[newworld666]

Again a few hours I am playing with :
-> some DSD and Hires files
-> DCA Stealth
-> FIIO 12V/3A and Ifi Ipower Elite power supplies
trying to switch between headphone mode/ enhanced headphone mode .....

I gave up using UAPP and Neutron as sound quality, with at least my DSD, is far from FIIO player in pure audio mode with the stealth (due to the use of generic Hires drivers). We will have to wait UAPP and Neutron can manage properly the M17 Hires Chip and not with a limited generic driver.
Fiio music player seems to be incompatible with Wavelet and Poweramp EQ. It's nor a big deal with DCA Stealth as this headphone, basically, doesn't need any EQ

Clearly, it's a big step between headphone mode and enhanced headphone mode.. It's not only some more volume level, but a real difference in low and ultra low frequencies which far more rich and faster with the enhanced mode (though, I didn't compare yet with my monolith THX887, but I will do it soon), at least, I never owned any DAP at this sound quality level.

What is disturbing me is that I can't do any real blind test to compare Fiio and iFi power supply, and there is no real way for fast A/B switching !!! So, my comparison between power supplies can't be reliable.
Actually, as I don't really trust totally my brain (Easy Placebo Effect in such matters) and I don't really believe the notion of "cleaning power" before any modern electronic device => so I won't pretend that for sure ifi power supply brings a significant improvement, but I, like davidmollliere upper in this thread, I really like a lot the sound coming out from the iFi ipower elite and quite more than Fiio standard 12/3A power supply.
Unfortunately, I can't recommend the iFi iPower Elite due to a lack of a reliable comparison, but, I think it's really worth to give a try to this power supply, as I feel it really sounds to be the highest level of sound quality available with M17 till now (seems to bring a significant change in low frequencies impacts which seem to sound a one more step faster and richer).

I feel pity that the enhanced mode is not available on battery mode !!! Even, if M17 battery life wouldn't exceed 4 hours in such mode.

 

[Lumithium]

I feel pity that the enhanced mode is not available on battery mode !!! Even, if M17 battery life wouldn't exceed 4 hours in such mode.

Battery life is probably not the issue, maybe the battery in M17 just doesn't output the voltage needed for the enhanced over ear mode to work.

You might need a battery array like DX300 MAX to reach those voltages. Which adds to the complexity of the device, and will drive up the cost and weight pretty significantly. You might even need a bigger chassis to work with.

 

[viffer]

@newworld666
I said it a few pages back that the Fiio app in pure mode sounds better than Uapp, neutron and Qobuz. Like you, I believe those Apps need to write and implement the code to fully support the M17.
As for power supply, my understanding is that electronic and electric equipment/appliances, are designed to pull a predetermined amount of current. I seriously doubt the M17 would sound better with a 4A power supply. It is Likely that in DC mode, the M17 doesn’t pull more than 2A, 2.5A with perhaps peaks of a little more. Of course, I could be wrong, Maybe @FiiO can shed some light in the matter.

 

[davidmolliere]

Battery life is probably not the issue, maybe the battery in M17 just doesn't output the voltage needed for the enhanced over ear mode to work.

You might need a battery array like DX300 MAX to reach those voltages. Which adds to the complexity of the device, and will drive up the cost and weight pretty significantly. You might even need a bigger chassis to work with.

Yes I don't think it's possible with batteries, even with DX300 Max if you look at the specs balanced PO.
DX300 max is rated at 2400mW at 32ohm which is already a whopping figure, with a +/- 8.4V on battery.
M17 is rated at 3000mW at 32ohm and +/- 12,45V in overhear mode on battery but also +/- 17,65V (35.3 Vp-p) on DC.
Those are probably just theoretical figures of peak that can be delivered at best, but still...

Not saying M17 sounds better than DX300 Max power is not the only factor but it sure is more powerful. DX300 Max has better SNR at 125 dB vs 120 dB and there are multiple factors coming into play. Just power wise, DC mode brings new capabilities that Max doesn't provide. Desktop mode is really twice the voltage swing of DX300 Max, or at least that's what the spec sheets suggest...

I am by any means no expert at all just curious so if someone has something to add or correct please do so.

 

[newworld666]

Till now, I couldn't manage to use a Bluetooth remote for other features then Play/Pause and Next/Previous track !
As I always have some Sony RMT-NWS20 (office/home/bag), I can't control the volume level and the Fast forward or Backward in tracks, which is a bit annoying in everyday use.


Edit : That was with Neutron player ... but with Fiio player, all features are operational assuming you have switched from volume knob to volume buttons.
Sorry for the mistake.

 

[newworld666]

@newworld666
I said it a few pages back that the Fiio app in pure mode sounds better than Uapp, neutron and Qobuz. Like you, I believe those Apps need to write and implement the code to fully support the M17.
As for power supply, my understanding is that electronic and electric equipment/appliances, are designed to pull a predetermined amount of current. I seriously doubt the M17 would sound better with a 4A power supply. It is Likely that in DC mode, the M17 doesn’t pull more than 2A, 2.5A with perhaps peaks of a little more. Of course, I could be wrong, Maybe @FiiO can shed some light in the matter.

Basically, I am almost sure you are 100% right, .... but................... this time I "feel" that I can catch some changes in sound quality with speed/depth of low frequencies impacts between the two power supply.... so, as I am not an expert, I don't know if a power supply can be faster to provide instant high current level when the device is demanding for some ?

I confirm, I don't trust my own perception, as I can't make any blind test with switching between quickly between the power supplies.

 

[audionewbi]

I have just tested the line out of M17 and compared it to the internal DAC of T+A HA200. And I have to admit that I don't hear a difference, or so negligible that I don't care. To switch between the two is a press of a button and I used a somewhat bright and quite efficient HEKse. M17 is a monster, really. It is exceptionally good for its size. I think its price is very well justified for its feature set and performance.

I loved T+A DSD 8, I believe their strength (T+A) is DSD playback. Are you able to test this using the HA-200 DSD engine as I can see you are using the HA-200 as amp in this setup.

 

[davidmolliere]

Basically, I am almost sure you are 100% right, .... but................... this time I "feel" that I can catch some changes in sound quality with speed/depth of low frequencies impacts between the two power supply.... so, as I am not an expert, I don't know if a power supply can be faster to provide instant high current level when the device is demanding for some ?
I confirm, I don't trust my own perception, as I can't make any blind test with switching between quickly between the power supplies.

Yeah for sure it doesn't deliver more than the spec'ed 3A but that's not the point of upgrading the power unit. Cleaner power for sure with the iPower Elite but also in how it delivers power when called for... this is quite obvious in Enhanced Over ear mode... I mean it's not looking for minute changes it's a big upgrade in my book. I have friends with M17 and we'll do an A/B with two M17 with stock and upgrade power unit and we'll see.

I have just tested the line out of M17 and compared it to the internal DAC of T+A HA200. And I have to admit that I don't hear a difference, or so negligible that I don't care. To switch between the two is a press of a button and I used a somewhat bright and quite efficient HEKse. M17 is a monster, really. It is exceptionally good for its size. I think its price is very well justified for its feature set and performance.

Long time since I haven't listened to that album, thanks for the reminder I love it!

 

[viffer]

Basically, I am almost sure you are 100% right, .... but................... this time I "feel" that I can catch some changes in sound quality with speed/depth of low frequencies impacts between the two power supply.... so, as I am not an expert, I don't know if a power supply can be faster to provide instant high current level when the device is demanding for some ?

I confirm, I don't trust my own perception, as I can't make any blind test with switching between quickly between the power supplies.

It is possible that the iFi power Elite maybe able to supply a more consistent current with less fluctuations. But so far, I have not been convinced that the difference would be of enough magnitude for me to justify the cost. Hopefully @FiiO can shed some light to get us out of doubt.
In any case, and even in battery mode, this M17 is a formidable DAP. Once they iron out the few wrinkles it has with the next firmware update, and at least for me, it will be the closes thing to a perfect portable system I’ve ever had.

 

[davidmolliere]

Well to each his own, but I trust my ears and I understand how one would be doubtful I really tried this as an experiment not even half convinced there would be a significant difference and I was so wrong.. I was so so surprised by the result no matter what explanations there might be. That's why I tried the even crazier experience of getting @iFi audio Supanova power cable on top.... not sure if @FiiO has tested power unit or cable upgrades...

I received the it, plugged it and... well that's another big leap forward in terms of SQ! I know most won't believe it... I wouldn't either because I had not tried my self I just wouldn't and even laugh if off. But I am curious guy by nature so I tried because I didn't believe for the power unit and then discussed with friends with long standing experience in sedentary setups that told me to try it (with return policy no much of a risk...).

Well call me a believer. I mean it's a much bigger step up than any TOTL audio cable for that matter for a fraction of the price. It's just so so surprising.
@lafeuill has gotten the iPower Elite as well and the more reasonable Nova cable he'll probably report on his findings as well.

I am hearing a significant improvement of dynamic range and even blacker background.. wether you believe it or not, I sure enjoy it a lot and consider this money well spent allowing the M17 to shine to its full potential.

 

[The French]

I have just tested the line out of M17 and compared it to the internal DAC of T+A HA200. And I have to admit that I don't hear a difference, or so negligible that I don't care. To switch between the two is a press of a button and I used a somewhat bright and quite efficient HEKse. M17 is a monster, really. It is exceptionally good for its size. I think its price is very well justified for its feature set and performance.

Your T+A HA200 looks amazing !

 

[immortalsoul]

Well to each his own, but I trust my ears and I understand how one would be doubtful I really tried this as an experiment not even half convinced there would be a significant difference and I was so wrong.. I was so so surprised by the result no matter what explanations there might be. That's why I tried the even crazier experience of getting @iFi audio Supanova power cable on top.... not sure if @FiiO has tested power unit or cable upgrades...



I received the it, plugged it and... well that's another big leap forward in terms of SQ! I know most won't believe it... I wouldn't either because I had not tried my self I just wouldn't and even laugh if off. But I am curious guy by nature so I tried because I didn't believe for the power unit and then discussed with friends with long standing experience in sedentary setups that told me to try it (with return policy no much of a risk...).

Well call me a believer. I mean it's a much bigger step up than any TOTL audio cable for that matter for a fraction of the price. It's just so so surprising.
@lafeuill has gotten the iPower Elite as well and the more reasonable Nova cable he'll probably report on his findings as well.

I am hearing a significant improvement of dynamic range and even blacker background.. wether you believe it or not, I sure enjoy it a lot and consider this money well spent allowing the M17 to shine to its full potential.

Do you need to use both ifi xpower elite and ifi audio supernova, or just ifi audio supernova? I noticed in your picture that you use both but I was wondering if just the Supernova would do the trick. Thanks

 

[Nostoi]

Well to each his own, but I trust my ears and I understand how one would be doubtful I really tried this as an experiment not even half convinced there would be a significant difference and I was so wrong.. I was so so surprised by the result no matter what explanations there might be. That's why I tried the even crazier experience of getting @iFi audio Supanova power cable on top.... not sure if @FiiO has tested power unit or cable upgrades...



I received the it, plugged it and... well that's another big leap forward in terms of SQ! I know most won't believe it... I wouldn't either because I had not tried my self I just wouldn't and even laugh if off. But I am curious guy by nature so I tried because I didn't believe for the power unit and then discussed with friends with long standing experience in sedentary setups that told me to try it (with return policy no much of a risk...).

Well call me a believer. I mean it's a much bigger step up than any TOTL audio cable for that matter for a fraction of the price. It's just so so surprising.
@lafeuill has gotten the iPower Elite as well and the more reasonable Nova cable he'll probably report on his findings as well.

I am hearing a significant improvement of dynamic range and even blacker background.. wether you believe it or not, I sure enjoy it a lot and consider this money well spent allowing the M17 to shine to its full potential.

Even blacker background? Sounds as black as a black hole. None more black? I gotta try the M17.

 

[davidmolliere]

Do you need to use both ifi xpower elite and ifi audio supernova, or just ifi audio supernova? I noticed in your picture that you use both but I was wondering if just the Supernova would do the trick. Thanks

I'll try Supanova with the stock power unit and report, didn't think of this as I got iPower Elite before the supanova. I think if you want a more reasonable upgrade the Nova is more than enough (@lafeuill will tell), Supanova adds ANC which could matter depending on where you live (cleaner or noiser electric signals) and power surge protection but you can do this without cracking the bank.

One thing to consider is Supanova is a big chunk of a cable it takes quite a bit of room

Even blacker background? Sounds as black as a black hole. None more black? I gotta try the M17.

Well as black as battery powered if you will

 

[immortalsoul]

For those of you interested here you can find how to root the M17
https://npaudio.boards.net/thread/247/root-fiio-m17