[Jim Bobber]

Waiting for it to come to NZ, the price here actually compares well to the US which is rare!

 

[NZtechfreak]

Waiting for it to come to NZ, the price here actually compares well to the US which is rare!

Ah, another kiwi! Looks like Rapallo AV have stock already.

 

[Jim Bobber]

Ah, another kiwi! Looks like Rapallo AV have stock already.

Hey NZTechfreak,

nah, don’t think so, got my FH7’s off them last week. They thought it would be mid February that we get them here. They were going to get in contact with me!!! Think we gotta wait a bit

 

[expat852]

Hey Expat,

thanks again, BT is more of a secondary requirement, primary use will be for HD 800s’s and Fiio FH7’s. I found BT on the X7 II to be pretty poor, more of an afterthought (poor range and connection) I have a pair of the Nura phones and am also getting the Nura Loops, so BT HD codec and improved range / connection will be a bonus.

I also found Bluetooth and especially Wi-Fi on the X7 Mark II to be quite poor. The radios in the M15 are more in line with what you would expect from any current device.

I'm not sure if you have ever waited to upgrade a computer, then been pleasantly surprised with all of the improvements that a few years can bring. That's very much the case with the M15. It is dramatically improved in virtually every aspect over the X7 Mark II. If you choose to purchase I do not think you will be disappointed.

 

[Jim Bobber]

I also found Bluetooth and especially Wi-Fi on the X7 Mark II to be quite poor. The radios in the M15 are more in line with what you would expect from any current device.

I'm not sure if you have ever waited to upgrade a computer, then been pleasantly surprised with all of the improvements that a few years can bring. That's very much the case with the M15. It is dramatically improved in virtually every aspect over the X7 Mark II. If you choose to purchase I do not think you will be disappointed.

Awesome, think I will be, May need to wait another couple of weeks for it to arrive on these shores!! Appreciate the feedback !!

 

[NZtechfreak]

Hey NZTechfreak,

nah, don’t think so, got my FH7’s off them last week. They thought it would be mid February Nessie’s we get them here. They were going to get in contact with me!!! Think we gotta wait a bit

It's on their website currently, add to cart button is there in all its tempting glory...

 

[Jim Bobber]

It's on their website currently, add to cart button is there in all its tempting glory...

I think add to cart was there straight away. I enquired about the M15, they came back saying Feb, then put it on their website. Maybe they don’t show out of stock?!?!? You getting one though? Think I am, will then sell my X7 MK II!!

 

[NZtechfreak]

I think add to cart was there straight away. I enquired about the M15, they came back saying Feb, then put it on their website. Maybe they don’t show out of stock?!?!? You getting one though? Think I am, will then sell my X7 MK II!!

I may do. Currently I'd be mostly be wanting to use it with my FAD Pandora Hope VI, which isn't going to play well with the output impedances here. Will probably be looking more closely whenever I decide I want to move my closed cans up the scale. That'll give me some more time to see how things play out in terms of issues and firmware updates once this is in more hands, so that's not terrible either.

 

[TheUnknow]

DACs: Fiio switched from ESS to AKM between these two players. ESS vs. AKM are fighting words on these forums, but it is worth noting a few points: ESS announced the ES9028PRO (in the X7 Mark II) in early 2016, as a mid-tier alternative to the top tier EX9038PRO. AKM announced the AK4499EQ in early 2019, as its top tier DAC. For DACs, three-year gap (and mid vs. top tier) are in the M15's favor.

What are the main sound difference between a 2016 DAC and a top tier 2019 DAC ?

 

[cr3ativ3]

Forums are always fun because people have such strong opinions! And we all have different ears.

FWIW, this is my first FiiO product ever and I like it better than the SP1000 that I've had (borrowed from friend) for the past few weeks. He will let me borrow his SP2000 next weekend. And if I prefer the SP2000, I will get my own SP2000.

But comparing to the SP1000, after choosing the right filter, the M15 has more detail (especially texture on drums and texture on cellos/bass, which are extremely important to me) and there is a better sense of the space of the recording (particularly remarkable on Lucinda Williams, Live at Fillmore as one example, but I am consistently surprised at the sense of space and the realism of the stage I get on many recordings.). Also there is warmth in the midrange that makes the SP1000 sounds a little hollow/lean in comparison. And lastly, the M15 goes a little deeper in bass than the SP1000 while still maintaining very tight control. Conversely, there is nothing I hear in the SP1000 that I would prefer over the M15 (again, after choosing the right filter for me).

That's as a DAP. As a front-end/DAC, the differentiation is greater. The M15 gets closer to my personal reference/preference which is the PS Audio DS. And then out of this room, when I use the M15 to drive the WA8, I get a ton more detail and a much better stage than the Woo DAC implementation, but I don't have to sacrifice the warmth that Woo gets in their DAC! That is huge for me, and that's something the SP1000 cannot do for me. I want the warmth AND I want the detail and timing/rhythm in this pairing with the WA8. The M15 is fantastic for this configuration when I'm away from home.

Again, out of the box, with the balanced output issue I was having and with the bass-heavy default filter, I would clearly choose the AK. The out-of-box tuning that FiiO chose is not to my taste. But having worked around those issues, I now prefer the M15.

I look forward to seeing if the 2000 is even better. I had a wonderful experience on the train home today with the M15 and my a12t's and it's lovely that we can enjoy music so well now wherever we are in these small packages. Really cool.

Great comparison thank you , do you have to use an impedance adapter with your a12t on balance out ?

 

[Infoseeker]

What are the main sound difference between a 2016 DAC and a top tier 2019 DAC ?

Probably the inherent low noise floor potential. The THD should already be more than enough good already.

But hopefully some people actually in the sound field around us can tell us the practical effects as end users.

 

[DarginMahkum]

Jim,

The Bluetooth implementation on the M15 does look to be better, 5.0 up from 4.2 and support for LDAC and Aptx HD. However, with my Bluetooth headsets I could not tell a difference between AptX on the X7 Mark II and AptX HD on the M15. I could not try LDAC.

It's important to note that whenever you are using Bluetooth you are bypassing the player's DAC and amp and using the DAC and amp in your Bluetooth headphones. I have become a big fan of the M15 but it is power-hungry, heavy, and expensive, and its best features are only available if you are using a wire. If your primary use is Bluetooth I'm not sure the upgrade is worthwhile, but if you are using wired headphones as well then the M15 really shines. Hope this helps.

BT is a whole different issue. You can find a detailed information here in this link why aptX-HD does not bring any advantage for a BT headphone over aptX if it is (and most probably, is) using one of the cheap off-the-shelf BT chips that does the decoding _and_ digital-to-analogue conversion:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-xdsd-the-official-thread.873787/page-29#post-14210251

It can make a difference only in case the digital bit steam is jitter corrected and properly sent to a high quality DAC, rather than the BT chip internal DAC. But the BT headsets make use of the internal DAC of the BT chip and don't have any extra high quality DAC, so you will never really hear any difference.

 

[DarginMahkum]

Oh, and regarding the BT jitter issue I mentioned and is written in the link: The BT bitstream jitter correction is most probably one of the tasks of the FPGA on M15, so that if you use it in BT receive mode, the FPGA jitter corrects the digital bitstream from the BT decoder chip (CSR8675) and then directs it to the high quality DAC (the AK4499s) for analogue correction.

 

[DarginMahkum]

What are the main sound difference between a 2016 DAC and a top tier 2019 DAC ?

The difference, if any, shouldn't have anything to do with the year gap, because the main thing that would affect the sound is the DSP algorithms employed and since 2016 there hasn't been any breakthrough (at least I haven't heard) that would affect the end result substantially. Maybe if the fabrication method was improved (for example, 10 nm instead of 14 nm etc.), it can decrease the power consumption, maybe make more space for employing more advanced algorithms. But I haven't at least seen anything about it for AK4499. Both ES chips are quite advanced: For example, they support DSD1024 and 8 channels, whereas AK4499 supports max. DSD512 and 4 channels. Still, this does not give us full information about their sonic performance.

For example, both ES9028PRO and 9038PRO can be configured to run in current output mode, just like the AK4499. I have not seen the full datasheets, but as both ES chips are quite configurable which means using one of the TOTL chips in a device does not mean using it to its full potential, as one might have to disable some energy consuming blocks/algorithms in order to achieve decrease the power consumption. That also means, already at this point, even the per spec better DAC can be configured to run with a worse performance to tackle the power consumption issues, then a DAC that actually has lower per spec figures.

One last thing: Both the AK4499 and ES9028/38PRO chips are mainly for desktop usage and the raw figures that you see on their websites are when they are fully utilized. But when they are employed in a portable device, these figures are most probably not valid any more. Let me quote Andy from Cayin here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...arized-smart-dap.904153/page-19#post-14937477

Question: Can they put two ES9038PRO and 4.4 balanced ?

Answer: From circuit design point of view, Yes, we can do that, its within the physical dimension of our motherboard.

From audio performance point of view, no, we won't even consider that. The battery in N6ii don't have enough power to sustain the dual ESS9038PRO chipset probably. ESS9038Pro is a software configurable chipset, they offered different modes of operation, and some of the operation modes drain less power, but the audio performance is significantly below the premium stage where the impressive specification are recorded.

In other word, if we go for dual ESS9038pro, we can but we need to under-power the components, this won't sound better then a properly powered ESS9038Pro anyway.

 

[Sound Eq]

simply put all these companies need to go back to the drawing board and ask themselves at which point did they go into the wrong direction . And that includes AK, ibasso and Fiio.

So far besides calyx, only cayin is sticking to the roots of what is a good sound ( what a dam mistake selling it )

Most daps nowadays sound sterile, non-engaging and boring. They are chasing details and losing the musicality of sound along the way

GO learn from calyx and then ask me to pay 1400 usd, until then I will stick to my chord mojo with poly for streaming and my calyx for ultimate sound and enjoyment

Specs this and specs that and in the end a non competent sound with a high price tag, topped with hiss issues and god knows what else, thank you I am not endorsing such a product. The biggest issue and which is not acceptable at all at this price tag is that reports mention hiss issues, let alone the sound signature preferences for a moment, but for 1400 usd at least offer me a dap that is competent and works flawlessly with streaming.