[Poimandres]

While I have plenty to say on the subject, I think it's fairly off topic and best discussed elsewhere.  Criticism of that company will ruffle a lot of feathers around here and can quickly spiral a friendly discussion out of control.

Missed reading the post before it was edited. I'm assuming you are not referring to Gustard.

 

[AudioBear]

+1
 
Please PM us the company since we weren't quick enough to read your now deleted post

 

[aamefford]

"these are not the droids we are looking for...."

 

[Joeybgood]

I can vouch for the X12. Found it a great blend between the musical AKM and analytic Sabres sonic wise.
Best of both with hardly any digitis to speak of (comparable to Gung)

It's currently an active drop on Mass drop.

 

[mandrake50]

  What about the NAD D 1050?

No comments on this one? It checks most of the boxes and NAD has traditionally made some nice gear at their price point. The couple of reviews I read are favorable as well.
I haven't read all of the thread yet, but it sure seems we lost the $600 price point mentioned early on.

 

[aamefford]

Some of us, and by some of us I mean me, have not lost track of the $600 or less price point.

The $600 is new or used, at least for me. I might stretch for a good deal on a Gugnir or similar. Of course, a GOOD deal on a Gugnir with USB GEN 2 should be about $550 to $600 max.

 

[runeight]

Hello gents. Nice to see another thread.
 
I've noticed some posts about connectors/cables from sources with RSA outputs or TRRS outputs. There is something you all need to know and there is a fix for it.
 
Without laboring over what you already know about balanced signals, in a perfect balanced world only the two signal lines have any relevance to the transmission of the signal from one device to another. Leaving aside noise pickup, if the two devices were absolutely perfectly floating all you need is four wires from one to the other. The additional connection on conventional XLR wiring is used for shielding and one other thing.
 
Thus, it appears at first glance that the RSA/TRRS adaptor to 2 XLR connectors which has only four wires is all you need. But, unhappily, this isn't always true.
 
This is because, whether we like it or not, many balanced devices to have some kind of ground reference. Often this is for safety reasons. Sometimes, just convenience to establish a ground to something that is metal.
 
Once the balanced circuit is given a reference to a "ground" (like the AC line ground) then things can happen. To way over simplify, when one or both of the devices has ground reference, the two boxes will try to establish a ground reference between them. In a normal XLR connection where pin 1 (by convention) carries the ground, the two metal grounds are connected. If the ground wires are absent the only way the boxes can establish a ground reference is through the signal lines and in doing so inject noise into the actual signal. People who have tried to use only the four wire TRRS cable as a balanced connection between two devices have discovered this. I believe, for example, that A&K has.
 
So, if you have a source with an RSA or TRRS balanced output you can't simply use four wires. There is a solution, however, which is a little kludgy, but not too bad.
 
The fix is this. On the XLR connector side of the cable you add additional wires to both pins 1. On the source side, you don't have the extra ground pins so you create one by providing an extra plug which is solely for the purpose of making a ground connection. For example, along with the RSA connector the cable would have a 3.5mm plug which only has its ground wired (not the T or the R). If there is a spare 3.5mm connector on the source you plug this in and it connects the ground of the two boxes. Or, if the source has a spare RCA jack, you wire the XLR ground wires to an RCA plug where only the shield is wired and the pin is left unconnected.
 
Unfortunately things will be this way until we establish a convention for the small balanced connectors that do all the right things.
 
So, in anticipation of some of you needing to fix this problem, we have spoken with Alex Sventitsky of WyWires who is very happy to provide the specialized cable(s) for this. Alex says feel free to contact him through the WyWires website and work out what you need to connect on the source side of the equation (3.5mm, RCA, or whatever) as the grounding plug. The Carbon side will always be 2 standard XLR connectors.

 

[pippen99]

The $600 is new or used, at least for me. I might stretch for a good deal on a Gugnir or similar. Of course, a GOOD deal on a Gugnir with USB GEN 2 should be about $550 to $600 max.

Agreed.  Pretty much my plan.

 

[gr8soundz]

  Hello gents. Nice to see another thread.
 
I've noticed some posts about connectors/cables from sources with RSA outputs or TRRS outputs. There is something you all need to know and there is a fix for it.
 
Without laboring over what you already know about balanced signals, in a perfect balanced world only the two signal lines have any relevance to the transmission of the signal from one device to another. Leaving aside noise pickup, if the two devices were absolutely perfectly floating all you need is four wires from one to the other. The additional connection on conventional XLR wiring is used for shielding and one other thing.
 
Thus, it appears at first glance that the RSA/TRRS adaptor to 2 XLR connectors which has only four wires is all you need. But, unhappily, this isn't always true.
 
This is because, whether we like it or not, many balanced devices to have some kind of ground reference. Often this is for safety reasons. Sometimes, just convenience to establish a ground to something that is metal.
 
Once the balanced circuit is given a reference to a "ground" (like the AC line ground) then things can happen. To way over simplify, when one or both of the devices has ground reference, the two boxes will try to establish a ground reference between them. In a normal XLR connection where pin 1 (by convention) carries the ground, the two metal grounds are connected. If the ground wires are absent the only way the boxes can establish a ground reference is through the signal lines and in doing so inject noise into the actual signal. People who have tried to use only the four wire TRRS cable as a balanced connection between two devices have discovered this. I believe, for example, that A&K has.
 
So, if you have a source with an RSA or TRRS balanced output you can't simply use four wires. There is a solution, however, which is a little kludgy, but not too bad.
 
The fix is this. On the XLR connector side of the cable you add additional wires to both pins 1. On the source side, you don't have the extra ground pins so you create one by providing an extra plug which is solely for the purpose of making a ground connection. For example, along with the RSA connector the cable would have a 3.5mm plug which only has its ground wired (not the T or the R). If there is a spare 3.5mm connector on the source you plug this in and it connects the ground of the two boxes. Or, if the source has a spare RCA jack, you wire the XLR ground wires to an RCA plug where only the shield is wired and the pin is left unconnected.
 
Unfortunately things will be this way until we establish a convention for the small balanced connectors that do all the right things.
 
So, in anticipation of some of you needing to fix this problem, we have spoken with Alex Sventitsky of WyWires who is very happy to provide the specialized cable(s) for this. Alex says feel free to contact him through the WyWires website and work out what you need to connect on the source side of the equation (3.5mm, RCA, or whatever) as the grounding plug. The Carbon side will always be 2 standard XLR connectors.

 
As always Doc, thanks for the detailed heads up.
 
I took your earlier advice to forgo my plan for rca to xlr for the same reasons you mentioned above. However, I recently got a Pono player and, to my surprise, the manual specifically states that 3.5mm to XLR type cables should be used when connecting it in balanced mode to an amp.
 
The good news is the Pono's dual 3-pin TRS jacks match 3 for 3 with standard XLR pins. I also confirmed with both manufacturers (Pono and cable maker) that both their diagrams of  tip/ring/sleeve to the hot/cold/ground (or +/-/ground) on the other end match exactly.
 
Not as ideal as a proper balanced dac (which I'll add in the near future) but at least it shouldn't cause any grounding problems.

 

[doctorjazz]

Cool, use a Pono, well need cables when the LC arrives.

 

[immtbiker]

... To way over simplify, when one or both of the devices has ground reference, the two boxes will try to establish a ground reference between them...

 
The path of least resistance.

 

[sfoclt]

My master plan all along was to use the LC in my office with the Pono.

 

[doctorjazz]

My master plan is to take over the world, HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

But the Pono will have to do for now....

 

[Poimandres]

Doctor Cavalli,
I was wondering if you felt the kobiconn setup needed a ground on portable battery powered devices such as the clas db when connected through a balanced cable to a portable battery powered amp?

 

[mandrake50]

Doctor Cavalli,
I was wondering if you felt the kobiconn setup needed a ground on portable battery powered devices such as the clas db when connected through a balanced cable to a portable battery powered amp?

I am truly asking this out of ignorance... why the fixation with kobicon? It looks to me like kobicon produces connectors of many types. Which specific ones are you asking about. Just trying to learn.