easy for me to tell a small space vs a large space with some degree of a 3d sound, but I really want to get beyond that in my audio knowledge. It'll help me to give better detail in describing iems to people who ask me, as spinrite has here. I'd really like to help him with the description of what I'm hearing with the FlaresGold.

Right now, I'm listening to Tidal. There is a new song by artist Ruelle, called Revolution, very powerful song with strong female vocals. Also there is a sense of strong spacing to this song in a very 3d-like atmosphere. Although, I'd really like to describe it better than that. So, if anyone with Tidal and the FlaresGold could take a listen to it and give me some description of the various staging elements to this song, it would really help me. I suppose the FlaresPro might do fine too, as there doesn't appear to be any cymbals and tambourines in the mix.

Again, the song is Revolution, by artist Ruelle. Its on an album called Unsecret.

 

[holden4th]

Space and stage for me are best defined in chamber music and string quartets are a great example. If I've got a really good stage width I'll hear the 1st violin on the outside of my left ear and the cello similarly place on the right. The second violin and viola will be more central but still have a left and right presence. I'll also be able to hear that both of those instruments are set back a bit from the other two. If the two outer instruments are more towards my ears or even in my head then the stage could be described as narrow. Stage width seems to be able to be more easily achieved than stage depth in my experience

If I have good spatial definition then all four instruments will occupy their own particular spot in space without their sound bleeding into any of the others. This is a wonderful experience if it can be fully achieved.

 

[spinrite]

Space and stage for me are best defined in chamber music and string quartets are a great example. If I've got a really good stage width I'll hear the 1st violin on the outside of my left ear and the cello similarly place on the right. The second violin and viola will be more central but still have a left and right presence. I'll also be able to hear that both of those instruments are set back a bit from the other two. If the two outer instruments are more towards my ears or even in my head then the stage could be described as narrow. Stage width seems to be able to be more easily achieved than stage depth in my experience

If I have good spatial definition then all four instruments will occupy their own particular spot in space without their sound bleeding into any of the others. This is a wonderful experience if it can be fully achieved.

Well i did a bit of testing using Tidal app on the HIFI setting quality on my Ipad Pro and you guys seem to be right the etys although very detailed have a soundstage that’s very narrow? more inside the confines between my ears? nothing as wide as the sense of outside the head experience, as your describing. All the talk conversation of 3D like atmosphere, higher level of spatial separations and wider soundstage made me think i’m missing out on another level of real musical adventure i might be seeking after-all. In turn, i went for it and broke out my wallet and going down the same path as all of you guys here for the pursuit of audio nervana.

Big thanks to Arysyn for giving out that coupon code offer, works like magic, took a couple of hundred of dollars off this purchase. It’s awesome, really appreciate it. How does it make you feel though that you paid full price for yours? Or no?

 

[spinrite]

I always told myself i wouldn’t ever need anything better then the ER4S, let’s hope the FlaresGold’s are my iem’s i’m hoping they can be.

I knew i should’ve stayed away from this thread!!

 

[spinrite]

You think these are as good as the HiFiMan RE2000? What’s another $1000 at this point??

 

[spinrite]

How come there isn’t a lot of said or reviews online about the Golds? I’m not saying that Arysyns review isn’t fantastic but not a lot of audiophiles are talking about these?

 

[barondla]

How come there isn’t a lot of said or reviews online about the Golds? I’m not saying that Arysyns review isn’t fantastic but not a lot of audiophiles are talking about these?

Flare Audio is a fairly new brand in headphone audio. It takes time to compete with HiFiMan, Etymotic, and Sennheisers for popularity. They all struggle to compete against Beats.

There is also a time delay for "professional" magazine and web reviews. I had Mitchell & Johnson headphones 4 months or more before reviews appeared. It isn't easy for the small companies.

 

[Arysyn]

Well i did a bit of testing using Tidal app on the HIFI setting quality on my Ipad Pro and you guys seem to be right the etys although very detailed have a soundstage that’s very narrow? more inside the confines between my ears? nothing as wide as the sense of outside the head experience, as your describing. All the talk conversation of 3D like atmosphere, higher level of spatial separations and wider soundstage made me think i’m missing out on another level of real musical adventure i might be seeking after-all. In turn, i went for it and broke out my wallet and going down the same path as all of you guys here for the pursuit of audio nervana.

Big thanks to Arysyn for giving out that coupon code offer, works like magic, took a couple of hundred of dollars off this purchase. It’s awesome, really appreciate it. How does it make you feel though that you paid full price for yours? Or no?

I used the GOLDEN code for mine, though even if I hadn't and paid full price, still plenty worth it. I'll respond more in a bit.

 

[Arysyn]

You think these are as good as the HiFiMan RE2000? What’s another $1000 at this point??

Alrighty, now I have some time for a better response.

First off, I'm really glad you ordered the FlaresGold and that the coupon code worked out well for you, spinrite. I'm not sure what exactly the other Head-Fi members here are telling you about the FlaresGold, spinrite, but some of them are using it with the included Bluetooth box, which you can alternatively use the FlaresGold wirelessly, not just through the 3.5mm headphone input.

However, I DO NOT recommend using it through the Bluetooth option, as it just isn't the same sound. The staging sounds more intimate, the dynamism is weaker, its just sort of bleh! Although certainly no offense meant to people who do like the Bluetooth. Regardless though, its not the same sound as through the wired connection.

spinrite, also consider that people use different sources, which can alter the tuning differently. If you want the awesome tuning I get with mine, I highly recommend the Meridian Explorer2 dac, which you can get on Amazon, here https://www.amazon.com/Meridian-FBA_Explorer-2-Explorer2-USB/dp/B00Q6VQGS2

Also, I strongly suggest buying those $10 Spinfit TwinBlade CP240 Large eartips, particularly because it can give you that same deep seal as the Etymotics do. I can't speak for the included eartips, nor other dacs that are not Meridian Explorer2.

I had an interesting experience Monday night going to the movie theater. I ate prior to the movie, which was for convenience, but isn't the best idea for my muscle atrophy connected with my severe neuropathic condition. I get clenched muscles after eating and generally feel pretty horrible. However, I thought ahead and brought my Morphine prescription with me, along with my Grado GR-8, because I didn't want to wreck the FlaresGold in the bathroom of the movie theater, nor get a bunch of water on it.

I hadn't listened to the Grado in a while, and noticing the awful music through the speaker system in the bathroom, I was really glad I brought something to help make my medication process easier. Yet was I shocked by how disappointed I was in the Grado.

Considering the GR-8 has "moving armature drivers'", which essentially is mostly like balanced armatures, it did have quite a different tuning than the FlaresGold. The mids/vocals were just as forward, but it was missing the dynamic power of the FlaresGold. It did however remind me of the advantage to ba driver iems in playing metal. There is a raw sharpness and clarity that the FlaresGold gets to a point, but cannot completely mimic because the sound is warmer in adding that dynamic sound that has its own advantages to metal, but not that same "edge"

Still, listening to the FlaresGold is preferrable to me know because it has more power in its ability to push through the emotion of music to you when you listen, in a way ba drivers just cannot do.

spinrite, in taking this into consideration, I can't say you will completely replace your Etymotics with the FlaresGold, depending on your taste in metal and possibly really fast songs, such as certain Epic Orchestra music, like Two Steps From Hell, Thomas Bergersen, Amethystium, and others. I still have not yet listened to that music with the FlaresGold, but I think I'll do that in a moment, maybe add Nightwish to that and give you a better perspective on those, because that music does sound really good through ba drivers, that raw speed they have. I'll test the FlaresGold with those and report back in a bit.

Anyways before I finish writing this post here, I can say that if you decide to get the Meridian Explorer 2 and those particular Spinfits (not other ones), you'll very likely love the FlaresGold. If not the Meridian dac, try to find one that is less bassy with a Cirrus Logic chipset.

 

[holden4th]

I'm going to go back to the soundstage discussion.

The Flare R2As were the first iems that gave me the 'out of head" experience. While my IE80s sounded good the stage was narrow and there was almost no depth. The Flares just blew them out of the water and they weren't that much more expensive. It was like I was there in the concert hall for orchestral works and in the salon for chamber recitals. They also showed up deficiencies in recording quality. Listening to Anime Eterna's much hyped recording of Carmina Burana for the first time through the Flares I noticed that the tenor soloist on a few tracks couldn't stay in one place. He moved gradually from centre left to centre right and back again. Whether he was actually wandering around the stage (which I don't believe as soloists stay in one spot in choral works) the recording companies mastering was obviously not as good as it should have been. This was all down to the R2As ability to pinpoint a soloist. I am hoping that the Pros are even better than this and that have an even deeper soundstage than the R2s.

 

[Arysyn]

Alright, another post from me here to this thread -
The FlaresGold are absolutely freakin' transformative!

I discovered something I really should have done back when preparing to write my review, which is to expand on my comparisons between the FlaresGold and the balanced armature driver-based iems I've heard. My focus in doing comparisons for the review was so heavily concentrated on other dynamic driver-based iems, because there is a huge difference between most of them and the FlaresGold.

spinrite, I'm really glad you're asking the questions you are. Besides my trying to help you with the FlaresGold, which I really like doing, I'm also glad for your questions leading me to listening more in depth of variety in the music I have that otherwise I would have put off on. Specifically though, the music I'm now listening to is of songs that happened to sound really good with balanced armature iems, whereas the songs I've tested before are the slower, more emotional-type that are better played through dynamic iems.

The songs in particular I'm now testing, are :
The Main Piano Theme from Westworld (HBO series)
Merchant Prince by Thomas Bergersen
Dreammaker by Thomas Bergersen
Dreamdance by Amethystium

All of those songs, other than the Westworld one, are fast paced Epic Orchestral/Electronic Surreal Ambient

Starting with The Main Piano Theme from Westworld, while ba drivers don't have the atmospheric levels in the sound of the song as dd drivers, what they do have is the crispness, especially in the individual strokes of the piano keys, which make them sound as if they're being pressed really close by. I suppose it could be said there is some air to it, in the way the key press comes off sounding so crisp and clean there is that sense of space to it that seems as if you're there.

However, you won't hear that through many dynamic driver iems. The reason for this being that there is so much emphasis on bass with them. That, and then there are the plethora of those awful V-Shaped iems that have a heavy, mid-bleeding upper bass and heavy lower treble - which actually I really don't mind a boost in the lower treble, just so that it doesn't expand beyond that into the mid treble, and even worse - into the upper treble.

The FlaresPro has somewhat of a harsh upper treble as you can see by the frequency response graph of it I posted a few posts ago. Thankfully the FlaresGold does not have harsh treble. I suspect Flare Audio reduced that, possibly also increasing the lower treble for added detail - the lower treble being not quite as prone to harshness as the upper treble can be.

Despite the V-Shape increasing detail on many of the dd iems, its almost as if there isn't any difference than if the treble remained flat neutral or less, because of the increase in bass quantity and how so many of them bleed into the mids. its such a destructive force not only in the area I talk so much about, as its very important to me in music - the mids/vocals, but also can weaken details and of course the atmosphere with its boomy hollowness and its complete lack of clarity.

That is one thing the ba driver iems I've heard do not have a problem with, in regards to bass boom and its wreckful nature on details and clarity, along with not forming the hollowness in the mids, which lead to vocals sounding as if they're resonating deep beyond down a tunnel. There is nothing I dislike more in music than recessed mids/vocals. Its even worse to me than boomy bass quantity.

So, I think I described how the Grado GR-8 did well in producing the detail and clarity of the piano keys, while resonating a similar atmosphere that often is present from balanced armature drivers... Now, while most dynamic driver iems do not reproduce this level of detail and clarity, one gets as close to it that it can, without sacrificing the dynamic emotional atmosphere that does reduce some level of clarity in exchange for the necessary warmth to produce this atmosphere, which the FlaresGold does without making it boomy and all the other horrible things associated with most dynamic driver iems, particularly those that are V-Shaped.

Still, I'd say there are two things that the Grado GR-8 does better than the FlaresGold, and to spinrite - you might still want to listen to the Etymotics for these purposes, if you must hear them for these reasons, rather than the emotional dynamics of the FlaresGold. Those are in terms of rawness to the sound, particularly metal, in which carries a bit clearer, sharper detail - though that is a tradeoff from the dynamics of the FlaresGold. I remember the Etymotic iems had an almost identical sound signature to the Grado GR-8 in these regards. So, you can contrast this as you'd like to your considerations.

The last issue - the one I believe is least important, is speed. The ba driver iems may make the music sound a bit faster and energetic than the FlaresGold, but not by much. Its a bigger difference when comparing it to those V-Shaped dynamic driver iems. In the case of the FlaresGold though, as I've written alot here lately, its a matter for the FlaresGold of maintaining the warm dynamically emotional atmosphere, while also presenting more of those ba driver qualities than what most dd driver iems - many that are V-Shaped, can offer.

I listened to all of the songs I listed, which actually I've listened to countless times on many various iems, and can say in complete confidence knowing the FlaresGold simply is the best sounding iem I've ever heard. I could even hear some instrumental detail in those songs l have never heard before at all on any other iem, with no harshness present!

 

[Arysyn]

I'm going to go back to the soundstage discussion.

The Flare R2As were the first iems that gave me the 'out of head" experience. While my IE80s sounded good the stage was narrow and there was almost no depth. The Flares just blew them out of the water and they weren't that much more expensive. It was like I was there in the concert hall for orchestral works and in the salon for chamber recitals. They also showed up deficiencies in recording quality. Listening to Anime Eterna's much hyped recording of Carmina Burana for the first time through the Flares I noticed that the tenor soloist on a few tracks couldn't stay in one place. He moved gradually from centre left to centre right and back again. Whether he was actually wandering around the stage (which I don't believe as soloists stay in one spot in choral works) the recording companies mastering was obviously not as good as it should have been. This was all down to the R2As ability to pinpoint a soloist. I am hoping that the Pros are even better than this and that have an even deeper soundstage than the R2s.

You're right about the 3d in-person atmosphere of Flare Audio iems, holden. They're quite surreal.

 

[holden4th]

Now that the Flares Pro are on the way I've had a bit more of a look at the BT system that comes with them.

They all mention that it is capable of connecting with and utilising devices with the aptX 4.1 BT codec. Supposedly this realises 320kbps MP3. Sounds great but all my devices with BT streaming are Apple and at this point they have not included the AptX codec in any of their iOS updates. Instead, Apple uses it's own proprietary BT codec which is AAC. This can go up to 250kbps but research strongly suggest that this is the same quality as 320kbps MP3. This, of course, begs the obvious question - will the BT module that comes with the Flares Pro recognise AAC and play AAC? What I'm asking is have any of you connected your iPhone or iPad to Flares BT module at a higher bitrate than the standard and crappy SBC that comes with most Apple and Android BT devices.

 

[Arysyn]

I'm not sure about all that it supports, though if you're thinking of using Bluetooth, I can't really recommend the included module. Better to find one that 5.0 with all the codecs you're looking for, to get some better quality from it.