[2000impreza]

Aside from the potential increase in distortion and noise another problem is you cannot use the E11 and charge it at the same time. It would drive me nuts to have downtime while the E11 is on the charger.

 

[Terja]

First of all let's clear things up:
 
When the E17 (or E7) is docked on the E9, the only way to utilize the E9 internal amp is through the two headphone outs at the front. The line outs at the back of the E9 remain unamped but are different in that the RCA line out is a fixed level line out while the 3.5mm line out is signal level adjustable via the E9 volume pot - it is not being amped (only the signal level is being adjusted). Signal level adjustment is merely a convenience so you can have easy access to volume control via the E9 instead of your eventual speakers or amplifier.
 
Quote:

So the E9 acts as an adapter between E17 and E11? I don't understand.

 
Yes, in a sense the E9 is a kind of adapter between the two, but it is more than that. The advantage is it allows you easy access to various connection outputs while the E17 serves as a DAC. It also charges the E17 (when the option is on) and in my view provides a more potent DAC signal than you get when the E17 is serving as a DAC on it's own (undocked). I put it down to the fact that the E17/E9 combo is AC powered whereas the E17 as a standalone DAC is only USB powered. The E9 adds potency and energy to the E17 signal.
 
Quote:

i only have fiio e17 lol, does it beat the e11 in your opinion? 

 
From my own assessment the E11 amp section is better than the E17 amp section. Of course the E11 is only an amp whereas the E17 is a DAC/Amp. Another thing is the E11 cannot be charged and used at the same time. This is definitely a drawback as 2000impreza points out. Still, it does give about 10 hours of playback time. Just charge it between listening sessions. Oh yeah, also without a doubt, the E11 is a much better amp than the E9, sound quality wise.
 

 

[sunninho]

Do you think this combo will be enough to power 600 Ohm cans like the DT 880 / 990 and even the Tesla T1?

 

[Terja]

 
Quote:

Do you think this combo will be enough to power 600 Ohm cans like the DT 880 / 990 and even the Tesla T1?

 
I do not have personal experience with high impedance cans, so I'm not sure. But the question was recently asked on Headfonia's E11 page. FWIW here is Mike's answer: "I didn't try it specifically with a 600 ohms Beyer, but since it was able to power the heavier HE-500 headphone (much heavier than a 600 ohm beyer), I think it should be good for the DT880. What I'm worried about is the refinement of the amplifier. It may not be refined enough for the DT880." I think the combo as a whole provides more power than the E11 on its own so that may be something else to consider.

 

[SHP53]

How exactly does the E11 provide better sound quality than an E9? Doesn't the E9 provide a lot more power? Or does that not go hand-in-hand with sound quality? Also, what exactly do you mean by heavier? In terms of actual weight or ohms? Because HE-500 has 38 ohms and the Beyers have 880.
 
@Topic
This connection seems very interesting. Once I upgrade to another headphone along with the E9/E17 combo I will definitely try this setup out, as I already have an E11.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Again, why the hell would you use the E11 over the E9? It makes NO sense whatsoever. The E11 is inferior to the E11 in every way short of portability.

This is just... weird. The only reason to use the E11 over the E9 is for impedance matching, and I have never heard the E9 audibly distort low ohm headphones through the 6.3mm (1/4") out.

The benefits of the E9 would outweigh the E11... but I guess people like weird, redundant setups...

 

[Terja]

Quote:

How exactly does the E11 provide better sound quality than an E9? Doesn't the E9 provide a lot more power? Or does that not go hand-in-hand with sound quality? Also, what exactly do you mean by heavier? In terms of actual weight or ohms? Because HE-500 has 38 ohms and the Beyers have 880.

 
Yes the E9 has gobs of power; but the reason for power is to be able to get to your normal listening volume and both of these amps have more than sufficient power to get you there. Once you've reached your level that's where SQ comes in. The E11 just picks up more detail along the way and presents it with more warmth than the E9 which in comparison sounds somewhat rolled off across the spectrum. The E9 doesn't sound as resolved as the E11. And of course it doesn't help the E9 that the E11 can be EQed; the E11 bass boost really makes a difference for some presentations. I have never felt the E9 has been able to take advantage of the capabilities of the Hifiman HE-500; just always seems like there is something missing, something the amp is leaves behind.
 
PS - The reference to heavier was a quote, but I think Mike meant the HE-500 is less sensitive and therefore harder to drive in order to achieve similar results. You can check out the review here if you want: http://www.headfonia.com/fiio-e11-portable-amplifier/.
 
Quote:

Again, why the hell would you use the E11 over the E9? It makes NO sense whatsoever. The E11 is inferior to the E11 in every way short of portability.
This is just... weird. The only reason to use the E11 over the E9 is for impedance matching, and I have never heard the E9 audibly distort low ohm headphones through the 6.3mm (1/4") out.
The benefits of the E9 would outweigh the E11... but I guess people like weird, redundant setups...

 
You're right, the E9 doesn't distort - that initial reference was to my Bellari HA540 which tends to have a smaller headroom for driving headphones; it's a great amp otherwise. You mention that you've run the Schiit Lyr out of the E7/E9 RCA outs. How does the Lyr compare to the E9, especially with low impedance cans? Also have you tried any of the Hifiman orthos with that set up? I would really like to try the Lyr with the HE-500 before deciding if it is a good match. I just don't believe wattage or power is the 'be and end all' of amplification; there are other equally important factors that come into play.
 

 

[MattTCG]

I'm very interested in the e17 as a backup amp/dac. Does it run the he400 well by itself?

 

[Terja]

 
Quote:

I'm very interested in the e17 as a backup amp/dac. Does it run the he400 well by itself?

 
I only have the HE-500 and the answer is yes! I have to be at the 12dB gain to drive the HE-500s well, but it has more than sufficient power for it at that level. It also sounds pretty smooth and full. The HE400 would be even easier for the E17 to drive. So as a backup amp/dac most definitely; I'd say even as a primary setup actually!

 

[jorjjamur]

i would say the e17-L7-e11 is a cheaper combo then... since L7 bypassed the amp section of the e17... portable too and yes it sounds really really good... tho i don't use he 500... only a humble brainwavz HM5 + FA wood cups mode... 8 steps beech. 

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

You're right, the E9 doesn't distort - that initial reference was to my Bellari HA540 which tends to have a smaller headroom for driving headphones; it's a great amp otherwise. You mention that you've run the Schiit Lyr out of the E7/E9 RCA outs. How does the Lyr compare to the E9, especially with low impedance cans? Also have you tried any of the Hifiman orthos with that set up? I would really like to try the Lyr with the HE-500 before deciding if it is a good match. I just don't believe wattage or power is the 'be and end all' of amplification; there are other equally important factors that come into play.
 

I owned the Schiit Lyr with the HE-4, which is even harder to drive than the HE500. The E9 didn't stand a chance driving the HE-4s as well as the Lyr. Howeverm, the HE-4 was brighter than the HE500, and the Lyr tended to soften up the sound signature. Not sure if it works well with the HE500.

 

[Terja]

 
Quote:

i would say the e17-L7-e11 is a cheaper combo then... since L7 bypassed the amp section of the e17... portable too and yes it sounds really really good... tho i don't use he 500... only a humble brainwavz HM5 + FA wood cups mode... 8 steps beech. 

 

Mmmm ... interesting. Let me try that and see how it is (will post back here) ...
 
Yup -- real sweet, so yummy. I'm listening to Lizz Wright (Dreaming Wide Awake). I'm actually surprised I have driving headroom left on the E11. In some ways I actually prefer this setup (minus the E9). Sounds smoother somehow and yet still full. Nice setup for the Hifiman HE500 - all for $200. There are drawbacks of course - mainly not being able to charge and play the E11 at the same time. I'm actually considering getting a second battery and charger .. lol .. but the cost would be close to the price of a new E11, so I might as well get a second E11 for swapping and charging. The little amp is worth it. Wow impressed ... E17-L7-E11 -- sweet! Amazing! So much better than E17 on its own!

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,
 
I have the E11 and E10. I also have an Asgard and Lyr. The E9 outputs a little bit less than the Asgard. The Asgard just meets what's needed to fully drive the HE-500. The Lyr has more than enough power for the HE-500. The E10 and E11 can make it make volume, but it's not fully dynamic on that low of power. There's a reason Dr. Fang suggests at least 1 watt into these headphones. Putting a few milliwatts into it and getting volume is not properly driving them. When I test my HE-500 from the E10 compared to from my Lyr, I can tell quite a difference, especially in the low end. So if anyone thinks they're going to power their high end HE-500's with a $60 amp, I've got some disappointing news for you.
 
If you're looking for an inexpensive way to drive an HE-500 or any other insensitive headphone, the NFB-12 at $200 is pretty much one of the most powerful little things you'll find. It'll throw over 2 watts into 38ohms of the HE-500 for $200. With a DAC. Way better power than $300 worth of Fiio portables linked up.
 

 
Very best,

 

[Terja]

 
Quote:

I owned the Schiit Lyr with the HE-4, which is even harder to drive than the HE500. The E9 didn't stand a chance driving the HE-4s as well as the Lyr. Howeverm, the HE-4 was brighter than the HE500, and the Lyr tended to soften up the sound signature. Not sure if it works well with the HE500.

 
I'm hearing mixed signals about the Lyr. There is enough feedback that it is a good match for the HE-500, but a lot of this simply boils down to it having enough power for the HPs and little else. And then of course there are the Schiit concerns about pops, hisses, and special procedures to turn the amps on/off etc, and that's problematic for me. I tend to leave my headphones plugged in and then turn the attached amp off or on as needed - so I'm really concerned about blowing a gasket at some point with the Lyr (& I don't like being cautious all the time).
 
I'm also seriously considering the Audio-gd 12.1. The form factor is a vast improvement over the "open the hood" design of the 12 version. It has a more modest power signature than the Lyr, I think 3 watts vs 6, but more than is required for the HE-500. I wish I could try it first though (unfortunately it is as rare as super-heated carbon around here).
 
From what you wrote I'm assuming you no longer have the Schiit Lyr. Did you have any concerns when you owned it - for example with operation, tubes, or sound and so forth?

 

[Terja]

 
Quote:

Heya,
 
I have the E11 and E10. I also have an Asgard and Lyr. The E9 outputs a little bit less than the Asgard. The Asgard just meets what's needed to fully drive the HE-500. The Lyr has more than enough power for the HE-500. The E10 and E11 can make it make volume, but it's not fully dynamic on that low of power. There's a reason Dr. Fang suggests at least 1 watt into these headphones. Putting a few milliwatts into it and getting volume is not properly driving them. When I test my HE-500 from the E10 compared to from my Lyr, I can tell quite a difference, especially in the low end. So if anyone thinks they're going to power their high end HE-500's with a $60 amp, I've got some disappointing news for you.
 
If you're looking for an inexpensive way to drive an HE-500 or any other insensitive headphone, the NFB-12 at $200 is pretty much one of the most powerful little things you'll find. It'll throw over 2 watts into 38ohms of the HE-500 for $200. With a DAC. Way better power than $300 worth of Fiio portables linked up.
 
Very best,

 

Hey MalVeauX - didn't see your post appear as I was just typing up my reply to Mad Lust Envy; thanks for the feedback. I do not consider the E10 capable at all of fully driving the HE-500, but the E11 is another story altogether. Since you have both the HE-500 and the E11, the proof is in the pudding. Just hook up the E11 to a portable preferably via a line-out-dock and try your Hifiman through it. Make sure your E11 is on high gain and also switch the power option underneath the battery to high power ... if you haven't tried it this way you're in for a surprise. I'm not sure myself how this little amp can drive such a hefty HP so authoritatively (but it does).
 
Again, it is the E11 that is really the subject of this thread, the other parts (E17/E9) are simply a necessary step to get from digital to analog and can be swapped with something else though I do prefer the AC powered Fiio Dac (sounds fuller and more present). See my post above - I am looking at the Audio-gd NFB-12.1 as a very viable option. Have you tried this with the HE-500?