[Ling Vu]

That's the priority? Seriously are you guys that out of touch? :confused_face_2:

X7 was not my priority until 2 hours ago

 

[JamesFiiO]

  That's the priority? Seriously are you guys that out of touch? 

 
sorry they just do their job. and I have nothing to say but prefer more on how can we bring a stable firmware to you guys asap.  and the fact is that we really do our job to fix the bugs and add some features that we have promised. 

 

[CH23]

FiiO beta testers, you that know more than most of people here (like me), please drop a few words of encouragement...

You guys know I'm the unrealistic optimist, even so my faith shakes when I realize latest beta firmware is unable to play songs properly from 0:00 second... I believe a lot of beautiful things are being done, please don't loose focus on what's essential.

December is almost here and I find my "lack of faith disturbing" (Darth Vader)

there is no excuse for FiiO not to talk about the issue happening on fw 2.0. a hotfix should have been released, or at least some form of communication.(as they are still communicating things)(also just saw James' message.)
I've had the X7 since fw 1.8, and it never worked as advertised. there's lag when you use it as DAC, there's lag if you use bluetooth(even if it's a remote, which they sell), they're working on fw3, but as long as this is beta, they should make sure a working version of their latest "stable" firmware is available. users should not have to disable build in software for the device to "work".

It's a shame, fw 3.0b8(BETA!) works for the most, but again, this is beta firmware, not release candidate, not stable. (I have issues with charging, but still need to confirm if it is not my charger giving the ghost)

A lot of users wanted features to work and were angry about those not working, but basic things like replaygain, library sorting, character support, scanning songs, gapless playback, and now playstore fail to work as they should.
 
 
I have hopes for fw3 stable, but it's slowly running out.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

So I had an informal chat with current FiiO staff. I'll separate this post into a section on what I gather to be facts about the situation and a section of my opinion on resolving the issue.

Probable Facts:
-FW2.0 has bitten the dust for good and won't be making a comback. The reasons for this are complex but suffice it to say that both the FW2.0 source code and the means to correct it are now probably out of FiiO's hands. The merits of the decisions they made that led to this situation could be a topic for an interesting discussion, if only the facts of those decisions themselves could be put to light. But it is not my place to do so.

-The solution to the current dilemma will probably come in the form of a stable FW3.x, when it comes. FiiO has taken greater direct control over the firmware development process this year and this could yield long term benefits in terms of firmware features and stability. The cost of course is the stagnant firmware period earlier this year, the tumultuous current period and the above-mentioned fact of not being able to patch FW2.0.

-The best thing you can do for your X7 right now is to update to FW3.x beta. You have nothing to lose; FW2.0 is lost. Upgrading to FW3.x requires a clean wipe of your X7 but this will probably be a one-time issue because as mentioned above there probably won't be an update of 2.0 for you to flash back to in the future. I've also been told that there probably won't ever be an OTA update from FW2.0 to 3.x even when a stable version comes out, because of the great discrepancy between the systems (and maybe because of the aforementioned limited access to 2.0 code). So it makes little sense to wait--you would have to do the clean flash even for the eventual stable release, and in the meantime you would be holding a paperweight.

Now for the section on my opinion:
-FW3.x is still quite a work in progress, but you may note that most if not almost all of the issues relate to the FiiO Music app rather than the operating system.

-Hence most if not almost all issues can be avoided for now by using a 3rd party music app. However 3rd party apps won't have bitperfect access to the DAC in the case of sample rates other than 48kHz.

-To test the amount of audible effect this has on music listening, you are invited to download and listen to the following two audio files:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bcnpd3vezvgpzrl/44s%20perceptual%20sweep%20linear%202015.flac?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z51lvx376ft7t28/48s%20perceptual%20sweep%20linear%202015.flac?dl=0

These are two audio files encoding the same sine sweep in 44.1kHz and 48kHz respectively. Listen for possible corruption to the pure escalating tone, in the form of spurious over / undertones that do not follow the sweep. In my opinion these test signals will reveal possible resampling artifacts better than any music signal can (because there is no sound at any other frequencies to mask spurious frequencies caused by resampling)

The reference music player here of course is FiiO Music--you should not hear any difference between these two files using this. Now try them on your choice of 3rd party player--do you hear any difference between the files in this case? (As far as I know the 48kHz file will be played natively by the Android system on FW3.x while 44kHz will be resampled)

My hunch is that the difference will be small enough that you would benefit from using a smoothly working 3rd party music player (of which any can be bought on the working Google Play on FW3.x) much more than your ears would suffer. And you would still be benefiting from the premium audio hardware on the X7--a bit of resampling does not suddenly turn your premium player into an AM radio.



Here it would be worth noting that to update to the latest FW3.x from FW2.0, you have to clean flash FW3.0 per the instructions here
http://www.head-fi.org/t/822149/the-public-beta-firmware-of-android-5-1-for-fiio-x7-fw3-0beta-is-coming

After that the later 3.x firmwares should be pushed to you via OTA update. Or you can download FW3.08 here:
http://pan.baidu.com/s/1mitvZxI (latest version and not pushed via OTA as of this writing. This can be flashed from FW3.00 via a normal update instead of a clean flash)

(If anyone has their own tips on updating to FW3.x you're welcome to share them here )

 

[bavinck]

sorry they just do their job. and I have nothing to say but prefer more on how can we bring a stable firmware to you guys asap.  and the fact is that we really do our job to fix the bugs and add some features that we have promised. 

How about saying that you are actively working on a fix for the google play services issue in fw2. If you are not working on a hotfix, you absolutely should be. The x7 is nearly unusable now with the recent google play services update.

 

[CH23]

So I had an informal chat with current FiiO staff. I'll separate this post into a section on what I gather to be facts about the situation and a section of my opinion on resolving the issue.

Probable Facts:
-FW2.0 has bitten the dust for good and won't be making a comback. The reasons for this are complex but suffice it to say that both the FW2.0 source code and the means to correct it are now probably out of FiiO's hands. The merits of the decisions they made that led to this situation could be a topic for an interesting discussion, if only the facts of those decisions themselves could be put to light. But it is not my place to do so.

-The solution to the current dilemma will probably come in the form of a stable FW3.x, when it comes. FiiO has taken greater direct control over the firmware development process this year and this could yield long term benefits in terms of firmware features and stability. The cost of course is the stagnant firmware period earlier this year, the tumultuous current period and the above-mentioned fact of not being able to patch FW2.0.

-The best thing you can do for your X7 right now is to update to FW3.x beta. You have nothing to lose; FW2.0 is lost. Upgrading to FW3.x requires a clean wipe of your X7 but this will probably be a one-time issue because as mentioned above there probably won't be an update of it for you to flash back to in the future. I've also been told that there probably won't ever be an OTA update from FW2.0 to 3.x even when a stable version comes out, because of the great discrepancy between the systems (and maybe because of the aforementioned limited access to 2.0 code). So it makes little sense to wait--you would have to do the clean flash even for the eventual stable release, and in the meantime you would be holding a paperweight.

Now for the section on my opinion:
-FW3.x is still quite a work in progress, but you may note that most if not almost all of the issues relate to the FiiO Music app rather than the operating system.

-Hence most if not almost all issues can be avoided for now by using a 3rd party music app. However 3rd party apps won't have bitperfect access to the DAC in the case of sample rates other than 48kHz.

-To test the amount of audible effect this has on music listening, you are invited to download and listen to the following two audio files:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bcnpd3vezvgpzrl/44s%20perceptual%20sweep%20linear%202015.flac?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z51lvx376ft7t28/48s%20perceptual%20sweep%20linear%202015.flac?dl=0

These are two audio files encoding the same sine sweep in 44.1kHz and 48kHz respectively. Listen for possible corruption to the pure escalating tone, in the form of spurious over / undertones that do not follow the sweep. In my opinion these test signals will reveal possible resampling artifacts better than any music signal can (because there is no sound at any other frequencies to mask spurious frequencies caused by resampling)

The reference music player here of course is FiiO Music--you should not hear any difference between these two files using this. Now try them on your choice of 3rd party player--do you hear any difference between the files in this case? (As far as I know the 48kHz file will be played natively by the Android system on FW3.x while 44kHz will be resampled)

My hunch is that the difference will be small enough that you would benefit from using a smoothly working 3rd party music player (of which any can be bought on the working Google Play on FW3.x) much more than your ears would suffer. And you would still be benefiting from the premium audio hardware on the X7--a bit of resampling does not suddenly turn your premium player into an AM radio.

Here it would be worth noting that to update to the latest FW3.x from FW2.0, you have to clean flash FW3.0 per the instructions here
http://www.head-fi.org/t/822149/the-public-beta-firmware-of-android-5-1-for-fiio-x7-fw3-0beta-is-coming

After that the later 3.x firmwares should be pushed to you via OTA update. Or you can download FW3.08 here:
http://pan.baidu.com/s/1mitvZxI (latest version and not pushed via OTA as of this writing. This can be flashed from FW3.00 via a normal update instead of a clean flash)

(If anyone has their own tips on updating to FW3.x you're welcome to share them here

)

 
It's a shame that you have to be the one bringing us this information, but i'm glad there's information at last. when are they going to re-hire you?

 

[bavinck]

So I had an informal chat with current FiiO staff. I'll separate this post into a section on what I gather to be facts about the situation and a section of my opinion on resolving the issue.

Probable Facts:
-FW2.0 has bitten the dust for good and won't be making a comback. The reasons for this are complex but suffice it to say that both the FW2.0 source code and the means to correct it are now probably out of FiiO's hands. The merits of the decisions they made that led to this situation could be a topic for an interesting discussion, if only the facts of those decisions themselves could be put to light. But it is not my place to do so.

-The solution to the current dilemma will probably come in the form of a stable FW3.x, when it comes. FiiO has taken greater direct control over the firmware development process this year and this could yield long term benefits in terms of firmware features and stability. The cost of course is the stagnant firmware period earlier this year, the tumultuous current period and the above-mentioned fact of not being able to patch FW2.0.

-The best thing you can do for your X7 right now is to update to FW3.x beta. You have nothing to lose; FW2.0 is lost. Upgrading to FW3.x requires a clean wipe of your X7 but this will probably be a one-time issue because as mentioned above there probably won't be an update of it for you to flash back to in the future. I've also been told that there probably won't ever be an OTA update from FW2.0 to 3.x even when a stable version comes out, because of the great discrepancy between the systems (and maybe because of the aforementioned limited access to 2.0 code). So it makes little sense to wait--you would have to do the clean flash even for the eventual stable release, and in the meantime you would be holding a paperweight.

Now for the section on my opinion:
-FW3.x is still quite a work in progress, but you may note that most if not almost all of the issues relate to the FiiO Music app rather than the operating system.

-Hence most if not almost all issues can be avoided for now by using a 3rd party music app. However 3rd party apps won't have bitperfect access to the DAC in the case of sample rates other than 48kHz.

-To test the amount of audible effect this has on music listening, you are invited to download and listen to the following two audio files:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bcnpd3vezvgpzrl/44s%20perceptual%20sweep%20linear%202015.flac?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z51lvx376ft7t28/48s%20perceptual%20sweep%20linear%202015.flac?dl=0

These are two audio files encoding the same sine sweep in 44.1kHz and 48kHz respectively. Listen for possible corruption to the pure escalating tone, in the form of spurious over / undertones that do not follow the sweep. In my opinion these test signals will reveal possible resampling artifacts better than any music signal can (because there is no sound at any other frequencies to mask spurious frequencies caused by resampling)

The reference music player here of course is FiiO Music--you should not hear any difference between these two files using this. Now try them on your choice of 3rd party player--do you hear any difference between the files in this case? (As far as I know the 48kHz file will be played natively by the Android system on FW3.x while 44kHz will be resampled)

My hunch is that the difference will be small enough that you would benefit from using a smoothly working 3rd party music player (of which any can be bought on the working Google Play on FW3.x) much more than your ears would suffer. And you would still be benefiting from the premium audio hardware on the X7--a bit of resampling does not suddenly turn your premium player into an AM radio.

Here it would be worth noting that to update to the latest FW3.x from FW2.0, you have to clean flash FW3.0 per the instructions here
http://www.head-fi.org/t/822149/the-public-beta-firmware-of-android-5-1-for-fiio-x7-fw3-0beta-is-coming

After that the later 3.x firmwares should be pushed to you via OTA update. Or you can download FW3.08 here:
http://pan.baidu.com/s/1mitvZxI (latest version and not pushed via OTA as of this writing. This can be flashed from FW3.00 via a normal update instead of a clean flash)

(If anyone has their own tips on updating to FW3.x you're welcome to share them here

)

This is very disappointing. I absolutely cannot believe Fiio has gone in this direction. The most worrisome aspect is the perceived change in brightness of the new firmware. I already find the X7 a bit bass-light, and I don't want to move to fw3 if there is any chance it might get more so. This is a very expensive DAP and Fiio has really schiit the bed on this one.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

This is very disappointing. I absolutely cannot believe Fiio has gone in this direction. The most worrisome aspect is the perceived change in brightness of the new firmware. I already find the X7 a bit bass-light, and I don't want to move to fw3 if there is any chance it might get more so. This is a very expensive DAP and Fiio has really schiit the bed on this one.

I have not heard of any official info pointing to a brighter sound signature in FW3.x. My hunch is they do not actually sound any different in terms of brightness.

... much was made of the audio quality improvements 3.x would bring but at no point was this advertised in terms of a sound signature change.

 

[OSiRiSsk]

Can somebody confirm that in latest beta firmware the USB dac works smooth on Mac OS X ? Cause in 3.0.0 this was advertised as known issue, so I wonder whether it has been resolved.
 
If this works - where can I find the official instructions for upgrade from FW 2.0 to latest beta?
 
Thanks!

 

[JHutchins]

sorry they just do their job. and I have nothing to say but prefer more on how can we bring a stable firmware to you guys asap.  and the fact is that we really do our job to fix the bugs and add some features that we have promised. 

Perhaps you would be good enough to at least acknowledge the problems we are reporting, for example: the illegible search box, DSD down-sampled, Amazon Music not streaming etc, not to mention the unplayable WMA track I sent to you and which you also found would not play, although they play perfectly in FW 2.0 and on the X5. Are you able to replicate the reported problems, if so when is a fix being addressed? A number of members have reported poorer SQ when running 3.0.8, and the only response is that there cannot be a change because SQ is hardware related. Is this really true if there are clearly firmware down-sampling issues reported.
For me, as a customer for several years, it seems that the FiiO focus has moved to "box shifting" at the expense of responsive software/firmware development. Lack of information from FiiO raises suspicions in customers minds, for example is the effort currently focused on developing X7mk2 running Android 6 or 7 at the expense of the current model which is struggling to have a stable Android 5 FW?

 

[rusnak666]

There is definitely difference between the fw2 and fw3beta in bass region, im comaring it right now with friends fiio x7, his unit have fw3.08 and mine is fw2, my fw2 have definitely more sub bass, if fiio wil not fix fw2 with google pop ups i will wait for fw3 only if they do make working the viper4android on fw3 or they make some software bass boost function in player... anyway i hope they will fix fw2...

 

[Fred-svv]

There is definitely difference between the fw2 and fw3beta in bass region, im comaring it right now with friends fiio x7, his unit have fw3.08 and mine is fw2, my fw2 have definitely more sub bass, if fiio wil not fix fw2 with google pop ups i will wait for fw3 only if they do make working the viper4android on fw3 or they make some software bass boost function in player... anyway i hope they will fix fw2...

Do you fell anothers changes in sound? Like more transparency, more details or more Soundstage? For me the sound has improve.

 

[rusnak666]

Do you fell anothers changes in sound? Like more transparency, more details or more Soundstage? For me the sound has improve.

Yes, the details and soundstage has improved, but only verry little, on the other side the bass has changed very much, for my taste less to almost non exist sub-bass and as i can see im not the only one

 

[TJ Max]

Does any one use PlayerPro with fw 3.0? I was using it on 2.0. but now it won't detect any drive location other that the root "/"

 

[bavinck]

Yes, the details and soundstage has improved, but only verry little, on the other side the bass has changed very much, for my taste less to almost non exist sub-bass and as i can see im not the only one

Did you use eq during your comparision?