[Rob49]

Do you think the Sennheiser HD650's would be a good match with my X5ii & E12 combo ?

 

[DDDamian]

Do you think the Sennheiser HD650's would be a good match with my X5ii & E12 combo ?

It'll certainly give you a warmer and more laid-back sound than many cans. Just to be sure - that's the E12, not the E12a?

 

[Rob49]

It's the E12 Mont Blanc.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Unfortunately, about 90% of all DSD files were dropped to PCM at some point in the editing process and are not truly good tests of that format.  If you can find an analog recording that was directly transferred to DSD or can find natively recorded DSD files that never went through a PCM stage then you might receive the true benefit of DSD. Even though, there are those that argue that DSD has some high frequency artifacts that are simply pushed up into the inaudible portion of the frequency spectrum. 

Personally I think DSD files can sound great but finding proper source material is really tough. 

Snuff - if you want to try 3 files - check the dropbox link I left (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zcg8wb2a5hio2dq/AADs6vlxbTgTp6NrisxTwXRza?dl=0)

They were all recorded direct to DSD - no PCM.  Blue Coast recordings.

Thanks Brooko. I've downloaded and listened to the three songs and frankly, I'm thinking these are a showcase for why direct stream DSD recording and playback doesn't work in many cases--I'm hearing obvious boominess in the bass and obvious lack of high end sparkle in my reference system. I'd guess these were created by the recording environment and left uncorrected in the direct DSD recording. With the guidance of some real-time spectral analysis I made two simple parametric EQ adjustments, one a -6dB adjustment at a bit below 200Hz and another a +6dB high shelf at above around 5kHz, and it all sounds so much better, much more in line with other audiophile recordings I've sourced. Of course none of this would have been possible without on-the-fly conversion to PCM for my audio workstation to function...

Of course our players have the capability to complete the direct DSD chain and some FiiO staff might even find alot of use for it--I'm not one of them though...

Rob49, how are the DSP / sound effects settings on your ZX2 set? There's quite the set of them--ClearAudio+, Clear Bass, DSEE HX, Dynamic Normalizer, Equaliser (5 band), Surround Sound--and it may not be obvious at first glance whether all of them have been turned off--not that I'm the sort to advocate to "turn everything off" for "pure music", but unfortunately it's the only way for an apples-to-apples comparison between the ZX2 and the FiiO. On the other hand, it would be interesting to note whether any of the audio effects take effect when playing DSD files, because if they do, that suggests that the ZX2 may not be sending DSD directly to its DAC, as we are doing...

 

[El Zilcho]

Does anybody know if there is a way to disable the long press of the volume buttons skipping tracks when the display is off?  It's something I could get used to, but I just as soon disable it instead if that's possible.  I have the lock screen 3 setting, so I have forward and back skip buttons already and don't need the volume skip function. 
 
I tend to forget and hold the volume too long and end up skipping the song.  Like I said, I'll get used to it, but would rather disable it.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Does anybody know if there is a way to disable the long press of the volume buttons skipping tracks when the display is off?  It's something I could get used to, but I just as soon disable it instead if that's possible.  I have the lock screen 3 setting, so I have forward and back skip buttons already and don't need the volume skip function. 

I tend to forget and hold the volume too long and end up skipping the song.  Like I said, I'll get used to it, but would rather disable it.

Nope... I'd be charitable and say it's a built-in function for protecting your ears from your pants pocket accidentally holding the volume up button for you

 

[DDDamian]

It's the E12 Mont Blanc.

I've found that combo works well then. You're not going to get everything I feel the 650 has to bring the way you might with an OTL tube amp, but the X5ii/E12 combo can definitely make them sing well.

 

[El Zilcho]

Nope... I'd be charitable and say it's a built-in function for protecting your ears from your pants pocket accidentally holding the volume up button for you

​
True, I hadn't thought of that.  The volume buttons are appropriately stiff (a good thing) which should prevent this in general, but I suppose it's acts as a safeguard as well.  Like I said, it's something I'll get used to. 
 
Thanks for the quick reply.  Enjoying the X5ii so far.  Listening to some Foreigner right now.

 

[Rob49]

@Rob49, how are the DSP / sound effects settings on your ZX2 set? There's quite the set of them--ClearAudio+, Clear Bass, DSEE HX, Dynamic Normalizer, Equaliser (5 band), Surround Sound--and it may not be obvious at first glance whether all of them have been turned off--not that I'm the sort to advocate to "turn everything off" for "pure music", but unfortunately it's the only way for an apples-to-apples comparison between the ZX2 and the FiiO. On the other hand, it would be interesting to note whether any of the audio effects take effect when playing DSD files, because if they do, that suggests that the ZX2 may not be sending DSD directly to its DAC, as we are doing...

Hello Joe, it's the F886 ( I wanted to buy the ZX2, still would like it, but for less expense opted for the X5ii ) I tried all the setting's, & I find them gimmicky. I don't like them. I listen without any.
I haven't tried out the DAC yet, but will do so later this evening.

 

[Brooko]

Thanks Brooko. I've downloaded and listened to the three songs and frankly, I'm thinking these are a showcase for why direct stream DSD recording and playback doesn't work in many cases--I'm hearing obvious boominess in the bass and obvious lack of high end sparkle in my reference system. I'd guess these were created by the recording environment and left uncorrected in the direct DSD recording. With the guidance of some real-time spectral analysis I made two simple parametric EQ adjustments, one a -6dB adjustment at a bit below 200Hz and another a +6dB high shelf at above around 5kHz, and it all sounds so much better, much more in line with other audiophile recordings I've sourced. Of course none of this would have been possible without on-the-fly conversion to PCM for my audio workstation to function...

Of course our players have the capability to complete the direct DSD chain and some FiiO staff might even find alot of use for it--I'm not one of them though...

 
Don't worry - I'm with you on the DSD.  I bought the Quiles & Cloud full album - but in 24/96, then transcoded it to both redbook (X5ii / home system) and aac256 (other DAPs) so that it was consistent with the rest of my library, and also efficient on space. It all sounds the same to me.
 
And that's where your other comment on the quality was both insightful, and raises an interesting discussion topic.
 
Taking our own chain out of the equation - what I see a lot of audiophiles asking for is as close to the live performance as possible (room acoustics and everything).  That is what the direct DSD recording I uploaded gave you. Then there is the other end of the equation - guys like you and Jazz who want to tweak so it is closer to your idea of what reference should sound like.
 
Both sides are correct for their own preferences.
 
You'll notice in my Bio (on every review) that I state:

 I'm a 48 year old music lover.  I don't say audiophile – I just love my music.

The funny thing about the Q&C album - I don't notice the minute differences when I'm listening to it.  I just enjoy the actual music.  And my measure on how good an album is usually coincides with how much time escapes (without me noticing it) when I'm listening.  I believe the term is "getting lost in the music".
 
The thing is - there is no right or wrong.  Only preference.

 

[JaZZ]

  Meaning the deviation is around 0.01-0.02dB - that's pretty tough for these ears...

 
I think it's too little a deviation for my ears as well. On the other hand the sonic differences between X5 and X5 II must be the result of something, and the frequency-response characteristics actually seem to reflect pretty well what I hear, just extremely reduced in scale. Maybe mere coincidence.
 
With Brooko's uploaded songs I couldn't detect a clear difference between the DSD tracks and the conversions to Flac (176.4 kHz), in the configuration X5 II – Silver Dragon – HE1000. The same with other hi-res recordings (free downloads from 2L) available in PCM and DFF. So if the X5 II's DAC is good enough to handle PCM, I generally don't see any advantage from DSD for my needs. The rising popularity of the DSD format combined with its lack of editability (I agree with Joe Bloggs) may even initiate a bad kind of backlash to the loudness war. Well, maybe just for explicitly audiophile recordings if we're lucky.

 

[Brooko]

It's beyond me too Jazz
 
I'd buy DSD if the quality of the master was better than anything else available - but ultimately I'm still going to transcode everything down to redbook for actual listening.

 

[JaZZ]

  It's beyond me too Jazz
 
I'd buy DSD if the quality of the master was better than anything else available - but ultimately I'm still going to transcode everything down to redbook for actual listening.

 
44.1 kHz/16 bit (plus a few 48 kHz tracks) is all I have on my FiiO players, too, which also serve as the heart of my home system. The EQ function is more important to me than higher resolution, to which I absolutely concede some sonic advantage. But the Hugo sounds excellent even with the redbook format.

 

[x RELIC x]

Regarding DSD, this blog should be read by everyone who thinks it's a better format (relatively short without too much tech talk). If you are going to take the time and effort to seek out DSD or convert your library to DSD you should, at minimum, understand why and what benefit you will be getting, if any at all.

http://www.mojo-audio.com/blog/dsd-vs-pcm-myth-vs-truth/

DSD was essentially introduced as a cheap way for Sony to archive their music library. Marketing caught wind of it and upsold the 'benefits' to consumers and SACD was born - which there really are no benefits except for a cheaper and less expensive way to approximate true audio fidelity using cheap Delta-Sigma DAC chips. At the expense of quality we are forever caught up in a marketing game of high numbers that actually is hurting the fidelity of our music. Similar to what has been happening with the dynamic range loudness wars.

In the end DSD doesn't actually provide more detail than high res PCM recordings. From the blog............

"Though you can’t make a direct comparison between the resolution of DSD and PCM, various experts have tried. One estimate is that 1-bit 2.8224 MHz DSD has similar resolution to a 20-bit 96 KHz PCM. Another estimate is that 1-bit 2.8224 MHz DSD is equal to 20-bit 141.12 KHz PCM or 24-bit 117.6 KHz PCM.

In other words, DSD64, or SACD, has higher resolution than a 16-bit 44.1 KHz Red Book CD, roughly the same resolution as 24-bit 96 KHz PCM recording, and not as much resolution as a 24-bit 192 KHz PCM recording."

The big issue I have with DSD is that to clean up the noise you need to add noise shaping algorithms and to me it just kills the life of the music. What I hear from DSD is digital, plastic, and lifeless. Not only that, but in direct tests I have done the audible difference is basically non-existent except for noted above. I dare say the differences that may exist are for the worse. I admit, I initially fell for the marketing trap but over time became aware of the 'how and why' of DSD because something just sounded off to me.

"Of course DSD64 is another story: above 25 KHz the quantization noise rises sharply, requiring far more sophisticated filters and/or noise-shaping algorithms. When you filter the output of DSD64 with a simple low-pass filter, the result is distorted phase/time and some rather nasty artifacts in the audible range. The solution is noise-shaping algorithms that move the noise to less audible frequencies and/or higher sampling rates. This is why DSD128 (Double-Rate DSD) and the other higher-sample-rate DSD formats came into being. This is also why advanced player software, such as JRiver, offers Double-Rate DSD output."

Everything about DSD to me screams compromise. PCM is fine for me and I'd rather not occupy my precious storage space with a format that, in my opinion, is inferior, and nothing more than marketing.

As always, this is my perspective on the formats, but the facts are there. They back up what I hear and if you read the link provided they may back up your experiences as well. BUT at the end of the day if you just love DSD and love what you hear from it who am I to say anyone is wrong. Just enjoy what floats your boat.

I don't want this thread turning in to a DSD vs PCM battle. We should keep on topic but there has been so much said about DSD quality with the X5ii I thought it appropriate to post this.

 

[Dobrescu George]

This was very insightful. Thanks for sharing. 
 
In my tests, I barely was able to hear any difference between PCM and DSD, but given that DSD means a big no to any kind of Digital signal Processing, this directly means that DSD is inferior to PCM. I need to use at least EQ DSP, with most of my headphones/IEMs, and I think that I would still use a good deal of EQ regardless of headphone used, just because by design headphones are not perfect. 
 
Now, about data stored in DSD, the concept is simple, and the noise cannot be filtered out in totality. Theoretically, if you were to convert a DSD file with a very complicated algorithm, time consuming and strong processing, using a dsd256 and above, you could theoretically avoid all noise, but it is a long shot, and it is not a given that it works. [This was in theory] 
 
[In practice] I could not tell a difference in how dsd sounds, but I could very well tell a difference in how much DSD takes in a microsd, compared to my redbook FLACs, to which the DSD file was compared. Maybe I cannot pay enough attention, who knows?