[miceblue]

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True, the frequency response is fairly flat, but the iPhone's amp still has distortion, which does add some sort of colouration (frequency response isn't the whole story).
With your logic, are you saying that everyone who has a FiiO L3 or L9, or similar LOD connectors just wasted their money on a cable that has doesn't do anything beneficial?

 
If you'd read Uncle Erik's response again, he basically just said what I said... in a different way: you could still overload the second amp. Or in other word, if the second amp is not able to cope with the level of the first amp, then it could still distort. But if the second amp can cope with the first amp's level, then it should be fine. And... we're talking about an iPhone here. iPhone doesn't have the most powerful amp section, so it most likely won't be able to deliver that much power. If in doubt, you can just use the volume control to drop the volume on the iPhone.
 
You'd be right, though, if we were talking about double-amping with something like, say... an O2 as the first amp and the E12 as the second amp, and the O2's volume pot was pushed to max on high gain. I admit double-amping is bad in some cases, but it's not bad in all cases.
 
And no, I'm not saying that they wasted their money. A direct line-out (LOD stands for Line-Out Dock in case you haven't realized) is still better most of the time, as it's less likely to overload the second amp, and you don't have to fiddle with the volume control on the device.

Hm, okay I'll trust what you're saying. I do notice a difference in sound between the double-amping and single amping though, particularly with the soundstage and instrument separation.

 

[Bill-P]

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Hm, okay I'll trust what you're saying. I do notice a difference in sound between the double-amping and single amping though, particularly with the soundstage and instrument separation.

 
Yeah. I don't doubt that.
 
On the iPod Touch 4 and iPhone 5, line-out actually means using a completely different DAC, so... it's very likely (I'd say 100%) to sound different.
 
On older devices, line-out most likely goes through a different circuit that bypasses the amp, so minor differences in the signal path may account for what you are hearing (more soundstage, better instrument separation).
 
It also helps that you have a JDS Labs C5. I know from experience that the C421 is a very good and clean amp, and the C5 can only be better. 

 

[LeDave]

Thanks for the help you guys. I am comtemplating whether I should wait for the release of the e12 or buy the e11 right away and upgrade later on down the road. The price of this e12 is estimated to be 130 right? That's over twice the e11. So these are the items I am going to get and maybe get it or wait for the e12. Ignore the name on there, that's my sister's name.
Permalink: http://amzn.com/w/1D1OTUO5RN1I2

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Thanks for the help you guys. I am comtemplating whether I should wait for the release of the e12 or buy the e11 right away and upgrade later on down the road. The price of this e12 is estimated to be 130 right? That's over twice the e11. So these are the items I am going to get and maybe get it or wait for the e12. Ignore the name on there, that's my sister's name.
Permalink: http://amzn.com/w/1D1OTUO5RN1I2

The E12 is sold out now in the country(U.S), but yes, $130 with free shipping though.

 

[LeDave]

The E12 is sold out now in the country(U.S), but yes, $130 with free shipping though.

Ok thanks, No wonder why I can't find it anywhere via Google. It must be a pretty good product for it to sell out. Do you know when it will be back in stock? And if maybe, stable in terms of supply and demand? Thanks, Dave.

 

[bowei006]

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Ok thanks, No wonder why I can't find it anywhere via Google. It must be a pretty good product for it to sell out. Do you know when it will be back in stock? And if maybe, stable in terms of supply and demand? Thanks, Dave.

I think Micca store was the only one to receive stock during early 2013 so out of stock is easy.
 
Late March to early April IT SEEMS. 
 
FiiO just announced that they are beginning assembly of E12's for massive world wide release. 

 

[Chris J]

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Some have provided measurements, and it seems the iPhone or iPod clips out at around 1V output through the headphone jack. I don't think that's enough voltage to really cause the Fiio E12 to clip.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm
 
And did you mean the lightning to 30 pin dock adapter? I'm sure that one comes with a Wolfson DAC built in, while the iPhone has a Cirrus Logic DAC.

 
Oh no!
Not the dreaded Ken Rockwell!
I agree, 1 volt isn't much, just set the iPod volume to full and control the volume with the E12 volume control (for example).
If 1 Volt can clip the input of any headphone amp then it's junk.
 
I have no idea what differentiates any Lightning cable from any other Lightning cable...................

I'm a "not know it all" I guess.

 

[Bill-P]

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Oh no!
Not the dreaded Ken Rockwell!
I agree, 1 volt isn't much, just set the iPod volume to full and control the volume with the E12 volume control (for example).
If 1 Volt can clip the input of any headphone amp then it's junk.
I have no idea what differentiates any Lightning cable from any other Lightning cable...................

I'm a "not know it all" I guess.

 
Oh yes, it's KR!
 
To be honest, I know from the camera side that Mr. Rockwell isn't the most reliable subjective source ever, but his measurements are pretty okay, so I check back there occasionally.
 
Anyway, yeah, 1V isn't a lot. I think Apple stuck with the standard of "line-out" being max 1V for all of their iDevices... as it seems the output from the LOD cable is also equally loud (I just checked on the iPhone 4).
 
Funny thing is... I'm sure "line-out" on their MacBook is more than 1V, as headphone output on my MacBook is noticeably louder than the iPhone.
 
And I don't think you need to bother with the Lightning cable IMO. It's just another one of their marketing strategies... It doesn't transfer data "lightning faster", nor does it do anything that's drastically different from the old 30-pin connector after all. In fact, I would have preferred the 30-pin connector... because it was easier to find the bigger port on a big slab of aluminum... (iPad)

 

[Evshrug]

[quotes my experience using E12 with HE-400]
I wonder what setting the gain switch was on.

Low gain, but most often with the bass boost on (bass was stronger above the boost's range of effect too vs iPod). Crossfeed off, if you're curious about that too.

 

[Hutnicks]

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Low gain, but most often with the bass boost on (bass was stronger above the boost's range of effect too vs iPod). Crossfeed off, if you're curious about that too.

Sure am. Curious about everything. I have the e11 and like everything (including that gain switch, comes in very handy) and am looking to see if the 12 is worth the upgrade. The most annoying feature of the 11 is no playback while charging. The extra money may be worth it for that alone.
 
Don't suppose the 11 fetches very much on the used market.

 

[jiggahwhat]

I've seen several E12s go for as low as 100 in the Selling forums. I sold mine for 105.

 

[Evshrug]

I've seen several E12s go for as low as 100 in the Selling forums. I sold mine for 105.

He asked about the resell value of the E11.

 

[Chris J]

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Oh yes, it's KR!
 
To be honest, I know from the camera side that Mr. Rockwell isn't the most reliable subjective source ever, but his measurements are pretty okay, so I check back there occasionally.
 
Anyway, yeah, 1V isn't a lot. I think Apple stuck with the standard of "line-out" being max 1V for all of their iDevices... as it seems the output from the LOD cable is also equally loud (I just checked on the iPhone 4).
 
Funny thing is... I'm sure "line-out" on their MacBook is more than 1V, as headphone output on my MacBook is noticeably louder than the iPhone.
 
And I don't think you need to bother with the Lightning cable IMO. It's just another one of their marketing strategies... It doesn't transfer data "lightning faster", nor does it do anything that's drastically different from the old 30-pin connector after all. In fact, I would have preferred the 30-pin connector... because it was easier to find the bigger port on a big slab of aluminum... (iPad)

 
Hmmmm, makes me happy I have an older iPod!
Anyway,  use a digital dock which I plug into a DAC.
I've never been a big fan of the iPod headphone jack's sound.

 

[KimChee]

I dunno if this has been mentioned or not, but I asked on the Fiio facebook page if the mass produced E12 was going to have more bass boost than the small batch E12, and they said yes.  I'm very interested in the mass release E12

 

[pngwn]

I thought the revised bass boost was just shifted a bit higher than the first version, like a +6db boost to 70hz instead of 50hz or something, not increased and modified in quantity? Unless I missed a post from James a few pages ago?