FIRST IMPRESSIONS: Nuforce uDAC USB DAC AMP with line out and S/PDIF out
Jul 17, 2010 at 11:58 PM Post #1,756 of 1,841


Quote:
Question for you Addict, I'm pretty much a noob to this whole headphone thing. My first foray into getting more serious about using head phones was buying some Grado SR60's  back in January. My source (desktop PC) headphone out pretty much just didnt cut it. So after first starting out thinking I wanted an amp, I discovered that what I probably really needed was a DAC. So after reading this thread back in March I added the uDAC. Now I'm thinking I want an amp too even  though  Grado's supposedly dont need amping, at least the 60's.
 
Anyway to the question. Can you tell me what sort of subtleties pairing say the ef2 to the uDAC will do to my 60's. I also want to upgrade to the 225's at some point but the timing of that really depends on if you think adding a hybrid tube amp like the ef2 will add any flavor to my musical stew as it is now


I have not spent a large amount of time with comparing the uDAC headphone out to the EF2 headphone out, but last time I did the EF2 had a little more detail soundstage and control, and a good bit more power.  The EF2 also has a little more treble extension as well.  
 
The uDAC as a DAC is a bit more detailed and spacious than the DAC built into the EF2, so I found the uDAC was a nice upgrade as source when listening to the EF2.
 
Jul 22, 2010 at 6:22 PM Post #1,758 of 1,841
Anyone manage to install USB ASIO driver for udac under Vista or 7?
the installer keep failing and give me a timeout error 0x0005.
 
It seems like the installer cannot load its ASIO driver because Windows has already asigned a driver for udac when it was first plugged into the computer.
 
I read some where that you could prevent windows from doing this by entering services.msc
and disable UPnP and SSDP Discovery but it did not work.
 
also, Windows does not allow me to update the driver manually from device manager..and people from Ploytec is second to useless..by telling me Vista is not supported while my friend on 7 also gets the same problem.
 
Jul 28, 2010 at 12:19 PM Post #1,759 of 1,841
Hello,
I'm experiencing problems when using udac with amp.
When volume knob of dac is turned more than 75% (amp volume is set normal so its not loud on phones) it distorts bass.
I have tried different amps and headphones and it always the same especial noticeable when bass is fading out.
It is ok when volume knob of udac is below 75%
Can some udac user check if it happens on his dac ?
 
Jul 28, 2010 at 1:33 PM Post #1,760 of 1,841
 A first venture into Head-Fi
 
Hi all, this is my follow-up to the post I added to this thread advising I had placed an order for the NuForce uDac. The order was placed via the NuForce Icon Europe e-store (http://www.nuforce-icon.eu/) on 14/07/10 and it arrived on 23/07/10 (interestingly, most of that time wasn't shipping; it took a few days before the order went beyond "payment processed").
 
Preamble
I thought I would post my first impressions of the uDac as a beginner to Head-Fi, along with an insight into my journey that led me to the world of Head-Fi. Since I imagine this product will be a potential starting place for many new to the hobby, I figured the impressions of a beginner could be useful.
 
Background (feel free to skip but might give some context to my impressions)
My experience with headphones and related equipment is relatively limited. My first introduction to reasonable headphones were some £30 Sony in-ear - I can't remember the model. I was quite pleased with their sound, especially the bass. My source has always been MP3 players (ipod mainly), playing variable quality MP3s. Sometime later I treated myself to the Audio-technica ATH-OR7 (a portable closed back headphone, apparently uncommon outside Japan) as an upgrade. Sound quality was definitely better but they were quite flat and un-engaging. I then discovered IEMs, thanks to the Head-Fi forum, and invested in some Westone UM1. Again an improvement in sound quality and their reproduction of music struck me as very neutral. That brings us up to the Sennheiser HD-25 II, which I purchased a few months ago. By far the favourite of my purchases to date. A very enjoyable sound which is detailed, with good bass response.
 
I've always had at least a passing interest in Hi-Fi, having a desire to acquire and enjoy a set-up which will render music well. Sometime after purchasing the HD 25-1 II, I landed back on the Head-Fi forum after seeing a picture of someone's Grados, headphone amp and dac - all that nice looking kit seemed rather interesting. This led to a fervour of research which introduced to me the merits of lossless, foobar, WASAPI, amps, DACs etc.
 
The aim now is to purchase as good a headphone set-up as I can afford (the Meier-Audio Corda Stagedac, Concerto and Beyerdynamic T1 are looking like the strongest candidates at the moment). I stumbled across HeadphoneAddict's excellent review of the uDac while doing general research and became intrigued. Here was an opportunity to hopefully sample some of the sound characteristics everyone on this forum raves about for minimal outlay (in Hi-Fi terms anyway). I also felt it wouldn't be sidelined by the main set-up when I purchased it, as due to the uDac's diminutive size, it will make a great accompaniment to my laptop and provide me with a more portable high-quality listening post.
 
My music tastes are quite varied but with focus on progressive rock, folk, blues, electronic and jazz.
 
Set-up
Secure ripped CDs > ALAC > Windows 7 > foobar2000 > WASAPI > NuForce uDac > Sennheiser HD 25-1 II
 
Initial Impressions
I plugged in the uDac, checked all software volumes were at 100% and that the bit and sample rates were correct (16-bit, 44.1Khz) and went straight to the music. I'll only comment on the differences I noticed and won't talk about relative terms such as warmth, etc., which I'm not comfortable with, as I don't feel I have enough experience to comment.
 
I was relieved to be immediately struck by a difference over the output of the on-board sound chip from my PC. This was the test for me; do I invest lots of money in Head-Fi? Will I be able to detect the subtle nuances everyone is making reference to? If the uDac didn't give me that, this would be a dead-end for me.
 
So, what were the improvements (in ascending order of "apparentness")
 
1. Detail
2. Separation
3. Realism
4. Environment
5. Sound stage

On Under My Thumb, The Rolling Stones, I always enjoyed the catchy wood percussion which follows the song. I wasn't until I heard this recording through the uDac that I could clearly identify this instrument. It sounds very natural and detailed, you can hear the wooden blocks being struck. Nor did I know there was clapping or finger clicking accompanying the recording.
 
It's a pleasure to discover the reverberation of the double bass strings in Perfect, Fairground Attraction. There's a real sense of rhythm and pace now and it's got me tapping my feet. The more detailed, accurate rendering of the separate instruments make listening to this track far more engaging and enjoyable. It's closer to a live listening experience.

The End by the Doors now has a much airer feel to it. I can hear the percussion on the left and the guitars on the right, giving a sense of where the performers are located. The rending of symbols is what's always irked me most about lossy formats and inferior equipment, so I'm pleased to report they sound more realistic now, with a much longer decay/lingering.
 
The uDac really brings life and realism to the older recording from the 70's; Joni Mitchell's Carey sounds wonderful for example. The acoustic guitar is much better defined and you can really hear her strumming and the strings reverberating. The backing vocals are clearer, as is the hand percussion.
 
Having the uDac in the equation is less obvious with some recordings though. Some of Led Zeppelin's heavier numbers still have a slightly dense, "muddy" feeling. Other tracks which have always had a "closed" sound haven't improved much either, i.e. The Memory of Trees by Enya. The uDac certainly doesn't detract from the sound I was already familiar with from my PC on-board sound in these instances though, and there is still greater detail retrieval in these recording. It's possible the Sennheisers could be part of the issue here, or this is just a characteristic of the recordings. The uDac only has ~10 hours on it as I write this, so perhaps things will improve here (and generally) with time.

Other thoughts
I'm pleased I purchased the uDac, it has provided a discernible improvement to my headphone listening experience - making it more engaging and enjoyable, and has provided me with further proof that it is worth investing money to achieve a better sound. I consider it to be good value too.

I am (probably clearly!) a beginner to listening and to putting my subsequent observations to paper. I'm aware there is an official lexicon for audio terms, which I'll confess I haven't referred to - I've just chosen the adjectives which I feel fit my observations best. There seems to be plenty of better informed posts on this thread, so it's well worth reading through from the beginning.
 
Thanks to HeadphoneAddict for his great review and to all the posters who provided useful contributions to the thread.
 
A couple of photos of the uDac in situ:

 

  

 
Jul 28, 2010 at 1:47 PM Post #1,761 of 1,841


Quote:
Hello,
I'm experiencing problems when using udac with amp.
When volume knob of dac is turned more than 75% (amp volume is set normal so its not loud on phones) it distorts bass.
I have tried different amps and headphones and it always the same especial noticeable when bass is fading out.
It is ok when volume knob of udac is below 75%
Can some udac user check if it happens on his dac ?


Some amps can have their inputs overdriven by a too powerful input signal.  My EF5 amp can distort if I feed a signal into it that is too strong from the uDAC, but that same uDAC at 75% sounds fine with the EF5.  If I plug that same uDAC into another amp, I can turn the uDAC to max volume.
 
I would just set the uDAC to 75% or less and control the volume with the amp, or use the uDAC to control the amp volume and leave the volume knob on the amp closer to max.  Beware, some amps become noisier as you turn the volume knob higher.
 
Jul 28, 2010 at 3:42 PM Post #1,762 of 1,841


Quote:
 A first venture into Head-Fi
 
Hi all... snip...
 
I'm pleased I purchased the uDac, it has provided a discernible improvement to my headphone listening experience - making it more engaging and enjoyable, and has provided me with further proof that it is worth investing money to achieve a better sound. I consider it to be good value too.

I am (probably clearly!) a beginner to listening and to putting my subsequent observations to paper. I'm aware there is an official lexicon for audio terms, which I'll confess I haven't referred to - I've just chosen the adjectives which I feel fit my observations best. There seems to be plenty of better informed posts on this thread, so it's well worth reading through from the beginning.
 
Thanks to HeadphoneAddict for his great review and to all the posters who provided useful contributions to the thread.
 
A couple of photos of the uDac in situ:
 
 

  
 


I like that photo, and your impressions were very good.  Just wait until you try some better headphones.  The LCD-2 sound great out of the uDAC.  
 
As the saying goes on head-fi - "Welcome to head-fi, and sorry about your wallet."  
blink.gif

 
 
Jul 28, 2010 at 4:36 PM Post #1,764 of 1,841


Quote:
Some amps can have their inputs overdriven by a too powerful input signal.  My EF5 amp can distort if I feed a signal into it that is too strong from the uDAC, but that same uDAC at 75% sounds fine with the EF5.  If I plug that same uDAC into another amp, I can turn the uDAC to max volume.
 
I would just set the uDAC to 75% or less and control the volume with the amp, or use the uDAC to control the amp volume and leave the volume knob on the amp closer to max.  Beware, some amps become noisier as you turn the volume knob higher.

 
Thx for replay.
I'm aware of that, but i tested udac on 2 different amps (one dedicated headphone amp other was onkyo integra) and the result was exactly the same.
Same spot on volume knob and same distortions.
That’s why i assume it was dac fault.
Maybe I'm wrong if so please correct my thinking.
 
Jul 28, 2010 at 5:01 PM Post #1,765 of 1,841


Quote:
 A first venture into Head-Fi
 
-snip-
 
The aim now is to purchase as good a headphone set-up as I can afford (the Meier-Audio Corda Stagedac, Concerto and Beyerdynamic T1 are looking like the strongest candidates at the moment). I stumbled across HeadphoneAddict's excellent review of the uDac while doing general research and became intrigued. Here was an opportunity to hopefully sample some of the sound characteristics everyone on this forum raves about for minimal outlay (in Hi-Fi terms anyway). I also felt it wouldn't be sidelined by the main set-up when I purchased it, as due to the uDac's diminutive size, it will make a great accompaniment to my laptop and provide me with a more portable high-quality listening post.
 
-snip-
 
Having the uDac in the equation is less obvious with some recordings though. Some of Led Zeppelin's heavier numbers still have a slightly dense, "muddy" feeling. Other tracks which have always had a "closed" sound haven't improved much either, i.e. The Memory of Trees by Enya. The uDac certainly doesn't detract from the sound I was already familiar with from my PC on-board sound in these instances though, and there is still greater detail retrieval in these recording. It's possible the Sennheisers could be part of the issue here, or this is just a characteristic of the recordings. The uDac only has ~10 hours on it as I write this, so perhaps things will improve here (and generally) with time.


Nice writeup, jr41 and welcome to the "dark side of diminishing returns"
wink.gif

 
My feeling is that it is indeed "just a characteristic of the recordings", this is a big issue in general IMO. Be sure and let us know how things improve with your Meier-Audio Corda Stagedac, Concerto and Beyerdynamic T1 setup, and "sorry about your wallet"!
 
Jul 28, 2010 at 5:05 PM Post #1,766 of 1,841
 
Quote:
Thx for replay.
I'm aware of that, but i tested udac on 2 different amps (one dedicated headphone amp other was onkyo integra) and the result was exactly the same.
Same spot on volume knob and same distortions.
That’s why i assume it was dac fault.
Maybe I'm wrong if so please correct my thinking.


Keep the volume on the uDac to 50-60% then, problem solved. This is my only issue with the uDac really, that you can't defeat the volume pot when using it in line-out mode like you can in s/pdif mode. It may not be a bad thing though, as some amps need more juice on the input end than others. But I do prefer a fixed, optimum, output level.
 
Jul 29, 2010 at 9:35 AM Post #1,767 of 1,841


Quote:
 

Keep the volume on the uDac to 50-60% then, problem solved. This is my only issue with the uDac really, that you can't defeat the volume pot when using it in line-out mode like you can in s/pdif mode. It may not be a bad thing though, as some amps need more juice on the input end than others. But I do prefer a fixed, optimum, output level.


So it is the same for you ? that is enough for me, just wanted to know if it wasn't fault of my dac.
Thx for replay
 
Jul 29, 2010 at 5:05 PM Post #1,768 of 1,841


Quote:
So it is the same for you ? that is enough for me, just wanted to know if it wasn't fault of my dac.
Thx for replay


Yes it's the same for lots of us, even Headphone Addict has mentioned this regarding the uDac and recommends a one o'clock setting IIRC. I dislike having more than one physical attenuators in the signal chain for that reason, but it does give the uDac some added versatility.
 

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