Most people that buy tech products such as a DAC have the ability to recognize they are using USB connection (and thus the DAC on the E17K).
What amp did you A/B with the E17K to seperate out the E17Ks amp from the equation?
Good point, but for some reason i had the impression that some of these guys in here were possibly novices or newbies to the scene, so i was just trying to be helpful, and i thought i would emphasize this point just to be clear.
As far as the amping, i don't fully understand the exact context of your question. Nonetheless, as you would know, each Amp will perform differently and display different characteristics, right? So, i think it's a matter of just comparing the different amps and doing an A/B test between them all, but then that also involves the DAC from the source player, so there's too many variables involved to give a straight answer to your question.
1: Playing the music straight from my Android smartphone... slightly above average and a bit disparate with treble harshness .
2: Playing the music straight from my Android smartphone and connected to the FiiO E12 Mont Blanc... slightly better, but still a bit messy.
3: Playing the music from the stereo line-out on my computer... very good, but not quite in audiophile territory.
4: Playing the music straight from my iPod nano 7th generation, phenomenal and in audiophile territory.
5: Playing the music straight from my iPod nano 7th generation (through the iPod's DAC/Amp) and into the line-in on the E17K... excellent, but just short of audiophile territory.
5: Playing the music from the computer utilizing only the E17K DAC and Amp... overly warm, and slightly lacking air and treble clarity in the top-end !
leobigfield asked: "Also, what headphones/IEMs do you use with the E17K?"
Yamaha MT220! Extremely accurate monitoring headphones, and every review from every pro concurs right across the board. Not one pro reviewer has a bad thing to say about them, quite the contrary, the praise for them is unanimous; quite an achievement from Yamaha, and even hardcore hold-outs are on the bandwagon now.
I have a confession to make. the review from bowei006' of the E17K was bang-on! He got it totally right, every aspect of his review was correct. Obviously he also has 'accurate' headphones.
I got my initial impressions wrong yesterday, i had done so much listening yesterday when doing comparisons that my ears got fatigued and i lost perspective.
So now i must say, this modern day phenomena of companies choosing DACs that render warm sound is quite disappointing, and why do i say this? Because for starters, i think these DAC makers and DAP manufacturers are being assumptious, and imposing their own ideals as a compensatory measure, it may be well-intentioned, but IMO it's misguided.
It is assumptious in the sense they appear to be assuming that everyone is listening to MP3 and AAC files that have had the guts ripped out of them, and consequently sound quite sterile, cold and harsh as a result, and also they must be thinking that digital music today is seen as being cold.
However, i must say that this is faulty thinking on the part of the DAC makers and DAP manufacturers. The warmth in these DACs is 'too much', and the extra warmth actually becomes sickening, i find it very hard to listen to music that has been embeud with artificial warmth and i really can't stand it, it is quite displeasing, i find it becomes intolerable to me, and my ears don't like it at all.
Firstly, it alters the original source material, and therefore by default such DAC attributes deviate from the music producers actual intentions for the finished tone of the song. Many songs are delicately mixed and mastered for a very exacting result, even digital music still has its own sound signature that the producer and mastering engineer have already settled on, whether the end-result might be deemed cold or not is not the point, because the end-result is exactly the tonal and frequency balance that the producer and mastering engineer settled on, and therefore it shouldn't be changed one iota. Digital music might be more bland than 60s and 70s and 80s music, but that doesn't mean it is horrible, it is just different, but it still sounds nice. There is no need to then go and make a digital song 'artificially' warm, because it just sounds wrong, wrong, wrong.
Secondly, songs from the 60s, 70s and 80s are already warm sounding to a very nice degree, due to the harmonic artifacts of using analog gear, but also due to tape saturation, but the end-result of music from that era is marvelous, but to then embellish a naturally warm-sounding song with even more artificial warmth is just disastrous. If we see that these warm DACs are ruining so-called cold digital music, then how much more the music that is already warm? This is a disastrous state of affairs, and that's exactly my mental and emotional reaction when listening to music decoded by these warm DACs, feel me? I say again, i find it intolerable and quite sickening, truly, not as a reaction, but my ears don't like it in the least.
The warmth from the E17K i find totally unacceptable, this is a warm sounding DAC/AMP for sure, and it's terrible! I can't listen to it, i want to enjoy it, but my senses are cringing and their is a frown on my face despite the fact i want to accept it, but i can't, my ears don't like it.
So, with the well-known flaws of the FiiO E11 and E12 and now the E17K, IMO FiiO needs to go back to the drawing board and start again. Neutrality should be the order of the day, fidelity to the original source material, and accurate conversion of the signal.
Also the X1 is a disaster, and the X3 is not much better, in fact, it's worse than the X1, and the X5 has some known flaws in its overall rendering capability, so where does that leave me with FiiO, well i've come to the conclusion that i wont be buying their products again until they change their game-plan.
FiiO, if you're listening, go for DACs that are known to have a 'neutral' sound, this is the only way to go.
Is there any good news to all of this? Well yes, but not what you might expect. I've done the test right now with fresh ears, direct A/B testing, and wow, i can't believe it. I plugged in my new iPod Nano which i just bought yesterday, and either i'm on drugs or asleep and dreaming, or Apple has done the job with aplomb. The iPod Nano from the line-out directly into my headphones is nigh-on perfect!! I'm not joking guys, Apple have clearly done their home work. It's amazing how this tiny iPod Nano can drive full-sized headphones with punch and power, but it is. The difference was immediately apparent. very similar to the E17K but without the anomalies of the E17K. The treble was dead-on accurate, the air and clarity was back in the top-end, the bass was deep and punchy without the slight boominess of the E17, and the midrange clarity and transparency was remarkable. The soundstage, absolutely perfect and totally realistic, not too wide and not narrow in any way, simply accurate! And then the detail retrieval, quite scary! And the imaging, fantastic! Also, the dynamics and transient response of the music were all fast and well-timed, no lag here folks. I simply cannot fault it.
Songs i am utterly acquainted and know better than the back of my hand are displayed absolutely dead-on accurate. And i can only put the iPod nano volume at 75%, otherwise it's too loud and hurts my ears, and yet i like loud sound, so that tells you they have plenty of drive under the covers, the iPod nano is driving my pro headphones with aplomb, the Yamaha MT220 - 37ohms. I'm astonished but ecstatic and yes i've double-checked, i'm not dreaming. Who would have thought? The iPod Nano IMO sh_ts all over my three FiiO amps, sorry, but i have the proof right here in front of me.
Is there anything else that bodes well from this new iPod Nano revelation and performance? Well yes there is...
1: Gone is all the hassle and bulk and weight and irksome inconvenience having to carry the amp/dac paired to a smartphone.
2: Excellent battery - 30 hours playback time
3: Weighs only 31gms
4: Unlike Android Smartphones it plays Apple lossless Audio Codec as well as WAV etc
5: Can accept 24bit 48khz files
Is there anything else i can say that might qualify my new findings for those who are curious, well yes i think there is... we know Apple doesn't do things in halves, we know they are perfectionists, we know their engineers are meticulous and aim for the highest standards of functionality, and we know the iPod Nano is the most ubiquitous music player on the planet AND IN ITS 7th GENERATION, so Apple is only interested in making sure these players perform. If we look at the extent to which Apple went to redesign its ear buds, here's the spiel from their website...
"Apple designers and engineers had the goal of creating earbuds that rest and stay comfortably inside a variety of ear types — while also producing the best sound quality possible. They tested 124 different prototypes on over 600 people. The result is a breakthrough for earbud headphones. They’re called EarPods. They look unlike anything you’ve ever seen. They sound unlike any earbuds you’ve ever heard. And the audio quality is so superior, they rival high-end headphones."
Therefore, we know it is safe to assume that if Apple went to this much trouble to create their earbuds, it would be safe to assume that they put just as much expertise and time into designing/choosing the DAC and Amp section, and the results bear that out, i am happy to report that the results are spectacular!! They went for accuracy, NOT WARMTH, and i believe folks they have succeeded!
It looks like good things really do come to those who wait.
Does all this all mean that i will forsake all other DAPs, maybe not! It just means for now i can relax and enjoy, and all the frantic hunting for DAPs and DAC/AMPs etc can be well and truly put on hold, maybe even permanently; i have found what i deem 99% audiophile audio performance and great listening pleasure in a very convenient and portable fuss-free package. But, i am still interested in the iBasso DX90 if it can function as a portable DAC/AMP, and because i am a music producer the iBasso will accomodate storage and play-back of my songs produced and mastered as 24bit 96khz audio files, nice! And also the IBasso DAP has a user replaceable battery.
Sorry to all the guys for my previous hasty posts about the performance of the E17K, what can i say, i messed-up. Cheers.
