[olor1n]

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I'm listening to the HD650's through the E7/E9 combo, work fine for me. I'm sure there are better amps that will make the 650 even shine more, but I honestly believe that for the price paid, you can't get better sound then the FiiO combo. I drives them very decently, way better then unamped.
 
But the 'veil', or laid back, dark sound or whatever people describe it, is also a part of the sound signature the HD650 gives. Like it or not (I appreciate it for what it is), but those characteristics will not change.
 

I'm sure the E9 is a good amp but I bet if you had a better DAC than the E7 you may not be so accepting of this so called "veil".

 

[ACDOAN]

I am in the same boat with the OP even though I use the jack HP ouput  from my PIO a 35R, the HD650 is somewhat muddy unless I jack around with the tone control which I do not like to do. I felt like being in a warm and stuffy room with the HD 595/HD650.  Sounds like some old NAD gear .
 
ANW, I save up some $$$ for the Burson since they are a bit bright that will lit up the Senn signature sound.  I learned that much from 6moons. 

 

[Proglover]

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Quote:

I'm listening to the HD650's through the E7/E9 combo, work fine for me. I'm sure there are better amps that will make the 650 even shine more, but I honestly believe that for the price paid, you can't get better sound then the FiiO combo. I drives them very decently, way better then unamped.
 
But the 'veil', or laid back, dark sound or whatever people describe it, is also a part of the sound signature the HD650 gives. Like it or not (I appreciate it for what it is), but those characteristics will not change.
 

I'm sure the E9 is a good amp but I bet if you had a better DAC than the E7 you may not be so accepting of this so called "veil".

maybe my understanding of what is meant by 'veil' is not as it should, but I'm not wrong to say that the 650's are a bit dark sounding (f.e. in comparison with HD600, which I did), laid back in sound (as opposed to f.e. my Grado's or DT990) etc.?
 
I'm sure a better DAC would make the can shine better and also there are offcourse better amps for it then a E9.
 
Offcourse I have nothing else to compare to but it's un(extra)amped sound or a simple pa2v2, which aren't by far enough to drive this 300 ohm thingie to satisfactory levels.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

If they're "muddy" in the sense that there's no definition to the bass, it could be 1) a weak amp, 2) source (low-res decoding) or 3) source material (low res, EQ, etc)
 
If they sound "veiled," like listening to speakers behind a shower curtain where even the high freqs are "muddied," you should first consider removing the foam between the driver and the ear pad. If they're still muddy, look at 1 to 3.
 
Also, a year or so down the line, check the pads. Old, worn pads degrade the sound because they affect how close the drivers are to your ears and the density can affect sound dispersion.
 
 
As for using the E7/E9 DAC-Amp combo, as much as these are bang for the buck, just one consideration: they don't allow much expansion. Meaning the the E9 has only a 3.5mm input and USB input for the docked E7. It's not really a deal-breaker, but more info couldn't hurt. For just a little more there's the Maverick D1, which can take digital inputs via USB, Coax and Optical, and output a signal through the HP-out, fixed analog line out to an amp, or variable out to a power amp for speakers. Tried that with my de-foamed HD600 and they had more high frequency response than my SR225, although at the time the pads were on their way out. With fresh pads the SR225's are now brighter though that also means they lack the smooth detail the HD600 has.
 

 

[jasonb]

muddy bass definitely means they are underpowered unless of course the song is just a muddy sounding song. a lot of stuff is recorded like poop these days, but if all of your music sounds muddy then it's most likely that they are way underpowered. clean sounding music definitely sounds clean when they are properly amped.

 

[olor1n]

Based on the OP's other threads it looks like he'll be investing more in an aftermarket cable than his amp and dac combined.

I don't believe you need to spend big to find gear that has great synergy with the HD650, but I feel it would be a disservice to not point out how misguided this guy's priorities are.

OP, if you really must part with your money, I implore you to direct your funds towards gear that'll show you what the HD650 is really capable of. I'm sure there are amps and dacs in the bracket above the Fiio combo that represent just as much bang for buck.

 

[junebug654]

Olor1n:  I know I will be investing in an aftermarket cable and the only reason is because I don't want to break the bank with an amp/dac.  I want a quality dac/amp that isn't too expensive like the fiio combo and just a cable.  Now I've listened to other cables than the stock cable for the HD 650 and I firmly believe that the SQ is improved with a new cable.  The Equinox really shined out some of the weaker points of the 650, as where I didn't like the Zu.  I felt it's punicher sound and bass was a bit too much than what I'm looking for.  Thats why I was asking questions about the SD cable because I want to hear reviews about it before I jump into a $200 cable.

 

[iancraig10]

Try turning the volume up and listening.
 
IMO these headphones work better when they are louder whereas many other headphones can turn nasty and edgy, these don't. Your impression of treble response (and bass) will change if you listen a bit louder. I turn up until the bass kind of focuses and then they seem fine. At low levels, they don't seem to cut through as well as other (more treble biased) headphones.

 

[junebug654]

I'm already using these on max volume.  But like I said before right this moment they are unamped.  I'm just wondering if they veil disappears with louder volumes and the use of a DAC and a powerful amp.

 

[Yoga Flame]

I've tried using my HD650s straight out of an iPod. It's not awful, and I can still hear the 650 sound signature in there, but a lot of the sonic details are gone. The bass doesn't hit as hard and is less controlled. Turning the volume up on the iPod louder than normal helps a bit.
 
When I use my 650s out of a proper amp, I don't have those problems. A nice DAC to go with the amp makes it even better, of course.
 
 
 
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I'm already using these on max volume.  But like I said before right this moment they are unamped.  I'm just wondering if they veil disappears with louder volumes and the use of a DAC and a powerful amp.

 

[chadbang]

Did you have a chance to compare them to Grados. Those might be your cans...

 

[GeorgeGoodman]

Quote:

Based on the OP's other threads it looks like he'll be investing more in an aftermarket cable than his amp and dac combined.

I don't believe you need to spend big to find gear that has great synergy with the HD650, but I feel it would be a disservice to not point out how misguided this guy's priorities are.

OP, if you really must part with your money, I implore you to direct your funds towards gear that'll show you what the HD650 is really capable of. I'm sure there are amps and dacs in the bracket above the Fiio combo that represent just as much bang for buck.

I respectfully disagree and will throw out a few options. One, See where you are at when the Fiio E9 and E7 come. Two, if you are still not satisfied, try removing the foam right in front of the drivers, as many have tried this with success. Three, is all else fails, buy used, be patient, and DIY or have someone DIY, especially for cables. These strategies have really helped me. If you are looking for something, wait until it comes up used somewhere, and then jump on it. 

 

[ajreynol]

^ I don't know about those recommendations. Not because they won't work, but because they void his warranty. At this point, he can probably still send them back. I'd stay away from recommendations that put him in the position to not be able to return or easily resell them.  I'd rather someone try to get the best out of them using conventional means (better amps and dacs) than to start modding something unless they know they want to keep them.  And in that, he has to decide how much he's willing to spend to see if they will sound any better.  My limit was the NuForce Icon HDP.  It gave the 650 a slightly fuller sound (compared to the E7+E9), but it doesn't change the character of the cans.  Nothing can change their character. They ARE smooth.  They ARE laid back.  They ARE sleepy.  If that's not for you, it's not sensible to implore someone to spend $1,000 to make their $300 headphones sound worthwhile. 
 
IMO, of course.

 
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Just got the HD 650s and I love them.  The soundstage blows away my HD 598s outa the water.  The only beef I have with these cans is I can understand how something people say "boring" because right now the sound is decently thick.  Like a veil or just like listening to something behind a wall.  It's clear, but has that sound like I'm putting cardboard between my ears and the headphones.  Now the problem could be that I'm plugging this cans stright into my laptop with no amp.  This is because my amp is still coming down in the mail and should arrive soon.  But my question is will an amp and new dac improve the sound quality, for example eliminating this veil?

 
I ultimately returned mine because of this. It has a very mellow, sleepy "smoothed" feel to it.  It's not for everyone.  I think every time I put the cans on, they started putting me to sleep. Not exaggerating.  Bests I can recommend is a different DAC/Amp if you want to stay with them...but they won't change their core character.  That character...well...you will either love or be apathetic towards.  I gave them a longer trial than most and definitely wouldn't be considered as someone who didn't try to love them (almost a month and 3 different dac/amp combos).  They have their pros and cons to my ears...but ultimately, I found a more enjoyable experience in greener pastures.  Good luck on your decision-making.  It's not fun when you can't compare these cans in stores and decide.  To be reliant on reviews and forum poster just plain sucks.  Nature of this particular beast, though.

 

[jasonb]

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It has a very mellow, sleepy "smoothed" feel to it.  It's not for everyone.  I think every time I put the cans on, they started putting me to sleep. Not exaggerating. 

 
i know what you mean. i have fallen asleep with mine on countless times, even when listening to aggressive stuff like Opeth. i don't consider this a negative though. i love the smooth, mellow, sound. to me, this is how music is supposed to sound. i think they sound very natural and "live". Paired with a good recording i'm in audio heaven.
 

 

[ajreynol]

yea, it's not a knock at all.  it's just how they are.  those who love them love that feel.  To this day, I've yet to hear a pair of cans that reproduce love drums the way the HD650's do.  I just prefer to be put in a different mood when I listen to my music.
 
Party on.