[TheoS53]

I for one drive a German, so it's practically noise free. But Audio Reiner hit the nail on the head...for some reason 2.2 doesn't seem as spacious. It's really weird.

Also, ghostwraith has done tests as he has shown. Now, audio engineering is not my field of expertise....mechanical and automotive engineering is. Anyways, he has done tests and clearly there is a difference between 2.0 and 2.2. I encourage those who question his methods and what not. But the point is, regardless of whether he was measuring noise or distortion; whether he was measuring from the headphone out or lineout, there is a difference, when it seems that there shouldn't have been.
 
Also someone mentioned that he should be using a higher load on the lineout. I agree with that, however, the point of an experiment is to see the effect of changing various variables....regardless of whether or not he used too low of a load on the lineout, as long as the load was the same when doing the tests on the different fw versions it doesn't really matter

 

[Brooko]

  I for one drive a German, so it's practically noise free. But Audio Reiner hit the nail on the head...for some reason 2.2 doesn't seem as spacious. It's really weird.

Also, ghostwraith has done tests as he has shown. Now, audio engineering is not my field of expertise....mechanical and automotive engineering is. Anyways, he has done tests and clearly there is a difference between 2.0 and 2.2. I encourage those who question his methods and what not. But the point is, regardless of whether he was measuring noise or distortion; whether he was measuring from the headphone out or lineout, there is a difference, when it seems that there shouldn't have been.
 
Also someone mentioned that he should be using a higher load on the lineout. I agree with that, however, the point of an experiment is to see the effect of changing various variables....regardless of whether or not he used too low of a load on the lineout, as long as the load was the same when doing the tests on the different fw versions it doesn't really matter

 
Whether you drive a German made car or not is immaterial.  Audio in the car still has a higher ambient noise floor so actually telling the difference in a car would be more difficult.
 
Ghostwraith's tests were proven by Loquah to be flawed by testing the line-out with wrong resistance.
 
But everyone is missing the point.  Even if there is slightly more distortion - IS IT AUDIBLE?
 
Suggest (once again) that those saying there is an audible difference try ClieOS' test.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/730848/fiio-x5-firmwares-sound-quality
 
You'll need an abx comparator (foobar plugin) - here's a how-to on that : http://www.head-fi.org/t/655879/setting-up-an-abx-test-simple-guide-to-ripping-tagging-transcoding
 
Make sure you volume match when making the comparisons.  If you're game. post the logs.

 

[TheoS53]

Yeah I'm not sure why I hear a difference in the car, but not through the headphones. Perhaps the number of speakers (12)? As I've said before, I heard the difference the first time and only later remembered that I had changed the firmware. 

The only reason I posted in this thread is because of that difference and wanted to see if anyone else had experienced the same. Before that I was unaware of this thread. 

I agree that ghostwraith's methods are flawed. But like I said, as long as the same "flaws" were repeated throughout all the tests, then it shouldn't matter. The results wont be accurate, but I don't think they are to be dismissed either. If he did the test twice on a particular fw version using the same method, he should get the exact same "flawed" result for each test, since there wouldn't be a difference. So the same would apply between different fw versions....if nothing had been changed in the processing of the signal, he should get identical results. 

Anyways, we're all here simply to discuss, not to try and rip each other a new one. Whether there actually is a difference or not wont make a damn bit of difference to anyone's life lol.

 

[Brooko]

I agree - and it's up to everyone to form their own opinion.  I just find it hilariously funny, that for the few that claim the difference, when asked to conduct a simple test - where output has been recorded from different firmware versions - won't actually test themselves to see if the change is audible.
 
It's a simple test, costs nothing but time, software is free, and easy to set up.  Guess what the result is from everyone who's actually tried the test so far .... ?

 

[TheoS53]

I agree - and it's up to everyone to form their own opinion.  I just find it hilariously funny, that for the few that claim the difference, when asked to conduct a simple test - where output has been recorded from different firmware versions - won't actually test themselves to see if the change is audible.

It's a simple test, costs nothing but time, software is free, and easy to set up.  Guess what the result is from everyone who's actually tried the test so far .... ?

I'm happy to do the test. Will get the files loaded on the X5 as soon as I get my PC going again. Busy installing some liquid cooling on the GPU :-D

 

[TheoS53]

Just to double-check....am I suppose to play the files from the X5 or from a different source?

The reasons I ask: 1. If there is in fact a difference, wouldn't the fw version on the x5 influence the test?
2. If it is suppose to be from a different source, that would make the test invalid. For example, my PC sound card and speakers couldn't hope to produce the clarity and detail that I get with my x5+e12+fxz200...so I doubt that would make the difference apparent

 

[Brooko]

I'm happy to do the test. Will get the files loaded on the X5 as soon as I get my PC going again. Busy installing some liquid cooling on the GPU :-D

Do the test on your PC. Files were originally created by ClieOS from the X5.

Have fun with the build. I always wanted to try liquid with my system at some stage.

 

[TheoS53]

Do the test on your PC. Files were originally created by ClieOS from the X5.

Have fun with the build. I always wanted to try liquid with my system at some stage.

Check my comment about using the PC.


Off topic...liquid cooling is awesome. Have a look at the Thermaltake 3.0 range. All in one coolers so its dead easy to install. I'm using the Extreme for the CPU and the Pro for the GPU. But in order to use a CPU cooler on the GPU you will need to remove the stock cooling system and replace it with something like the NZXT Kraken G10

 

[Brooko]

Again - test files were created on the X5 and recorded to PC under different firmware versions. Assuming that there a an audible difference (as a few have claimed) there should be no trouble to tell one file from another using Foobar and it's abx tool.

In reality - you're not going to be able to tell the files apart using a properly conducted blind test - because the differences aren't audible.

 

[TheoS53]

Again - test files were created on the X5 and recorded to PC under different firmware versions. Assuming that there a an audible difference (as a few have claimed) there should be no trouble to tell one file from another using Foobar and it's abx tool.

In reality - you're not going to be able to tell the files apart using a properly conducted blind test - because the differences aren't audible.

Ok but that's what I'm saying. Let's assume that there is a difference. You're relying on the various PC components to portray that difference. If your PC's soundcard is far below the level of the X5 (as mine is)....how does that make for a fair test?

If I relate this to the car world. Usually on a turbocharged vehicle you get roughly a 20% increase in power when doing a stage 1 tune. There will be a massive difference between a 1.4L engine and a 3.5L V6 lol

 

[TheoS53]

Just to make it clear. If I listen to Africa by Toto through the x5+e12+fxz200 or with the x5+e12 plugged into the car, in the beginning I can hear one of the band members chuckle. Now, when I plug the x5+e12 into my PC speakers, I cannot hear that tiny detail...no matter how loud I go or how close I get to the speaker ...get what I mean?

 

[Brooko]

Use your beet headphones. Unless your PC sound card is extremely bad (noisy)?- it should be fine. An alternative is to use the x5 as DAC. Again we're concerned with what is audible - hence the need for a properly volume matched abx.

 

[ghostwraith]

I want to say that the differences in the sound signature of highly distinguishable, even in such conditions.

 

[Brooko]

I want to say that the differences in the sound signature of highly distinguishable, even in such conditions.

Prove it - take ClieOS test - post the abx logs

 

[ghostwraith]

Prove it - take ClieOS test - post the abx logs

 
as soon as the opportunity arises, I will do tests and lay here