[Duncan]

Noisy isn't exactly the word I would use, but it isn't Inky black with super sensitive IEMs..

That can only be picked up when there is no music and no ambient noise around you, in my experience it isn't intrusive.

 

[Dobrescu George]

Huh, I actually have not noticed this to be honest, but then again, I listen loud and rarely notice hiss

IE8 was one heck of a sensitive IEM to hiss, but I haven't used in a while, my girl took it and I haven't seen it back since

I agree, the 2.5mm isn't quite inky black, so there is something, but I can't really notice it in practice, some really quiet listeners might be able to, but if I blast metal and headbang on my music...

Great job on noticing it though

Hope it can be fixed eventually

 

[earfonia]

Initially I hoped that it is only my AM3A unit that has this issue. But once I compared with the 2nd unit at the shop, and got the same result, I'm quite surprised that the noise floor level of the Q5 2.5mm output is audibly higher than:
1. Q5 3.5mm unbalanced output
2. Onkyo DP-X1 2.5mm balanced output

To my ears, the Q5 3.5mm output SNR is around 85 dBA or higher at 50mV rms output level, which is excellent. I haven't measured, just my estimation. While the 2.5mm output, in my estimation is 80 dBA SNR or lower, at 50mV rms output level, which is not very good for a flagship product. I have to make 2.5mm balanced measurement cable for proper measurement. Don't have time for cable DIY at the moment, hopefully soon I have time to make one for proper measurement using my QuantAsylum QA401.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Initially I hoped that it is only my AM3A unit that has this issue. But once I compared with the 2nd unit at the shop, and got the same result, I'm quite surprised that the noise floor level of the Q5 2.5mm output is audibly higher than:
1. Q5 3.5mm unbalanced output
2. Onkyo DP-X1 2.5mm balanced output

To my ears, the Q5 3.5mm output SNR is around 85 dBA or higher at 50mV rms output level, which is excellent. I haven't measured, just my estimation. While the 2.5mm output, in my estimation is 80 dBA SNR or lower, at 50mV rms output level, which is not very good for a flagship product. I have to make 2.5mm balanced measurement cable for proper measurement. Don't have time for cable DIY at the moment, hopefully soon I have time to make one for proper measurement using my QuantAsylum QA401.

Deleted: I'm just babbling now. Very tired and should sleep and post when I'm awake LOL.

 

[earfonia]

Just seems odd in that I don't at all hear the noise. I'm wondering if while measureable it has no practical significance when actually listening at any modest or louder volume? It doesn't seem to be problematic, at least in my experience. I will go back and forth between the two outputs and listen for any audible noise artifacts, but I will be surprised if there are any.

While I'm all for things measuring well, if in the end they have no audible impact I personally don't really worry much. Like with drug testing. Sometimes a new drug can show an effect that can be measured, but in terms of practical effect, it is insignificant. Might this be the same type of situation? I would be curious to know if while playing music via the AM3A balanced output people are hearing any noise.

I didn't have the intention to measure it. The 2.5mm hissing noise started to irritate me on the 2nd day after I got it. That's why I did the test to confirm what I hear. Most likely it is because of the high sensitivity of the IEM. I guess any IEM with sensitivity 115 dB/mW or higher could easily hear the hissing noise. The 1964 V3 is 119 dB/mW. Check the sensitivity of your IEM. Most likely anything below 115 dB/mW won't have problem with the noise floor of the balanced output. The balanced output is relatively low noise for my DUNU DK-3001 and AK T8iE Mk2. Although it is still audibly at quiet places.

 

[Sonic Defender]

I didn't have the intention to measure it. The 2.5mm hissing noise started to irritate me on the 2nd day after I got it. That's why I did the test to confirm what I hear. Most likely it is because of the high sensitivity of the IEM. I guess any IEM with sensitivity 115 dB/mW or higher could easily hear the hissing noise. The 1964 V3 is 119 dB/mW. Check the sensitivity of your IEM. Most likely anything below 115 dB/mW won't have problem with the noise floor of the balanced output. The balanced output is relatively low noise for my DUNU DK-3001 and AK T8iE Mk2. Although it is still audibly at quiet places.

Yes, that is true. So does such a sensitive IEM benefit from the extra power of the balanced output? And I'm not asking in a challenging way, I just have no real experience with IEMs.

 

[bahamot]

With Ibasso IT01, I can pick up the noise on the balance out. Especially if using Bluetooth.

 

[Duncan]

SE M5 has a sensitivity of 99db/mw which is maybe louder than other products you have but it isn't shout it from the rooftop loud...

Add in distance away from the ear compared to an IEM, and I'd call you Batman if you said you could hear anything with them...

To be fair to FiiO, 119db/mw is right on absolute top end of what is practical, you have less than 1mw of scale to make you deaf... Definitely wouldn't need to go to far on the volume dial there!

 

[earfonia]

Yes, that is true. So does such a sensitive IEM benefit from the extra power of the balanced output? And I'm not asking in a challenging way, I just have no real experience with IEMs.

Most IEMs require less than 1mW to few mW at most. So power is not an issue for most IEMs. I'm not a balanced output fanatic, i mostly use unbalanced daily. Theoretically balanced output increases slew rate of the amp and some said reduces even harmonic distortion. To me the difference is most of the time just very small differences in sound that in my opinion not significant. Noise floor is basic criteria. I expect at least both outputs to be low noise. The 3.5mm output is excellent in that respect, and the 2.5mm is not.

 

[earfonia]

SE M5 has a sensitivity of 99db/mw which is maybe louder than other products you have but it isn't shout it from the rooftop loud...

Add in distance away from the ear compared to an IEM, and I'd call you Batman if you said you could hear anything with them...

To be fair to FiiO, 119db/mw is right on absolute top end of what is practical, you have less than 1mw of scale to make you deaf... Definitely wouldn't need to go to far on the volume dial there!

In that case we should be complaining to 1964 Audio for making such high sensitivity IEM.

 

[Brooko]

To be fair to FiiO - the balanced out isn't designed for IEMs. It outputs far too much voltage and overall power. Its designed for harder to drive full sized headphones. If you wanted to drive extremely sensitive IEMs - the original AM1 is all you'll ever need. Dead neutral, extremely low noise floor.

The right tool for the right job

 

[Currawong]

've tried the Andromedas from the 2.5mm output. There's definitely a bit of hiss, but not enough to bother me.

I felt that the Q5 was a bit fatiguing to listen with at first, so I left it playing music for a few days. I don't know for certain if anything changed. More so I think switching from the standard sharp filter to a slow roll-off helped the most, even if you do possibly lose a bit of precision from the sound. The other thing that works is using DSD up-sampling from Onkyo HF Player. Now I'm testing the amp modules against the Continental V5 with Utopias. The CV5 produces a slightly fuller sound and when I tried it with the X7II I felt it got more from it than the AM5 module I usually listen with, since I don't need the balanced output.

 

[earfonia]

To be fair to FiiO - the balanced out isn't designed for IEMs. It outputs far too much voltage and overall power. Its designed for harder to drive full sized headphones. If you wanted to drive extremely sensitive IEMs - the original AM1 is all you'll ever need. Dead neutral, extremely low noise floor.

The right tool for the right job

If that is the case, then it is fine. I was expecting similar SNR between the unbalanced and balanced output, and surprised by the difference. Initially i thought my amp module got issue, or probably batch issue. But if Fiio can confirm that balanced output has lower SNR than the unbalanced output, case close.

 

[Brooko]

If that is the case, then it is fine. I was expecting similar SNR between the unbalanced and balanced output, and surprised by the difference. Initially i thought my amp module got issue, or probably batch issue. But if Fiio can confirm that balanced output has lower SNR than the unbalanced output, case close.

If you look at their comparative measurements, they were done with a 32 ohm load (and I'm going to assume it was either their F9 or F9 Pro (106 dB mW). Under those loads, the SNR measures exactly the same 115 dB (a weighted). I don't think FiiO would have envisaged too many people using ultra sensitive low impedance monitors. And under those circumstances, why would you use balanced output anyway .....

 

[earfonia]

If you look at their comparative measurements, they were done with a 32 ohm load (and I'm going to assume it was either their F9 or F9 Pro (106 dB mW). Under those loads, the SNR measures exactly the same 115 dB (a weighted). I don't think FiiO would have envisaged too many people using ultra sensitive low impedance monitors. And under those circumstances, why would you use balanced output anyway .....

Obvious reason why I want to use the balanced output is because I've bought that feature with my hard earn money
Balanced output is not only about more power, but the main features for balanced output is improvement in slew rate and crosstalk.

I've done many headphone amp measurement, and I can assure you that there is no way those headphone outputs will reach 115 dBA SNR at IEMs playing level. The advertised 115 dBA SNR is probably dynamic range, SNR measurement at their maximum output level. I think It is possible to reach 115 dBA SNR at their max output level, but not at IEM playing level that generally less than 500 mV rms. At least not with the audible hissing noise that I heard.

Please understand, I've been Fiio supporters for many years, having many Fiio products. I'm not trying to make Q5 looks bad. I've bought Q5 because I like the sound quality and features. I just trying to report what I think is probably a flaw or error in the amplifier module. From the advertised specs it gives me the impressions that the unbalanced output and the balanced output would have roughly the same level of SNR. And I was surprised that it is not the case with my Q5, where the 3.5mm output has excellent high SNR, but the 2.5mm SNR is not as good as the 3.5mm output. That's what I'm trying to point out here. Something that probably need improvement. So you guys don't have to question me how and why I'm using the 2.5mm output. That's not the point.