[x RELIC x]

The only headphone/IEM I have with a sensitivity and impedance close to the Meze 99 Classic is the LCD-i4 (35 Ohm, 105dB SPL/mW).

...

Oh wait, I also have the Vmoda M-100 (32 Ohm, 103dB SPL/mW - retired long ago), and I can test it as well for you later with the X5iii to get you a ballpark of my volume settings, since you asked. Likely in about 12 hours. I’ll also do a very rough measurement at those levels.

Following up on this @Dobrescu George. All volume tests were done with low gain and no EQ. I’m using my smartphone with a SPL meter app and a foam board over the ear cup with a slit cut out for the phone’s mic end to poke through. This creates a seal on the ear cup. I readily admit this measurement method isn’t entirely accurate but it does get me in the ballpark.

I’ve tested the V-Moda M-100 (32 Ohm, 103dB SPL/mW) with the X5iii and for my listening levels I use approximately 45/120 on the X5iii with that headphone. Depending on the track I get an average of 83dB with some peaks around 95 with most of my music. However, I know you like metal and the closest thing I’ve got is Metallica Enter Sandman which I roughly measured around 91dB average and a peak over 105dB (the app doesn’t go above 105dB) - time stamp for this measurement is around 2:45.



Now, that doesn’t mean the whole song is at this level but I wouldn’t go any higher for any length of time. Also, I hate the way the bass overwhelms the sound signature of this headphone and I found that I did want to turn it up otherwise it sounded very muddy, especially from the X5iii. I also didn’t apply any EQ. A note on the EQ, it’s only -6dB and +6dB for a total of 12dB adjustment range. If you have everything lowered to the bottom then you are subtracting -6dB from 0 and not -12dB as you mentioned earlier.

I tried to test the LCD-i4 but it was near impossible to get a stable measurement given the size of the nozzle, but 40-45/120 seemed like a great volume for me. The LCD-2 that I have was driven well at 65-70/120 for my tastes. I also tried the ETHER C Flow (23 Ohms, 92dB/mW) and set the volume to 65/120 and it sounded better to me than the LCD-2, given the synergy with the X5iii.

When / if you test the X5iii again the one volume setting to reference my levels is the V-MODA M-100 as a comparison to your 99 Classics as they are the closest in sensitivity. One thing I’m surprised by is the comment from you that ie800 (16 Ohm, 125dB SPL/1V) at 90% of the X7ii’s volume (AM3A?) is normal to you... seems loud.

Also consider that every 10dB increase in SPL is 10x the driving power, but it represents a 2x perceived increase in loudness to our brains given the logarithmic nature of the decibel scale. Anyway, these are the levels I listen at for around 80-85dB SPL average. A continuous SPL of 85dB is considered safe listening for 8 hours within a day, but an average 100dB SPL is considered safe for only 15 minutes (even though it is perceived as only 2.5x as loud). If you listen at 106dB SPL average the safe listening time before damage may occur in only 3minutes and 45seconds. 112dB for under 1minute... you get the idea, as you go louder the safe listening time reduces exponentially.

Hopefully this can help others as well and I sincerely hope Head Fi members take their hearing seriously as I constantly read how loud people listen.

 

[matique]

Check to see if you have any google services runnin in android. That seems to be the issue normally.

The issue was google services in the end i think, i disabled sync just to make sure. I don't know, i just turn off the player when i'm not using it now. Haha.

 

[Dobrescu George]

Following up on this @Dobrescu George. All volume tests were done with low gain and no EQ. I’m using my smartphone with a SPL meter app and a foam board over the ear cup with a slit cut out for the phone’s mic end to poke through. This creates a seal on the ear cup. I readily admit this measurement method isn’t entirely accurate but it does get me in the ballpark.

I’ve tested the V-Moda M-100 (32 Ohm, 103dB SPL/mW) with the X5iii and for my listening levels I use approximately 45/120 on the X5iii with that headphone. Depending on the track I get an average of 83dB with some peaks around 95 with most of my music. However, I know you like metal and the closest thing I’ve got is Metallica Enter Sandman which I roughly measured around 91dB average and a peak over 105dB (the app doesn’t go above 105dB) - time stamp for this measurement is around 2:45.



Now, that doesn’t mean the whole song is at this level but I wouldn’t go any higher for any length of time. Also, I hate the way the bass overwhelms the sound signature of this headphone and I found that I did want to turn it up otherwise it sounded very muddy, especially from the X5iii. I also didn’t apply any EQ. A note on the EQ, it’s only -6dB and +6dB for a total of 12dB adjustment range. If you have everything lowered to the bottom then you are subtracting -6dB from 0 and not -12dB as you mentioned earlier.

I tried to test the LCD-i4 but it was near impossible to get a stable measurement given the size of the nozzle, but 40-45/120 seemed like a great volume for me. The LCD-2 that I have was driven well at 65-70/120 for my tastes. I also tried the ETHER C Flow (23 Ohms, 92dB/mW) and set the volume to 65/120 and it sounded better to me than the LCD-2, given the synergy with the X5iii.

When / if you test the X5iii again the one volume setting to reference my levels is the V-MODA M-100 as a comparison to your 99 Classics as they are the closest in sensitivity. One thing I’m surprised by is the comment from you that ie800 (16 Ohm, 125dB SPL/1V) at 90% of the X7ii’s volume (AM3A?) is normal to you... seems loud.

Also consider that every 10dB increase in SPL is 10x the driving power, but it represents a 2x perceived increase in loudness to our brains given the logarithmic nature of the decibel scale. Anyway, these are the levels I listen at for around 80-85dB SPL average. A continuous SPL of 85dB is considered safe listening for 8 hours within a day, but an average 100dB SPL is considered safe for only 15 minutes (even though it is perceived as only 2.5x as loud). If you listen at 106dB SPL average the safe listening time before damage may occur in only 3minutes and 45seconds. 112dB for under 1minute... you get the idea, as you go louder the safe listening time reduces exponentially.

Hopefully this can help others as well and I sincerely hope Head Fi members take their hearing seriously as I constantly read how loud people listen.

Thank you for checking for me!

Hm...

About the attenuation, when you engage the EQ, the volume level already drops by 6dB, so at 0, it is actually at a -6dB, at -6 dB it is actually at -12dB, and at +6dB, it is actually at 0dB, if my understanding of FiiO's EQ implementation is correct. I think this was discussed a few times.

I own the X7mkii, not the X5-3 so I cannot run tests on X5-3 the same way I can on X7mkii, except for when I meet with my audiophile friends.

With Meze 99C, I drop all the sliders, except for the 16kHz one, so there is a difference of about 12dB between the volume of everything and the treble, which is perfect for them, or rather, I would make even 18 - 21 dB of a difference there. They simply sound much better with more EQ, but not only in the treble, but the midrange opens up and sounds vivider.

About the listening levels, I agree, about 85dB is what would be safe for longer periods of time. I tend to sometimes blast a single song at louder levels, then come at lower volumes when the volume-fatigue kicks in.

I think I miswrote the volume of ie800, it is around 90 / 120 for X7mkii, so more like 75% of X7mkii's volume, or less.

 

[LightBlue77]

how does this volume drop on eq activation help when all slides are zero(flat)?
it is a bug, but they serve it as a feature.
another one is the shuffle mode which is not shuffle at all, it plays some songs, sometime repeats them but some are never played. it's like this on x3 and x5iii. same buggy algorithm.

 

[Dobrescu George]

how does this volume drop on eq activation help when all slides are zero(flat)?
it is a bug, but they serve it as a feature.
another one is the shuffle mode which is not shuffle at all, it plays some songs, sometime repeats them but some are never played. it's like this on x3 and x5iii. same buggy algorithm.

The drop on EQ activation is a feature, so you do not go above 0 dB even at max +6 on a slider. This is done to avoid clipping, which would add distortion, so I do not condemn anyone implementing this, it keeps people from going over the board. Digital signals can only be at max 1, which is clipping. In theory, if you'd increase the EQ slider above 0dB, you'd be adding clipping, so FiiO avoids this by limiting the max an EQ slider can go at 0dB, dropping the flat at -6dB and -6dB being at -12dB. Believe me, you want this implementation whenever possible, it is the cleanest and best sounding there is.

The Shuffle algorithm has been changed a few times so far, since I've been owning FiiO devices since the first X5. At this point, it should be quite okay. Do you have the same song twice, for any song?

 

[ailean]

how does this volume drop on eq activation help when all slides are zero(flat)?
it is a bug, but they serve it as a feature.
another one is the shuffle mode which is not shuffle at all, it plays some songs, sometime repeats them but some are never played. it's like this on x3 and x5iii. same buggy algorithm.

Like most devices I've had it's more a 'Random' rather then 'Shuffle' and most things do random really badly. Even stuff that shuffles tend to reset the shuffle order when ever powered off so you often get lots of common songs and ones that never get played.
Most of the time I 'shuffle' all songs and out of 5000 tracks I can pretty much guess which 100 odd tracks will get played. Back when I used iPod/iPhone you could at least plug the thing into iTunes occationally and sort all the tracks by play count so see how bad it was and I used to sometimes create playlists of the 0 plays tracks just to get to listen to 'new' stuff for a while.

 

[WitzyZed]

I keep foobar around just for when I want to shuffle my library.

You press shuffle all tracks & you get a shuffled list and it will play in that order!
You press shuffle all albums & you get albums shuffles and it will play in that order!

Shuffle in FiiO music you can only go back to the previous song played, like ONCE. Any more skips back and forth and you're on a completely different shuffled order.

 

[x RELIC x]

Thank you for checking for me!

Hm...

About the attenuation, when you engage the EQ, the volume level already drops by 6dB, so at 0, it is actually at a -6dB, at -6 dB it is actually at -12dB, and at +6dB, it is actually at 0dB, if my understanding of FiiO's EQ implementation is correct. I think this was discussed a few times.

I own the X7mkii, not the X5-3 so I cannot run tests on X5-3 the same way I can on X7mkii, except for when I meet with my audiophile friends.

With Meze 99C, I drop all the sliders, except for the 16kHz one, so there is a difference of about 12dB between the volume of everything and the treble, which is perfect for them, or rather, I would make even 18 - 21 dB of a difference there. They simply sound much better with more EQ, but not only in the treble, but the midrange opens up and sounds vivider.

About the listening levels, I agree, about 85dB is what would be safe for longer periods of time. I tend to sometimes blast a single song at louder levels, then come at lower volumes when the volume-fatigue kicks in.

I think I miswrote the volume of ie800, it is around 90 / 120 for X7mkii, so more like 75% of X7mkii's volume, or less.

Ah, yes, I forgot about the -6dB drop for max clipping! Thank you for reminding me. At the same time what does high gain add? Anyway, I imagine others may be getting tired of this conversation so feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further. Cheers!

 

[LightBlue77]

yeah, they pick a random track one after another and this randomness is in fact some mathematical formula or some low (or maybe high) level function implemented based on current time or whatever.
the way foobar and sony daps do it is the way to go, make the shuffle list and play it.
as for the eq, no other dap has it, i mean the drop in volume when activated, it makes no sense. you need even more amping then and i'm not sure about sound quality but i'll check.

 

[aangen]

I keep foobar around just for when I want to shuffle my library.

You press shuffle all tracks & you get a shuffled list and it will play in that order!
You press shuffle all albums & you get albums shuffles and it will play in that order!

Shuffle in FiiO music you can only go back to the previous song played, like ONCE. Any more skips back and forth and you're on a completely different shuffled order.

How do you get Foobar on your X5iii? It does not appear in the fiio store.

Never mind, I figured it out. Took a bit to get both internal and both external folders into the media database. Then it took a reboot to get it to actually play. If the only thing Foobar can do is improve on random play all it will be my new favorite thing.

 

[markrich]

Like most devices I've had it's more a 'Random' rather than 'Shuffle' and most things do random really badly. Even stuff that shuffles tends to reset the shuffle order whenever powered off so you often get lots of common songs and ones that never get played.
Most of the time I 'shuffle' all songs and out of 5000 tracks, I can pretty much guess which 100 odd tracks will get played. Back when I used iPod/iPhone you could at least plug the thing into iTunes occasionally and sort all the tracks by play count so see how bad it was and I used to sometimes create playlists of the 0 plays tracks just to get to listen to 'new' stuff for a while.

The Apple shuffle option was always weighted towards playing songs you have played before because it thinks you like them. The more plays, the more likely it was to come up on shuffle which added to the play count and around it went again. I always found it very frustrating to keep hearing the same songs when there were so many to choose from. I'm not saying it only played songs played before but it was weighted.

With the X5III I have found the same artist to pop up during a random play, sometimes in the same album, but it's less weighted than the Apple approach was. It would be interesting to learn from someone at Fiio how their random function works. It's clearly not completely random on content.

 

[aangen]

The problem I have with the Fiio app Random play is in my experience it selects a finite number of songs and then repeats the same list. It may be as few as 30 songs before it repeats the whole sequence. It happened the same way with the X5 first gen. I am trying to play all songs randomly and it just doesn't work without repeats.

 

[Detectit]

Certain DSD subtypes, yes.
DSD64 / 2.8mHz, DSD128 / 5.6 mHz play natively...
However. If you have an .iso SACD disc image, the X5-III cannot always play this ".DST" format. It can play DFF or DSF files stored on your device, however.

And when those DSF files are stored on your NAS?

 

[New Fiio Owner]

Goodbye all, I have asked Brooko to delete all of my posts and close my profile.


Edit: On the advice of Brooko I will take a Chill Pill and consider returning.

Thanks to everyone who has helped me with their valuable hints and advice.

 

[bay14]

I recently just got an X5 III, loving it so far. Huge improvement over my phone and ancient iPod classic.

One issue I'm having is the buttons are unresponsive in secondary apps. For example, I installed Poweramp because I like the UI better but the skip track buttons don't work. Instead of skipping the song it instead fast forwards through the file at 10x speed. Other programs I've tried don't respond to the buttons at all.

Any solution to this? Thanks