[Vartan]

Use TI PGA2311 for volume control.

 

[zinzoeker]

   
 
 
 
Problem is implementing additional featrures which may have little or no impact on SQ occupies board space. Which would make the DAP larger, more expensive and kind of redundant really.
 
In my opinion the USB DAC function should be the only advance feature a DAP needs which you can connect to a smartphone or PC for music streaming.
 
You always carry a smartphone anyway. Why would you need 2 devices that have redundant functions. Are we asking Fiio to make  a high-end DAP or just another android device?

+1
 
Listeners who want extra's, there a a lot of high end smarhphones which play good quality.
But I am a dinosaur. I want a high end DAP without al those extra's: Android has to be updated continious. Wifi, bluethooth needs protection (virusscanner, anti-spyware, ....)
In the end you'll have a high end smarthphone, which you can not use to call someone else.
 
Stick to the basics.
I have now my X1 and it is enought at this moment, but the luxe X1 should be nice.

 

[xylin6]

  If X7 turns out to be flat/netral (which in my opinion any source should be). Change your phone to something musical to get the SQ you want. A colored DAP will be picky and difficult to pair with a lot of headphones. I don't think Fiio will leave X7 without an EQ. Harware based tone-shaping control will make X7 complicated, more expensive and takes up valuable space for something else which is more important for a DAP. 

problem is many of my phones are already capable of producing plenty of low end,but i still want to know what they are capable of beyond a flat signal,because when attenuating or increasing specific frequencies across the band you'll often find many headphones have potential you weren't aware of  thus the giving you a more dynamic listening experience without the need to have a different headphone or iem for every genre
 
and as far as bass boost implementation being complicated,expensive or taking up valued space for something more important,i'm not certain i agree. sony have the clear bass function on all of their walkman players including the introductory e series which you can get for under $99 (16gb model) and which are far thinner and smaller than any fiio player. and again, if you want a clean signal,simply leave the enhancements off, and you have no issue whatsoever in pairing any specific headphones.
 
i'm honestly stunned by this notion over the last few years that using any sound enhancing function is bad or 'eq is the devil', especially as i grew up listening to my music on my parents hi fidelity separate components systems from the 70s where tuner's came with bass mid & treble toggles and  amplifiers either had equalizers built in, or if they didn't you added a separate equalizer to your system ,and never did anyone think 'but if you alter the parameter of any band within the frequency range you're polluting the purity of the signal!' 

 
i think this mindset has arisen specifically from the generation who grew up on DAPs and/or spend more time reading measurement charts and graphs and listening to their gear more than actually listening to the music that comes out of it.t i'll never understand wanting less options on any player so long as they remain optional  and the sound quality remains top notch. at the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference though.okay early morning rant over (and all this before my first coffee).

 

[headwhacker]

   
Yeah, I see what you mean, but isn't it better if they can make a AK240 equal at a price of 400-500$ ? Do you have any idea how much 700$ is? And after all import tax and shipping cost.
What is going to bee next when they make X9  and X11? pricing at 1200$ and 2200$ and compare to a Ayre dac/amp or Audio Note. Just because they are producing good stuff doesn't meant they have to put a high price on it. I see X7 as more like a replacement for thier X5 with betterspec/performace with same price, just like when you buy a Sony mobilephone Z2 last year at the price 800$, and you are buying Z3 this year, did you pay 1600$ just because Z3 are better than Z2. Or compare Z1 to Z2.
 
 
Fiio is sooner or later becoming just like mobile manufacture OnePlus One,Oppo, Huewei, Xiaomi. They beging with low price high-end phones with same spec as the top Samsung, Sony,HTC phones at a price of one-third as you say. After few years establishing thier companys poplularity, they will sure raise the price of thier product to 800-900$ for a phone. No doubt about that.
 
Don't forget all those chinese audio company are developing and manufacturing thier product in CHINA!!!!!!!!!!! With much lower salery for the employees.

 
People will buy what they can afford. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything at a certain price. Truth is, consumer will always want more for the lowest price and a manufacturer will want to sell a product for the highest price for the smallest cost. Rationalizing how a product is worth based on materials used and where it is made doesn't work.
 
There is a saying that "you always get what you paid for" But that is most of the time not true in Audio

 

[Dobrescu George]

   
Yeah, I see what you mean, but isn't it better if they can make a AK240 equal at a price of 400-500$ ? Do you have any idea how much 700$ is? And after all import tax and shipping cost.
What is going to bee next when they make X9  and X11? pricing at 1200$ and 2200$ and compare to a Ayre dac/amp or Audio Note. Just because they are producing good stuff doesn't meant they have to put a high price on it. I see X7 as more like a replacement for thier X5 with betterspec/performace with same price, just like when you buy a Sony mobilephone Z2 last year at the price 800$, and you are buying Z3 this year, did you pay 1600$ just because Z3 are better than Z2. Or compare Z1 to Z2.
 
 
Fiio is sooner or later becomng just like mobile manufacture OnePlus One,Oppo, Huewei, Xiaomi. They beging with low price high-end phones with same spec as the top Samsung, Sony,HTC phones at a price of one-third as you say. After few years establishing thier companys poplularity, they will sure raise the price of thier product to 800-900$ for a phone. No doubt about that.
 
Don't forget all those chinese audio company are developing and manufacturing thier product in CHINA!!!!!!!!!!! With much lower salery for the employees.

Don't do this. It is great for a company to make a nice product, but all companies need to start winning more money at some point. And i don't agree with what you are saying. I tried to pick a phone for myself, within any price range. I ended up planning to buy note4. Mainly because no other phone met all my needs [battery, big screen, quality screen, good enough processor for my browsing]. 
 
z3 is a very poor choice when it is the exact same thing as z2, only an updated version of android. In fact, z3 has the same specs, even less battery. I have no ideea who would buy something like that. I am serious, gsmarena says they are the same thing, and i don't have any ideea why it exists. it is one of the worst products to be released taking price/quality ratio into account.
 
another thought is that x7 is trying to be somethig else from x5. like x1 and x3 are different things. Think outside of the box, a good company producing an expensive product doesn't mean it is the end of the world. If fiio could make wooaudio wa234 mono, at a price point of say 2500-3000, insead of 21000 it would be something nice to be seen. now, you wouldn't pay 21000 for wa234 anyways, so why bother with the product that fiio would make at that price, if you catch my drift. If fiio competes with cowon p1 and ak240 and chord hugo, ask yourself if you would buy any of these and you will be able to answer yourself why you are not willing to pay 700$ for x7. I am from the crowd that would pay 2000$ for chord hugo, but as fiio is going to release their x7 at 700, i am waiting for their product, as it sounds promising, at it seems a better ideea. I hope that you did not got offended.
 
I am just saying that it is nice for a company to not ask 2500$ for something that sounds the same as a 2500 product. I agree it costing 500 instead of 700 would be even better, but it may not be possible. quality of a product has to suffer if you are pushing costs too much.
 
On another note i don't want to have wifi or other fancy stuff if sq has to suffer, either.

 

[headwhacker]

  problem is many of my phones are already capable of producing plenty of low end,but i still want to know what they are capable of beyond a flat signal,because when attenuating or increasing specific frequencies across the band you'll often find many headphones have potential you weren't aware of  thus the giving you a more dynamic listening experience without the need to have a different headphone or iem for every genre
 
and as far as bass boost implementation being complicated,expensive or taking up valued space for something more important,i'm not certain i agree. sony have the clear bass function on all of their walkman players including the introductory e series which you can get for under $99 (16gb model) and which are far thinner and smaller than any fiio player. and again, if you want a clean signal,simply leave the enhancements off, and you have no issue whatsoever in pairing any specific headphones.
 
i'm honestly stunned by this notion over the last few years that using any sound enhancing function is bad or 'eq is the devil', especially as i grew up listening to my music on my parents hi fidelity separate components systems from the 70s where tuner's came with bass mid & treble toggles and  amplifiers either had equalizers built in, or if they didn't you added a separate equalizer to your system ,and never did anyone think 'but if you alter the parameter of any band within the frequency range you're polluting the purity of the signal!' 

 
i think this mindset has arisen specifically from the generation who grew up on DAPs and/or spend more time reading measurement charts and graphs and listening to their gear more than actually listening to the music that comes out of it.t i'll never understand wanting less options on any player so long as they remain optional  and the sound quality remains top notch. at the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference though.okay early morning rant over (and all this before my first coffee).

 
I didn't say EQ is bad. The question is how the EQ is implement. Like I said implementing a hardware-based EQ in a small package like a DAP is often half-baked and compromised. Your parent's hifi system don't have the constraints of a must-be-pocketable DAP.
 
Why not maximize the limited space to a best possible DAC/Amp implementation without any gimmick and just implement EQ via software. You are playing digital music anyway.  Battery life is another concern which is more important in a DAP than a hardware-based EQ.
 
If X7 turns out to sound like a DX100 but in a much smaller a pocket-friendly size. It is already a winner. Same goes with the HM-901.

 

[mr-duke]

  Don't do this. It is great for a company to make a nice product, but all companies need to start winning more money at some point. And i don't agree with what you are saying. I tried to pick a phone for myself, within any price range. I ended up planning to buy note4. Mainly because no other phone met all my needs [battery, big screen, quality screen, good enough processor for my browsing]. 
 
z3 is a very poor choice when it is the exact same thing as z2, only an updated version of android. In fact, z3 has the same specs, even less battery. I have no ideea who would buy something like that. I am serious, gsmarena says they are the same thing, and i don't have any ideea why it exists. it is one of the worst products to be released taking price/quality ratio into account.
 
another thought is that x7 is trying to be somethig else from x5. like x1 and x3 are different things. Think outside of the box, a good company producing an expensive product doesn't mean it is the end of the world. If fiio could make wooaudio wa234 mono, at a price point of say 2500-3000, insead of 21000 it would be something nice to be seen. now, you wouldn't pay 21000 for wa234 anyways, so why bother with the product that fiio would make at that price, if you catch my drift. If fiio competes with cowon p1 and ak240 and chord hugo, ask yourself if you would buy any of these and you will be able to answer yourself why you are not willing to pay 700$ for x7. I am from the crowd that would pay 2000$ for chord hugo, but as fiio is going to release their x7 at 700, i am waiting for their product, as it sounds promising, at it seems a better ideea. I hope that you did not got offended.
 
I am just saying that it is nice for a company to not ask 2500$ for something that sounds the same as a 2500 product. I agree it costing 500 instead of 700 would be even better, but it may not be possible. quality of a product has to suffer if you are pushing costs too much.
 
On another note i don't want to have wifi or other fancy stuff if sq has to suffer, either.

 
Agree with many things you are saying! Nothing wrong with your thought or your buying habbits As long there is people are willing to pay high price for someting, there will bee company that are willing to make that kind of product and charge the that kind of high price
 
Sony Z2 and Z3, is a bad example, lets take Samsung S2, S3,S4,S5 or HTC One X, One M7, One M8, what ever phone model. These company making better phone every year, pushing the development forward, but charge you the same price!!!!!!!! How would you react if Samsung charge 100$ extra for the built in fingerprint reader ?  Rember, I bough a Dell top of the line computer in 2004 for 3,500 USD, ten year later (2014) i buy top spec computer for 1500 usd.
 
Same goes for BMW 320 that my friend bought new in 2003 for 45 000$ in European, and  11 year later, the BMW 320  still cost around 45 000$ but you get a better ca, newer, fuel effiency, better looking and so on. You even got bluetooth streaming in that car . But BMW never charge you more for all the technology development. That is what i call development and Dutch engineering.
 
 
Just because some people are coming from a more expensive audio gear and find X7 cheap, doesn't mean Fiio X7 at 700$ is cheap!!! If one person that have been driven a luxury sportcar like Lamborghini he find BMW M3 at a much much lower price great value for the money, doesn't mean that M3 has a good value for moneu or cheap. It is hell expensive.
 
 
I find Fiio's product as cheap and have a good value before, but this is not the case anymore as they are raising thier price when new products is releasing. That is sad that some people here found it great value, properly they don't know how to spend thier hard earned money a better way Just like buying a new BMW M3 and thinking of that Lamborghini and remind yourself, what a great deal i have made, i have just bough a 5-8 times cheaper car, and dont forget keep smiling

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Does spotify have recordings of live music.  I have over 6000 shows, one as early as 1937 and one as recent as 2 days ago, in all genres.  For example I have over 350 Miles Davis concerts dating back to 1946.  Unless spotify can provide this, consider me a dinosaur.  Different strokes for different folks.

You are one in a million, in a very minor subset of music genres. Fiio doesn't care about you. it's like me saying "what about my super rare soundtrack collection? I need a player for it!" We don't matter. So niche it doesn't even register. The majority of music consumers are going to be plenty happy with what they can get on spotify. I consume a lot, and I'm pretty happy with what I can get. It's more than I can consume if I listen 24/7 until I'm dead.

As I said, it doesn't fill all the holes. There are still strange omissions from catalogues and some bands not represented at all. It's also weak on soundtracks so who knows if that will get fixed. So right now, I have been transferring all the things I can't get on spotify to my x5, which isn't very much.

This being an Android device we certainly hope the X7 will be able to run Spotify. However our goal is still to cater to the audiophile looking for the best decoding and amplification quality from their DAP. That using the Android system may enable use of various software-based sound enhancement and correction tools (including a pet favorite of mine I won't name here ) is just icing on the cake. Of course, that is but a user-selectable option--for audio purists, no software should come between the music file and the music output unless you choose to install such.

On the question of hardware EQ, a properly implemented software EQ will trump the hardware EQ in all objective parameters and is completely bypassable.

 

[mr-duke]

   
People will buy what they can afford. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything at a certain price. Truth is, consumer will always want more for the lowest price and a manufacturer will want to sell a product for the highest price for the smallest cost. Rationalizing how a product is worth based on materials used and where it is made doesn't work.
 
There is a saying that "you always get what you paid for" But that is most of the time not true in Audio

 
Like you said, it is not all the time you get what you are paying, audio market is so lousy!  
 
Nobody is forcing you buying anything, and people is buying what they are afford of, but the problem is whatever they are buying, and whatever price they are ready to pay, they alway find it good value for the money. That is sad, because that is how those company earning money from the buyer

 

[Levanter]

I find Fiio's product as cheap and have a good value before, but this is not the case anymore as they are raising thier price when new products is releasing. That is sad that some people here found it great value, properly they don't know how to spend thier hard earned money a better way Just like buying a new BMW M3 and thinking of that Lamborghini and remind yourself, what a great deal i have made, i have just bough a 5-8 times cheaper car, and dont forget keep smiling

 
For a flagship at $700 competing with other flagships Calyx M - $999, HM901 - $999, AK120 - $1,699, AK240 - $2,500, Cowon Plenue P1 - $1,199, they are still the cheapest flagship around.
Perhaps you're in the wrong hobby/passion since most people consider those who spends $100s for an earphone as "not knowing how to spend their hard earned money"

 

[mr-duke]

   
For a flagship at $700 competing with other flagships Calyx M - $999, HM901 - $999, AK120 - $1,699, AK240 - $2,500, Cowon Plenue P1 - $1,199, they are still the cheapest flagship around.
Perhaps you're in the wrong hobby/passion since most people consider those who spends $100s for an earphone as "not knowing how to spend their hard earned money"

 
You are right too! X7 is still the cheapest high end DAP compared to othe DAP, if it reach high end sound.
 
The point is Fiio has always been 100-300$ catergori, Moving to high end product and price, it is interesting to see where the company is pricing thier product in 3-4 year later.
 
It is nothing wrong with my hobby but I will never consider a product as cheap at the price  of 700$ just because there is other DAP that is more expensive.
 
Well well there are tons of electronic company in CHINA, and they are moving to audio market now, if 700$ or 1000$ is no problem for some of us, then the chinese company is just happy.
 
For the developing time, engineering cost, salary, manufacturing cost, component, AD, with all these in mind, the product should not even cost more than 300$.
 
Hey!!  some chinese companys maybe even have child labour in thier fabrics

 

[Levanter]

   
You are right too! X7 is still the cheapest high end DAP compared to othe DAP, if it reach high end sound.
 
The point is Fiio has always been 100-300$ catergori, Moving to high end product and price, it is interesting to see where the company is pricing thier product in 3-4 year later.
 
It is nothing wrong with my hobby but I will never consider a product as cheap at the price  of 700$ just because there is other DAP that is more expensive.
 
Well well there are tons of electronic company in CHINA, and they are moving to audio market now, if 700$ or 1000$ is no problem for some of us, then the chinese company is just happy.
 
For the developing time, engineering cost, salary, manufacturing cost, component, AD, with all these in mind, the product should not even cost more than 300$.
 
Hey!!  some chinese companys maybe even have child labour in thier fabrics

 
Don't forget, a number of these manufacturing companies are owned/employed by westerners, e.g Apple.
So i'm glad Chinese companies are rising up instead of being exploited for their "cheap" labour. I have no qualms on them increasing their price/cost, as most tech stuffs are now developed/manufactured/RMD in China. It's not far reaching to say that China is rising up as the tech giants, and after decades of manufacturing electronics, their quality is almost on par with products made in the west.
 
Btw, if $700 is considered mid range for headphones, i have no qualms in considering $700 as mid range for DAPs.

 

[olddude]

You buy what you want based on price/quality/status.  If you think $700 is too much, then don't buy an X7.  That's simple.  Fiio is not standing still, it is advancing, and at vary reasonable  money rates, to compete with higher-end equipment at a mid-range price.  This is just good business.
 
If at some point it decides to sell a $2200 device, then we as consumers may buy it, or look for less-expensive alternatives elsewhere.  As you say, China is full of companies looking for business that might undercut Fiio's prices/quality.  Just as Fiio is doing the same to A&K and Hugo.
 
Child labor?  What has that got to do with anything?  If you have bought an X1 or an X3 (or ANYTHING from Walmart), you've already bought Chinese goods.  If child labor is being used, you are already guilty of supporting it.  Do you think Fiio would use child labor on the X7 but not on its lower-end devices?  Try to keep on-topic and make sense, please.
 
Joe- Thank you for the update.  This is all sounding better and better (though I'm no fan of Android).  It seems that Fiio understands it core customers quite well, and is going to produce a device for them with a few extras that can be easily turned off.  If can't please everybody, but as long as it pleases its core group things will be just fine.  I'm looking forward to more info as you release it.  

 

[reihead]

This thread skyrocketed!
 
I feel better with the limitations on apps that can be installed and the amount of apps running at the same time. To me, this shows Fiio gets it, putting the DAP high-quality sound firsts! and won't let android and it's ecosystem to get in the middle.

 

[olddude]

Audiophile. Portable.  Music.  Player.  Not a glorified smartphone.  From what James are Joe have been saying, they get it.