[ClieOS]

Thanks, @ClieOS
I always learn a lot from your posts. Does that mean all so-called native DSD DAP on the market go through DSD to PCM conversion before or inside the DAC?

 
Well, I don't know all of them so I really can't say. Many are 'native' in the sense that the DAC itself can accept DSD signal, not necessarily that all the internal decoding process will be purely DSD. Such in the case of CS4398, the choice is given to the manufacturer on what they want to used, depends on the implementation.

 

[CosmicHolyGhost]

I read that some desktop DAC internal decoding processes are all DSD, it will also upsample PCM to DSD?... Is that applicable to/feasible for portable devices?

 

[tomscy2000]

I don't get why people make such a big deal about the whole DSD/volume control issue. All modern DAC chips don't do DSD "natively", as in pure 1-bit delta-sigma modulation. ALL D/A ASICs these days use multi-order delta-sigma designs, which means nothing right now is a "purist" design.
 
It's also not difficult to add an additional layer of abstraction into the control loop for volume control. Let's get over the whole DSD and volume control debate. It's a moot point in today's world.

 

[Mimouille]

I don't get why people make such a big deal about the whole DSD/volume control issue. All modern DAC chips don't do DSD "natively", as in pure 1-bit delta-sigma modulation. ALL D/A ASICs these days use multi-order delta-sigma designs, which means nothing right now is a "purist" design.

It's also not difficult to add an additional layer of abstraction into the control loop for volume control. Let's get over the whole DSD and volume control debate. It's a moot point in today's world.

I don't even understand why people care about DSD.

 

[Poimandres]

I don't even understand why people care about DSD.

X2, for once we agree.

 

[CosmicHolyGhost]

sorry guys
looks like i have asked a taboo question.... just checking on an important (to me) feature before deciding to buy or not

 

[tomscy2000]

  I don't even understand why people care about DSD.

It's a palindromic acronym. Duh!

 

[Mimouille]

X2, for once we agree.

the start of a beautiful friendship

 

[Mimouille]

It's a palindromic acronym. Duh!

And everybody likes double Ds

 

[ClieOS]

It is like 24/192 of yesteryear, where everyone wants one but most have no idea what it is. Now that most have it, they need something else to obsess about.

 

[CosmicHolyGhost]

yes, it makes no sense to buy DAP that cannot support up to 24/192 at the very least in 2014.

 

[Poimandres]

And everybody likes double Ds

Indeed, two times in the same day. It is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

 

[delrosa81]

  Well, iriver is not cheating per se. They just use the same marketing term by Cirrus Logic. It is true that pure DSD decoding just can't work with digital volume control. It is because digital volume control will lower the bitrate of the signal, and DSD only has one single bit to begin with. Whenever you see a DAC that claims to support native DSD decoding and digital volume control, there must be some kind of internal PCM conversion. By the CS4398's datasheet, they put in a 'DSD processor' for volume control, yet they also allow it to be switched off for a 'pure DSD conversion', which does not offer any volume control. The words they used are pretty veil, so I assume the so called DSD processor is just a DSD-to-PCM conversion stage, but they don't want to spill the beans as it isn't exactly good marketing material.
 
I think it is also possible to implement some kind of analog volume control stage at the output of the DAC. So it is more like a digitally controlled analog volume control..

Thanks for sharing ClieOS, learnt alot reading your posts and although Im not very into DSD, still its good to know and learn more. Cheers!

 

[JamesFiiO]

about the native DSD support, we will like to think that if the Soc is output the DSD signal to DAC chip and the DAC chip is supports DSD, them we can call it native DSD support.
 
I had talk with the engineer who came from TI , he had included in the design team of CS4398 and PCM1792, and discussed with him about what is native DSD cause some DAC
 
convert the DSD to PCM inside. but he have not give me a answer cause there are not any standard about native DSD, so, we will like to think it is native DSD support in X7 , but 
 
we will not response to the question whether an DAC chip is support native DSD.

 

[JamesFiiO]

or maybe someone can let us know which DAP supports native DSD?