[Bellyworshipper]

tomscy2000, sorry I didn't know about your mentioning as I have not been following this trend from its start Actually, I got interested in it just a couple of weeks ago...
 
Quote:

 In fact, for power saving measures, I'd even go as far as to suggest a separate and independent "mid-fi" mode in the X7, where the main circuit is perhaps derived from the X1, with a PCM5122 or ES9016K2M and perhaps a lower-power chip amp (e.g. MAX97220A, ES9601, TPA6130A2, etc.) that provides decent sound quality at a fraction of the power consumption...

I presume, this idea has been around for quite a while, but in my opinion is not going to be implemented in any DAP in the near future because of the comparative complexity of design. Manufacturers, obviously, try to develop a single, most preferrable from the point of view of SQ\power consumption circuitry design without any "optional" modes and data paths.

With all that being said, I agree with the sentiment that designs shouldn't be confined only to the choice of ESS chips merely because they're a popular choice and that audiophiles tend to have a positive opinion of them. Personally, I find that well-designed PCM1792A topologies compete every bit as well against ESS designs

   Fully agree with you, if you want my opinion It's just the foppish ESS specs (high SNR, DSD support up to x256 mode, while PCM 1792A supports only x64 mode, as I conclude from the data sheet) and advertisement that make one manufacturer's chips being "better" in all the aspects, than the other manufacturer's products. Though, allegedly, ESS DACs have a more sophisticated internal jitter suppression mechanism, which makes them more preferrable for mobile applications, but only in case the DAP manufacturer doesn't include a dedicated TXCO chip in the DAP design (which is beneficial even for ESS DACs)
 

 The key phrase here is well-designed. Anything can sound extremely good with any high-quality DAC chip, high-quality I/V conversion, and high-quality amplification stage, and precise power regulation

I think, many people, including myself, agree with you. Though, I don't quite realize why so many manufacturers so desperately cling to DAC chips' current output mode, while all the modern DACs also have a voltage output mode. Is it for better specs? But the difference between the voltage and current output mode specs is negligible, I think. Especially when all the "super specs" of a DAC chip itself are squandered in the amp stage. While choosing the voltage output mode from the beginning would have spared some space due to I\V conversion components exclusion.
As you mentioned;
 

 So, using whatever flagship level DAC chip, regardless of whether it's the ES9018S, ES9018K2M, PCM1792A, AK4399, WM8741, etc. is already superfluous. The question is layout and design

 Especially, when it's necessary to include good digital filters and other thing after the DAC.

 

[iamdacow]

Just out of curiosity, i see much love for sabre and wolfson, what about cirrus logic?

 

[Retrias]

I didnt quite like both cirrus and sabre sound sig , the DAC I would pick based on sig is either AKM , Wolfsons or the PCM to get the most organic sound possible

 

[Dobrescu George]

the most and absolutley most important feature is the sound quality... everyone who bought x5 has done so for the sound quality... i would be willing to pay for sound quality... this and more space... i cannot get enought space... like adding 4 microsd slots, or internal memory... did i mention sound quality?.... i can get e12 for more power, but the only DAC that sounds way better than x5 at the moment is AK240, which is way more expensive... you fiio would fill the gap with a player that sounds better than ak240... that would be the most important thing...
 
also, a nice feature would be more batterry...
 
 
my point of view, it can get bigger, thicker, and even uglyer. As much as you want as long as
-it sounds the best on the market
-it has the most memory
-it has the most batterry

 

[warrior1975]

No, please not uglier!!! It doesn't have to be ak sexy, but please don't turn this into a hifiman looking DAP!!! Sorry hifiman lovers...

 

[Dobrescu George]

ok, hifiman ugly would be too much, even for me... not that much... but for it to look good is not as relevant as it is to sound good... the best sound possible... this should be the target, right?...

 

[warrior1975]

Agreed, sound first, UI second, and looks a close 3rd...for me anyway. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me.

 

[Dobrescu George]

why disagree?... we are all paying a LOT for headphones that are sometimes ugly, but sound good... Tube amplifiers look like 70's radios..  and mostly audiophile things are made to SOUND good, not to look good... this is how i see it....
 
we are here only for the sound... skullcandy headhpones have the looks... but not the sound to be chosen by real audiophiles... this is the drift...

 

[Dobrescu George]

our discussion is mostly useless, as x7 has already been decided mostly... we still don't know how it will sound....

 

[warrior1975]

I really do like to have the best of both, great looks, and even better sound.

 

[Barra]

Where did this come from, it actually is reasonably pretty. It has Jame's name on it, is this a prototype drawing?
 

 

[Retrias]

thats the rejected design, see the first post

 

[Barra]

  thats the rejected design, see the first post

Thanks, if that is the rejected design, I cannot wait to see what passes. They are headed the right direction compared to my X5. I like the volume knob.

 

[Retrias]

i kinda like that rejected design, would have to agree that the side knob is very good

 

[Ripvanlink]

  ok, hifiman ugly would be too much, even for me... not that much... but for it to look good is not as relevant as it is to sound good... the best sound possible... this should be the target, right?...

I quite agree, SQ should be the target and I don't care if it's too big and heavy either. I don't consider the Hifiman daps to be ugly at all, I like the way they look, just wish the ui was better and faster.
As for the AK240 the shape I see in the pictures is a bit disconcerting like they tried to copy M.C. Escher but I will get a chance to see them live at the Coronado show this Saturday, Nov. 1st to really get a feel for how they look. I think, somehow, I will get a different impression then.