[MariusAB]

Well I used Tidal HiFi Master subscription and output at 385. So maybe you don't have the Tidal HiFi subscription?

Exactly the same using. Master subscription, latest Tidal app, m11 + updated to 1.04. can't get higher thant 88.2 or at least what m11 plus shows in output. Don't know what is the reason.

 

[Triangle99]

Exactly the same using. Master subscription, latest Tidal app, m11 + updated to 1.04. can't get higher thant 88.2 or at least what m11 plus shows in output. Don't know what is the reason.

It will depend on the tracks you are listening to - very few unfold eight times. Most unfold 2x to 88. Search up Jan Gunnar Hoff 'Polarity- an Acoustic Jazz Project'. That plays unfolded to 385 or whatever for me on the M11 +.

 

[MariusAB]

It will depend on the tracks you are listening to - very few unfold eight times. Most unfold 2x to 88. Search up Jan Gunnar Hoff 'Polarity- an Acoustic Jazz Project'. That plays unfolded to 385 or whatever for me on the M11 +

You are right. With this exact track i am seeing first time 352.8k in output. So seems everything ok. I only can't understand why it is with the same track master i see different output with my daps. With ibasso dx160 it is 176,4k with m11 + 88.2k. Different unfolding levels? Where with same master m11+ makes 96k, ibasso 192 and where m11+88,2 ibasso 176,4 so double. I know this is only numbers not actual thing you can hear but just interesting.

 

[rlw6534]

You are right. With this exact track i am seeing first time 352.8k in output. So seems everything ok. I only can't understand why it is with the same track master i see different output with my daps. With ibasso dx160 it is 176,4k with m11 + 88.2k. Different unfolding levels? Where with same master m11+ makes 96k, ibasso 192 and where m11+88,2 ibasso 176,4 so double. I know this is only numbers not actual thing you can hear but just interesting.

MQA can be confusing and the DAP manufacturers are inconsistent in how the bitrates are displayed.

1) All MQA tracks are in a 44.1 or 48 kHz container regardless of the source (Master) bitrate.
2) Core unfolding (which can be done in software or hardware) expands the tracks to 88.1 or 96 kHz. The device does not need to be MQA compatable.
3) MQA compatable renderers/decoders then further expand to the maximum capability of the DAC chip which can be as high as 16X (768 kHz) with current DACs.
4) Some DAPs (Fiio M11 Pro, etc) display the bitrate of the Master source in the status bar, not the fully unfolded rate.
5) Some DAPS (Hiby R6, Shanling M3x, etc) display the fully unfolded bitrate in the status bar, rather than the Master rate.

 

[Triangle99]

You are right. With this exact track i am seeing first time 352.8k in output. So seems everything ok. I only can't understand why it is with the same track master i see different output with my daps. With ibasso dx160 it is 176,4k with m11 + 88.2k. Different unfolding levels? Where with same master m11+ makes 96k, ibasso 192 and where m11+88,2 ibasso 176,4 so double. I know this is only numbers not actual thing you can hear but just interesting.

I don't really know anything about the iBasso but perhaps it up-samples? I'm not an expert by any stretch so am guessing. You could download some verified MQA tracks to conduct tests between two devices - knowing what the original bit rate is helps to validate the DAP's output.

http://www.2l.no/hires/

Files are at the link above

 

[Triangle99]

I don't really know anything about the iBasso but perhaps it up-samples? I'm not an expert by any stretch so am guessing. You could download some verified MQA tracks to conduct tests between two devices - knowing what the original bit rate is helps to validate the DAP's output.

http://www.2l.no/hires/

Files are at the link above

And, yes, as above, some licensing issues with MQA impact on the shown bitrate according to your DAP and decisions taken by the manufacturer ie. fully unfolded vs master rate.

 

[MariusAB]

MQA can be confusing and the DAP manufacturers are inconsistent in how the bitrates are displayed.

1) All MQA tracks are in a 44.1 or 48 kHz container regardless of the source (Master) bitrate.
2) Core unfolding (which can be done in software or hardware) expands the tracks to 88.1 or 96 kHz. The device does not need to be MQA compatable.
3) MQA compatable renderers/decoders then further expand to the maximum capability of the DAC chip which can be as high as 16X (768 kHz) with current DACs.
4) Some DAPs (Fiio M11 Pro, etc) display the bitrate of the Master source in the status bar, not the fully unfolded rate.
5) Some DAPS (Hiby R6, Shanling M3x, etc) display the fully unfolded bitrate in the status bar, rather than the Master rate.

Thanks, this explains something but also makes me think that m11 + on status bar shows not master source bitrate but software core level unfolded bitrate that tidal unfolds to 88,1k and 96k. And full bitrate that dap hardware is supossed to further unfold it doesn't show. And ibasso shows at this point more correct info in tidal app. But more interesting when it is not showing how to know if it is unfolded correctly. But i quess it was discussed and these questions was already answered by fio or other mqa masters

 

[MariusAB]

I don't really know anything about the iBasso but perhaps it up-samples? I'm not an expert by any stretch so am guessing. You could download some verified MQA tracks to conduct tests between two devices - knowing what the original bit rate is helps to validate the DAP's output.

http://www.2l.no/hires/

Files are at the link above

Thanks i will try this. Very interesting to experiment with hardware at free time for own pleasure

 

[rlw6534]

Thanks, this explains something but also makes me think that m11 + on status bar shows not master source bitrate but software core level unfolded bitrate that tidal unfolds to 88,1k and 96k. And full bitrate that dap hardware is supossed to further unfold it doesn't show. And ibasso shows at this point more correct info in tidal app. But more interesting when it is not showing how to know if it is unfolded correctly. But i quess it was discussed and these questions was already answered by fio or other mqa masters

I suspect the Tidal app is not correctly identifying the MQA compatibility of the M11 Plus and is only performing the software unfold. Maybe because the M11 Plus is a new device and the Tidal app needs updating.

 

[14christ]

I suspect the Tidal app is not correctly identifying the MQA compatibility of the M11 Plus and is only performing the software unfold. Maybe because the M11 Plus is a new device and the Tidal app needs updating.

Maybe. On my Hiby r5s I see the fully unfolded bitrate. If it's a 44.1khz then it unfolds to 354khz and if it's 48khz then it's 385khz both being 32bit.

 

[MariusAB]

I suspect the Tidal app is not correctly identifying the MQA compatibility of the M11 Plus and is only performing the software unfold. Maybe because the M11 Plus is a new device and the Tidal app needs updating.

Then it is a question of future updates and work of fiio team or combined with tidal to solve such things. I quess it is really possible to solve this. Will see.. if i had m11 i could check if this is working here then it could say it was solved and the same will be with m11+. Other than this tidal works more than perfect with this dap. And for example ibasso dx160 not working fully with latest versions of tidal , hi fi quality song isn't playing and don't think it will be solved any day so fiio is not comparable here and as a new dap i believe will be healed from such problems that it still has.

 

[Triangle99]

I suspect the Tidal app is not correctly identifying the MQA compatibility of the M11 Plus and is only performing the software unfold. Maybe because the M11 Plus is a new device and the Tidal app needs updating.

If it is unfolding some tracks 8x, like the ones I pointed to above, then it must be using the hardware MQA unfold correctly, yes?

 

[14christ]

If it is unfolding some tracks 8x, like the ones I pointed to above, then it must be using the hardware MQA unfold correctly, yes?

Yes. The song has got to be MQA or Master for it to unfold. If it doesn't have the "M" logo next to the song then it's not MQA.

 

[rlw6534]

If it is unfolding some tracks 8x, like the ones I pointed to above, then it must be using the hardware MQA unfold correctly, yes?

Yes, depending on the app. I believe this issue is specific to the Tidal app, not the M11+ in general. I understood that he was seeing only 88.2 or 96 kHz specifically using the Tidal app. I'm fairly sure that local files played through the Fiio app would work correctly and fully unfold.

 

[14christ]

Yes, depending on the app. I believe this issue is specific to the Tidal app, not the M11+ in general. I understood that he was seeing only 88.2 or 96 kHz specifically using the Tidal app. I'm fairly sure that local files played through the Fiio app would work correctly and fully unfold.

Tidal unfolds completely fine on my Hiby so we know it's not Tidal. Look at top 352.8K and this is a 16/44.1 song. On the 24/48 songs they unfold to 385K.