[LarsMan]

Those who have tried Utopia with Oor, did you set the OOR to low gain? At CanJam NYC, what I heard was every instrument at about equal volume level so it had a harsh wall of sound noise to it.
I checked the sensitivity yesterday and it's rated at 104 db/w so I am thinking that if I had lowered the gain on the OOR I would have had an experience that was comparable to the Clear MG.

I always use mid-position gain on the Oor unless I'm using Susvara...

 

[Sajid Amit]

Wow. I loved the Primaluna EVO 400 integrated amp. Pairing that with my ZMF Verite Closed was the single best I have ever heard it. I thought it was too much amp for the VC, so I got the Ampsandsound Rockwell instead. I just saw last night your reviews on the Ferrum Orr and using the EVO 400 as preamp. That sounds very interesting. How does using it as preamp rather than integrated amp change the sound? I actually love tube amp sound more than solid state, so that may be a difference.

I got into the PrimaLunas after trying my Auteur with the EVO 200 integrated amp. I was very very impressed, promptly bought it, and that got me into PrimaLunas.

The EVO 200 also had this amazing synergy with the Raal SR1a. BEST I have heard. In fact, I raved about it everyone who would listen, and I was happy to see Raal incorporate el34 tubes in their new amp.

Later, I upgraded to the EVO 400 to drive the SR1a, and while it was more of everything compared to the EVO 200, I preferred the EVO 200 with the SR1a.

When I say "more of everything" I mean to say that the triode mode on the 400 was far more tubey (warm, in this case) than the EVO 200, while the ultralinear mode was more solid state like, fast, dynamic and sharper. However, I lost that magical middle ground I had with the 200, lol.

In any case, I sold the SR1a and the EVO 400, because the duo just wasn't doing it for me. And I wasn't comfortable with the form factor and limiations of the SR1a.

I thought I was done with PrimaLunas until I brought the EVO 400 pre-amp to audition and review. And I found my sweet spot again I have to say.

It's just tube flavor done right, esp when paired with the Ferrum stack. I get a more cohesive sound stage that sits in front of me, instead of forming a three-blob. Clearly more holography, environmental information, a sense of reverb and "echo" which are harder to describe unless one has heard a good tube amp, while retaining good speed and bass depth. Treble is certainly better-mannered and last but not the least, the midrange is brought a tad forward. That's how I hear it.

I returned my review unit and bought a new unbroken one. I have to say the review unit sounded a tad better lol, since the tubes were properly broken in, but that's life.

It's an amazing pre to have with the Ferrum stack. It becomes an 8000 dollar preamp + amp setup, but in terms of overall sonic presentation, it's probably endgame for the Utopia.

For the Susvara, purely in terms of synergy, it beats my $8000 Accuphase e380 and $11,000 Pass Labs setups. This is coming from someone who champions speaker amps for the Susvara. Of course, the speaker amps eke out the last 5-10% in technical performance, but my listening pleasure has definitely increased with Ferrum.

I have bought this stack from @Ferrum Audio since. I just wish they would get back to me about the warranty information which I have been pushing for, lol.

Edit: I have the warranty information now. Thanks @Ferrum Audio. Superb work on the amps.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I got into the PrimaLunas after trying my Auteur with the EVO 200 integrated amp. I was very very impressed, promptly bought it, and that got me into PrimaLunas.

The EVO 200 also had this amazing synergy with the Raal SR1a. BEST I have heard. In fact, I raved about it everyone who would listen, and I was happy to see Raal incorporate el34 tubes in their new amp.

Later, I upgraded to the EVO 400 to drive the SR1a, and while it was more of everything compared to the EVO 200, I preferred the EVO 200 with the SR1a.

When I say "more of everything" I mean to say that the triode mode on the 400 was far more tubey (warm, in this case) than the EVO 200, while the ultralinear mode was more solid state like, fast, dynamic and sharper. However, I lost that magical middle ground I had with the 200, lol.

In any case, I sold the SR1a and the EVO 400, because the duo just wasn't doing it for me. And I wasn't comfortable with the form factor and limiations of the SR1a.

I thought I was done with PrimaLunas until I brought the EVO 400 pre-amp to audition and review. And I found my sweet spot again I have to say.

It's just tube flavor done right, esp when paired with the Ferrum stack. I get a more cohesive sound stage that sits in front of me, instead of forming a three-blob. Clearly more holography, environmental information, a sense of reverb and "echo" which are harder to describe unless one has heard a good tube amp, while retaining good speed and bass depth. Treble is certainly better-mannered and last but not the least, the midrange is brought a tad forward. That's how I hear it.

I returned my review unit and bought a new unbroken one. I have to say the review unit sounded a tad better lol, since the tubes were properly broken in, but that's life.

It's an amazing pre to have with the Ferrum stack. It becomes an 8000 dollar preamp + amp setup, but in terms of overall sonic presentation, it's probably endgame for the Utopia.

For the Susvara, purely in terms of synergy, it beats my $8000 Accuphase e380 and $11,000 Pass Labs setups. This is coming from someone who champions speaker amps for the Susvara.

I have bought this stack from @Ferrum Audio since. I just wish they would get back to me about the warranty information which I have been pushing for, lol.

I know a Primaluna dealer in Atlanta who carries the whole line. Since the Ferrum Orr is so light, I think I'll take it with me to demo the whole line with it. I would have never tried a preamp with it had I not seen your video. This dealer is also a chord dealer, so I could try the whole Chord line of DACs with it although I am very intrigued by the Holo May since I became enamoured with R2R dacs.

I also bought my Ferrum Orr from Vana who was exhibiting at CanJam NYC. The owner seemed like a competent guy. He services the units and he told me that he didn't have any of the units with QC problems. He said they isolated the problem and all of the units he had that were defective, he swapped out before sending them to customers.

 

[Sajid Amit]

I know a Primaluna dealer in Atlanta who carries the whole line. Since the Ferrum Orr is so light, I think I'll take it with me to demo the whole line with it. I would have never tried a preamp with it had I not seen your video. This dealer is also a chord dealer, so I could try the whole Chord line of DACs with it although I am very intrigued by the Holo May since I became enamoured with R2R dacs.

The PrimaLuna - Ferrum - May chain work really well.

So you have midrange-first holography of the preamp + preciseness and solid bass control of the Ferrum Stack + a whole lot of naturalness with the May.

But do try the Chord stuff in case you like them! I can't unhear R2R's but that's me.

 

[prismstorm]

Got the Ferrum OOR + HYPSOS stack and the chain is Macbook Pro > AudioQuest Cinnamon USB Cable > Bifrost 2 Unison USB > XLR Interconnect > Ferrum OOR (powered by HYPSOS) > XLR out to Susvara

Although the sound is very transparent and clean, bass is still not that strong, and even on high gain mode (+dB) the volume knob is cranked to 3 o'clock position and Susvara is still not having enough power or sounding full or loud enough. HYPSOS display indicates output power to be around 15-17W and output current at 0.6-0.8A.

What gives? Is Susvara still being underpowered, I thought this combo is already one of the best (testified by many to work well) for driving it? Or time to switch to another headphone?

 

[chargedcapacitor]

Got the Ferrum OOR + HYPSOS stack and the chain is Macbook Pro > AudioQuest Cinnamon USB Cable > Bifrost 2 Unison USB > XLR Interconnect > Ferrum OOR (powered by HYPSOS) > XLR out to Susvara

Although the sound is very transparent and clean, bass is still not that strong, and even on high gain mode (+dB) the volume knob is cranked to 3 o'clock position and Susvara is still not having enough power or sounding full or loud enough. HYPSOS display indicates output power to be around 15-17W and output current at 0.6-0.8A.

What gives? Is Susvara still being underpowered, I thought this combo is already one of the best (testified by many to work well) for driving it? Or time to switch to another headphone?

Susvara's bass isn't as strong as LCD, Focal, or 1266 bass, no matter how you amplify it.

 

[Sajid Amit]

Susvara's bass isn't as strong as LCD, Focal, or 1266 bass, no matter how you amplify it.

Yup. That's just how it is.

 

[krude]

Susvara's bass isn't as strong as LCD, Focal, or 1266 bass, no matter how you amplify it.

Interesting, with stock tuning that's true, but Susvara is capable of strong bass performance with EQ. For bass heads the only set I know of that can work without EQ is the TC ... but I would argue that if you crave high amount of bass it's a must to have good EQ in your toolkit. On my setup Susvara runs head to head with the TC and it's a trully spectacular set (I also used to think it's weak, veiled, boring and flakey when I didn't know how to use it).

 

[prismstorm]

Susvara's bass isn't as strong as LCD, Focal, or 1266 bass, no matter how you amplify it.

So basically on a technical level, I am driving the Susvara sufficiently already, it's just how it's tuned that is resulting in not much bass?

Yup. That's just how it is.

Do you only listen to bass-light genres with the Susvara then complement them with another bassier headphone then?

Interesting, with stock tuning that's true, but Susvara is capable of strong bass performance with EQ. For bass heads the only set I know of that can work without EQ is the TC ... but I would argue that if you crave high amount of bass it's a must to have good EQ in your toolkit. On my setup Susvara runs head to head with the TC and it's a trully spectacular set (I also used to think it's weak, veiled, boring and flakey when I didn't know how to use it).

There's no way to achieve bass or warmth without dabbling into EQ?

 

[MatW]

So basically on a technical level, I am driving the Susvara sufficiently already, it's just how it's tuned that is resulting in not much bass?

Yup. As we told you a few weeks ago in the Susvara thread ...

 

[krude]

So basically on a technical level, I am driving the Susvara sufficiently already, it's just how it's tuned that is resulting in not much bass?

Do you only listen to bass-light genres with the Susvara then complement them with another bassier headphone then?

There's no way to achieve bass or warmth without dabbling into EQ?

If you want to have strong bass without EQ you need a headphone with harman tunning for bass. That being said there are not many totl sets that will give you this, as audiophile gear usually has flat / reference bass tuning. I listen to a lot of bass heavy music and one of my main criterea for enjoying that kind of music is impact. I get that from all of my sets in spades.

Ways to try to get good bass impact without EQ :
1. Get the 1266 TC and play around with positioning the drivers so thay hang next to your ears.
2. Get Utopia / Stellia and a tube amp with variable output impedance (this boosts the bass and makes the sound more wet).
3. I've heard that LCD4 is good with bass but can't verify myself.
... hmm
cheat and use good EQ for the bass shelf

 

[prismstorm]

Yup. As we told you a few weeks ago in the Susvara thread ...

Ok thanks, that means it's the headphones themselves that's the issue, I can rest in this journey to 'fix' the Susvara finally. It'll never be what I expected it to be even if my chain is correct. Cool ...

If you want to have strong bass without EQ you need a headphone with harman tunning for bass. That being said there are not many totl sets that will give you this, as audiophile gear usually has flat / reference bass tuning. I listen to a lot of bass heavy music and one of my main criterea for enjoying that kind of music is impact. I get that from all of my sets in spades.

Ways to try to get good bass impact without EQ :
1. Get the 1266 TC and play around with positioning the drivers so thay hang next to your ears.
2. Get Utopia / Stellia and a tube amp with variable output impedance (this boosts the bass and makes the sound more wet).
3. I've heard that LCD4 is good with bass but can't verify myself.
... hmm
cheat and use good EQ for the bass shelf

Ok, I'll give it a couple of months time and then sell it for bass heavy headphones and solve this whole problem altogether

 

[MatW]

Ok thanks, that means it's the headphones themselves that's the issue, I can rest in this journey to 'fix' the Susvara finally. It'll never be what I expected it to be even if my chain is correct. Cool ...

Ok, I'll give it a couple of months time and then sell it for bass heavy headphones and solve this whole problem altogether

If you see it as a 'problem' then yeah you should go ahead and sell the Susvara to buy an Abyss 1266 TC. The Ferrum stack is perfectly capable of driving the TC too, so no harm done there imo. Why wait?

 

[krude]

If you see it as a 'problem' then yeah you should go ahead and sell the Susvara to buy an Abyss 1266 TC. The Ferrum stack is perfectly capable of driving the TC too, so no harm done there imo. Why wait?

Yeah TC sounds great with Oor, completely different from Susvara but an excellent set imo.

 

[krude]

Ok thanks, that means it's the headphones themselves that's the issue, I can rest in this journey to 'fix' the Susvara finally. It'll never be what I expected it to be even if my chain is correct. Cool ...

Ok, I'll give it a couple of months time and then sell it for bass heavy headphones and solve this whole problem altogether

Also don't beat yourself up, getting solid bass out of Susvara is a quest that pretty much every Susvara owner goes on ... it needs a lot of experimentation, investment, time, dedication, it can be done, but took me round 8 months to get to where I want to be with it. TC gives you bass in spades from almost any chain, you have to fight to get it to sound clean with good midrange though, but Oor will sort this out pretty much.