[celcius]

Thanks, one more question... if I'm only planning to use it with ~$100 headphones for now like the AD700s and on the go instead of serious listening at home then it probably wouldn't be worth getting the X5 over the X3 right?

 

[mandrake50]

  Thanks, one more question... if I'm only planning to use it with ~$100 headphones for now like the AD700s and on the go instead of serious listening at home then it probably wouldn't be worth getting the X5 over the X3 right?

It depends on what you want. There are differences other than sound (which some have said is close). Better screen, more power for driving (perhaps) a wider range of headphones, dual micro sd card slots...  Having never listened to the X3, I can't make a recommendation, but there are other variables to consider. Of course, your budget is an important consideration as well.
 
Is there an X3 thread? If so, maybe ask about your specific headphone combination there.

 

[Dobrescu George]

  Thanks, one more question... if I'm only planning to use it with ~$100 headphones for now like the AD700s and on the go instead of serious listening at home then it probably wouldn't be worth getting the X5 over the X3 right?

There is only one answer, test and see for yourself, do not belive anyone's else's ears, because even if someone might hear similar to you, no two individuals hear exactly the same thing. 
 
Theoretically, I used X5 and X5II with cheap IEMs and headphones, and the differences are amazing. For refference, the difference of using a gread DAC + AMP is felt in any price range of headphones. 
 
 
 
 
 
@JaZZ I agree with the statement about much better. I think that in the absence of enough disposable cash, one can really live with either X5II + E12a or Hugo, or X5II alone.
 
 
 
Though, with ie800 and ie8 from sennheiser I do get Hiss with X5, and did get with Hugo. X5II I had not tested in depth for hiss. I can only say that I like the sound coming from hugo, by passing through E12A more, to get a black background. But the unit I tested from Hugo is one of the very early batches, so the sound might not be the same. 
 
 
I do hear hiss through every headphone but Hd650 and HD800, and I do hear hiss with my 64 ohm ultrasones. It is not very bad, but it is definetively not there when using E12A. In fact, before adding E12A, I never knew that there was any hiss with anything. Good advice, do not test more expensive equipment. 

 

[JaZZ]

  Though, with ie800 and ie8 from sennheiser I do get Hiss with X5, and did get with Hugo. X5II I had not tested in depth for hiss. I can only say that I like the sound coming from hugo, by passing through E12A more, to get a black background.

 
So what's your theory about vanishing of hiss by adding an amplifier using the same signal path?

My theory is that it can only add noise, not subtract it – unless it has a noise filter, e.g. in the form of a low-pass.

 

[mandrake50]

I too wondered about this. If we have noise going in, but none going out of the amp, we would have to wonder about the fidelity of the amp.
What else is it not passing? A non-defeatable high pass /noise filter  would not be something I would want.

 

[Dobrescu George]

   
So what's your theory about vanishing of hiss by adding an amplifier using the same signal path?

My theory is that it can only add noise, not subtract it – unless it has a noise filter, e.g. in the form of a low-pass.

I think that the ultra high impedance on E12A might have to do with this. And the line out of both X5 and X5II might be hiss free, and the hiss would be added by the op-amps. Similarly, to the op-amps in E12, which is pretty noisy. 

 

[mosshorn]

  Thats what I thought at first, that the noise was just a result of the x5 being revealing. Then thru the ami ds 5 the hissiness disappears and there is this "blackness" or "space" between instruments. Everything is a lot more clearer. I don't know how to describe what I'm hearing.....Its more something at the outer reaches of perception. Something that adds a kind of stress to the whole auditory experience. Like someone drew a thin white gauze over the whole music. I am reminded of a post a while back from Markrich who seemed to have a somewhat similar experience.
 
I am doubting that this is a faulty player. Believe me, I want to love this player, and I do love it as a standalone source. I was hoping that this "Gauziness" would disappear with burn in. While the bass and treble have vastly improved, this thin veil is still there and it makes everything sound compressed as well. Dunno if i'm making any sense here, but its hard to explain.
 
A friend who has the x3 II is reporting a similar noise issue. I'll be meeting him in 3 weeks time and I'll get to listen to it then.

I'm sitting here listening to the X5ii with my UERMs, which will pick up hiss off of almost anything. The X3ii had hiss for me, not as much as my Galaxy S6 mind you, but enough that it bugged me. This X5ii is dead silent.

 

[JaZZ]

  I think that the ultra high impedance on E12A might have to do with this. And the line out of both X5 and X5II might be hiss free, and the hiss would be added by the op-amps. Similarly, to the op-amps in E12, which is pretty noisy. 

 
I was actually talking of the Hugo. What you're saying is indeed possible – but you must have incredibly sensitive ears. I hear no noise at all from my FiiO players' headphone outputs nor from the Hugo's. Also, I wonder how the relatively cheap E12A can have a better output stage than the relatively expensive Hugo with its excellent measuring data. And even if the noise floor is lower, can this really be a substitute for the signal degration caused by the additional (effectively futile) amplification? The more so as most likely the great majority of the recordings will have a higher noise floor.

 

[danmlr]

   
I took this test too on my studio powered monitors. My score was 4/6. I listened to the samples on the same volume level I generally listen to music which is not high at all. I think that the tracks presented in the test for evaluation don't have enough musical data in them to begin with to notice what parts gone missing in the compression process (especially the track by Suzanne Vega). I tried the same test with a more complex music and I could tell without a doubt which file is the compressed one and what parts went missing. The reason that the authors of the test article on NPR wrote to turn the volume up is that the parts that are being left out by compression are the quietest ones.

Nice, thanks for reporting.
 
I've tried to A/B different tracks: AIFF vs. 320 mp3's created on itunes from those same AIFF files and had a really tough time telling the difference. 
 
With a good program, 320 mp3 can sound really, really good. 
 
At low volume, I have to admit that those wav files did not sound very good at all, on the website in question. 

 

[Dobrescu George]

   
I was actually talking of the Hugo. What you're saying is indeed possible – but you must have incredibly sensitive ears. I hear no noise at all from my FiiO players' headphone outputs nor from the Hugo's. Also, I wonder how the relatively cheap E12A can have a better output stage than the relatively expensive Hugo with its excellent measuring data. And even if the noise floor is lower, can this really be a substitute for the signal degration caused by the additional (effectively futile) amplification? The more so as most likely the great majority of the recordings will have a higher noise floor.

Funny thing. 
 
Actually, E12A has very good regarded op-amps, muses02. Hugo has no op-amps. My understanding of these is limited, and come as it may, I think that filtering the signal from hugo at 3Kohm literally filters the hiss down to a below noise floor level. This might make E12A sound like it looses some details, but it actually does not.  
 
To note, E12A is a smooth amp, it does make treble less sibiland and less harsh. 
 
Amps with lots of hiss tend to sound more energic and full of life, like E12 X5, Hugo, when E12A sounds very efortless, relaxed, like it is not giving a Fu about amping, it is easy for it. 
 
Also, to note, I push the volume on my E12A down to 1-2 oclock, seetspot at 11-12, with ie800, because I lower the volume on X5, by having EQ on, and dropping all sliders to -6. 
 
I am not sure if the lower hiss is worth it about adding more amping to hugo's signal. You can achieve a similar thing by adding a 150OHM plug in the signal path. Practically, high impedance makes hiss in-audible, as far as I noticed. Like hd650 or hd800 does not have hiss because of very high impedances. My ultrasone 64 ohm has lower hiss than ie8. With ie800 I like the sund better with E12A but I do not think that I hear hiss at all. I am not sure if I hear hiss or not. 

 

[JaZZ]

  Funny thing. 
 
Actually, E12A has very good regarded op-amps, muses02. Hugo has no op-amps. My understanding of these is limited, and come as it may, I think that filtering the signal from hugo at 3Kohm literally filters the hiss down to a below noise floor level. This might make E12A sound like it looses some details, but it actually does not.  
 
To note, E12A is a smooth amp, it does make treble less sibiland and less harsh. 
 
Amps with lots of hiss tend to sound more energic and full of life, like E12 X5, Hugo, when E12A sounds very efortless, relaxed, like it is not giving a Fu about amping, it is easy for it. 
 
Also, to note, I push the volume on my E12A down to 1-2 oclock, seetspot at 11-12, with ie800, because I lower the volume on X5, by having EQ on, and dropping all sliders to -6. 
 
I am not sure if the lower hiss is worth it about adding more amping to hugo's signal. You can achieve a similar thing by adding a 150OHM plug in the signal path. Practically, high impedance makes hiss in-audible, as far as I noticed. Like hd650 or hd800 does not have hiss because of very high impedances. My ultrasone 64 ohm has lower hiss than ie8. With ie800 I like the sund better with E12A but I do not think that I hear hiss at all. I am not sure if I hear hiss or not. 

 
I don't think it's a matter of impedance, it's a matter of sensitivity. However, you can't switch serial resistance to headphones without degrading the sound. So the idea is to use an amplifier for reducing the gain (!).
 
Now, as «good» as the E12A may be, it can't be as good (in the sense of transparent and accurate) as the direct connection to the Hugo. So I for one would never sacrifice the original transparency just to get rid of a bit of background noise (which I don't hear) that will become inaudible when music is playing, from recordings with their own background noise.

 

[Dobrescu George]

   
I don't think it's a matter of impedance, it's a matter of sensitivity. However, you can't switch serial resistance to headphones without degrading the sound. So the idea is to use an amplifier for reducing the gain (!).
 
Now, as «good» as the E12A may be, it can't be as good (in the sense of transparent and accurate) as the direct connection to the Hugo. So I for one would never sacrifice the original transparency just to get rid of a bit of background noise (which I don't hear) that will become inaudible when music is playing, from recordings with their own background noise.

I agree with you on one thing, sacrificing the transparency of Hugo might not be the best ideea. In fact, I do think that if you do not hear the hiss, it is best to use Hugo standalone, as the amp stage is just the simplest amp possible, and thus, the most transparent. 
 
But reducing hiss, leaves an impression of a larger soundstage, and smoother treble, at least when taking into account the synnergy with ie800. In fact, this is why I am using E12A as my main amp, the boost in soundstage is very well welcome. 
 
I cannot really discuss further why the soundstage would sound bigger, I can only say that it does, and after checking it, it just sounds like this, without me having any way to understand why.

 

[x RELIC x]

Guys, I realize the topic started with the X5ii hiss but it's spiralling in to an e12/Hugo topic. Please take it to PM or bounce over to the appropriate thread.

 

[RestoredSparda]

This Fiio is one nice piece of kit! I doubt my DX50 will get much use from now on.

 

[cehowardNote3]

I'd suggest you contact Fiio. First up - their measured specs show an SNR via H/O of >117 dB and via L/O of >115 dB (compare this to the flagship AK380 at 116 dB) and THD figures at below the realms of audibility. Secondly - every review I've read suggests an extremely black background - I know the review unit I had definitely shows this. I'd suggest either look at your set-up, or contact Fiio to get the unit tested, and then maybe go back and edit your review (once you find the cause).

You review is contrary to both the majority of other reviews and to actual measurements. That should suggest there is an issue with your unit or set-up.

 
Just lurking, a real newbie too. I waited until Amazon Prime got the X5 2nd Gen. I am spoiled by the prices, and no hassle/returns/customer service..
 
With that said, I have had my X5 2nd Gen for about 10 days. I have other things on this order, So, the X5ii wasn't getting all the much time. After I set it up, loaded music, and was starting to be a student of DAPs, when today, with my Senn M2 connected, I noticed, that I wasn't hearing much out the right can..Check the connection. The Senn M2 has a locked connection, so that was solid, on the X5ii, after pushing on the cable the sound came in the right can..Let go of the pressure the sound stopped in the right can.. Okay, I might have a bad cable, or heaven forbid, something went wrong with my beloved Senn M2..I switch over to my Sony MDR 1RBTMK2, same thing happening. And  this just happened.. Trying to figure out how could this be when it was working well earlier..
 
Well, the unit is too new for me to do any investigating.. Called Amazon, and they are shipping me another unit, with a mailing label to return the defective unit.
 
Now, that the defective  X5ii is all in the box waiting for the other unit to arrive, my mind started thinking on how this could happen. I recall carrying the X5ii with me today in MY POCKET. I am now thinking could some foreign matter get in that hole? The coax hole is covered, but the headphone jack is open. Not going to unpack it and look for it. Will just wait for the new unit in a couple days..
 
I said all that to say that it is possible to have some issues with these new units..