[MatW]

Yep it's single ended internally, there are no balanced inputs though, only single ended.

There are also units with XLR connectors. I have one. Picture below is from the web though. But the internals are still single ended.

This is the 2800EUR power supply...

Reminds me of the inside of the Roon Nucleus:

 

[GoldenSound]

There are also units with XLR connectors. I have one. Picture below is from the web though. But the internals are still single ended.

Ah ok
Well....lets hope they're actually doing the balanced to SE conversion safely. But my guess is they're just shorting the negative to ground (which could damage some dacs immediately or over time) given as there is no balanced buffer circuitry in the amp itself.

Reminds me of the inside of the Roon Nucleus:

Yep the Roon Nucleus is another joke tbh. I'm sure the chassis was not all that cheap to make, so that could genuinely be a few hundred, but charging a several hundred percent markup for what is literally just a standard NUC is ridiculous.

I love roon itself, honestly couldn't live without it, but the nucleus is a waste of money.

Unfortunately these sorts of products are ever-present in audio.

There's the Taiko Extreme which sells for THIRTY THOUSAND EUROS https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/product/sgm-extreme-high-end-music-server/
And it's literally just a regular server mobo/cpu with a fancy chassis and psu.
https://www.asus.com/uk/Commercial-Servers-Workstations/WS-C621E-SAGE/

I quite like how they've marked one of the USB outputs as 'DAC' even though it's just one of the stock outputs on the mobo that happens to be a couple cm from the other usb banks.

Given the fact that this is going to be an extremely beefy PC this system would almost certainly have vastly higher noise levels than most regular PCs, and a raspberry pi at $50 would be laughing.

But hey, it's expensive with a fancy chassis so it MUST be good right?

 

[OneEyedHito]

Yeah the internals of the formula s are..... Well woeful to say the least. Pretty sure it's literally just a couple opamps under those heatsyncs too.

Yep it's single ended internally, there are no balanced inputs though, only single ended.

And yep bonus points for the heatsyncs on the side not being attached to anything.

If people have the formula S and enjoy it that's great, but I could never recommend that to anyone.

This is the 2800EUR power supply....


Their Sagra DAC is also just using the Soekris DAM1021-12 board which is 299 EUR (and likely much less given XI will be ordering bulk).
Possibly even the DAM1012-05 which is 219 EUR RRP.....

Slap a $50 amanero USB module and MAYBE $100 of PSU parts in there and boom, sell it for a 1000% markup....



I'm sure plenty of people enjoy their XI audio products, and that's great. Honestly nowadays most stuff sounds good, but there is no way they can justify that sort of ridiculous markup. It's a borderline scam.

All of this said, I still prefer sound over aesthetics, measurements, and construction. How does the Powerman / Formula S stuff sound?! I’ve heard it is reference level for some but we know how hearing differs. Any comparisons here against the Ferrum Gear that we are discussing or just the internals and heat sinks?

 

[Andy777777]

I’m not sure we can condemn the Sagra DAC just because it uses Soekris parts. They are quality R2R boards. Are there any other DACs that use Soekris boards and a linear PSU at the same or lower price?

For that matter, do we know the actual cost on the in house R2R boards like Sonnet, Metrum and Aqua? It may similar to the Soekris OEM parts

Not trying to bait anyone, genuinely asking!

 

[GoldenSound]

I’m not sure we can condemn the Sagra DAC just because it uses Soekris parts. They are quality R2R boards. Are there any other DACs that use Soekris boards and a linear PSU at the same or lower price?

For that matter, do we know the actual cost on the in house R2R boards like Sonnet, Metrum and Aqua? It may similar to the Soekris OEM parts

Not trying to bait anyone, genuinely asking!

The soekris stuff is indeed good. I'm not at all saying that the sagra dac is bad, in fact the fact that it's using a soekris board implies it probably is decent. I'm just saying that the price is completely unjustified.

The schiit vali 2 is a nice little amp. But if it was £5000 it'd be ridiculous.

We don't know much about other manufacturers margins. But they'll have R&D costs (and will not have the benefit of economies of scale that soekris does given the volume they produce) that will increase things significantly.

But regardless of the true value, even a quick glance inside a terminator, may, or wavelight (all of which are very similarly priced to the sagra) will show that there is a lot more cost involved than putting a couple low-cost oem parts together

 

[Gavin C4]

Yeah the internals of the formula s are..... Well woeful to say the least. Pretty sure it's literally just a couple opamps under those heatsyncs too.

Yep it's single ended internally, there are no balanced inputs though, only single ended.

And yep bonus points for the heatsyncs on the side not being attached to anything.

If people have the formula S and enjoy it that's great, but I could never recommend that to anyone.

This is the 2800EUR power supply....


Their Sagra DAC is also just using the Soekris DAM1021-12 board which is 299 EUR (and likely much less given XI will be ordering bulk).
Possibly even the DAM1012-05 which is 219 EUR RRP.....

Slap a $50 amanero USB module and MAYBE $100 of PSU parts in there and boom, sell it for a 1000% markup....



I'm sure plenty of people enjoy their XI audio products, and that's great. Honestly nowadays most stuff sounds good, but there is no way they can justify that sort of ridiculous markup. It's a borderline scam.

The Ferrum Hypsos power supply is much better and generous regarding the internal components. Double the number of power capacitors and the ability to change voltage. A much more complicated circuit board. And it is made in Poland. This is totally a different realm with the xi audio power supply.

 

[lucasratmundo]

Add me to the list of gain issues. My unit stopped working at fully +16db gain, it outputs the same power/volume at 0db & -6db of gain but occasionally the volume will suddenly increase to the +16db gain, I have to be extra careful with the volume right now. When it arrived it powered my Susvara to Max listening volume with the volume at 12 o'clock and now it requires volume at 3 o'clock to even full volume.

Ferrum is not wanting to replace my unit but wants me to send mine to the North America Distributor to have the Main Board replaced. I am going to reach out again now after reading these other experiences and request a full exchange or return. I will be keeping the Hyposis regardless, it is a great piece of kit.

Keep up the great work on YT please.

Update: My Dealer is doing his best and I am hopeful for a good resolution soon. We are pushing for an exchange to a confirmed good unit.

My Oor was delivered today. My unit requires 3 o'clock at high gain to drive the Susvara properly from day one. Expected?

 

[FooFighter]

My Oor was delivered today. My unit requires 3 o'clock at high gain to drive the Susvara properly from day one. Expected?

RCA or XLR?
What your source voltage?
From around 4V source XLR I am hardly getting over 12 o'clock ever, mostly around 11 o'clock.
I strongly recommend running Oor balanced to fully use it as it's also a fully balanced implementation.
3 o'clock is my volume wheel position listening on Medium Gain for a smoother more forgiving presentation with less dynamics.

 

[OneEyedHito]

My Oor was delivered today. My unit requires 3 o'clock at high gain to drive the Susvara properly from day one. Expected?

No! Are you using the Hyposis? Asking because you have to set the voltage to the Oor if so.

 

[GoldenSound]

It's not possible to tell whether the amp is outputting the correct level by comparing to others listening levels.

Different people listen at different volumes. Different dacs will have different output levels, different tracks need different levels.

If you want to be sure you need to get a multimeter

 

[lucasratmundo]

FWIW, I’m using XLR inputs on the Oor fed by a May DAC.

 

[FooFighter]

FWIW, I’m using XLR inputs on the Oor fed by a May DAC.

Gosh, I wished I had your DAC, that's really decent!
I was trying to find the XLR output voltage of your KTE but haven't succeeded.
Can you try to find out?
Would be a joke to need an extra preamp for that decent DAC.
But in fact there are DACs with only 2 Volts, not sure about KTE.
3 o'clock at high gain xlr wouldn't be acceptable for me personally with Susvara too...
Or there's indeed an issue with Oor

Edit:
I found this thread here:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/holo-audio-may-kte-dac.30952/post-718815

It seems on the May DAC DSD output is -6Db than PCM.
Running in PCM mode with 5.8Vrms out of XLR your ears must explode at 3 o'clock on high gain Imho.

Can you pls check in which mode you have tested the volume?

 

[OneEyedHito]

Gosh, I wished I had your DAC, that's really decent!
I was trying to find the XLR output voltage of your KTE but haven't succeeded.
Can you try to find out?
Would be a joke to need an extra preamp for that decent DAC.
But in fact there are DACs with only 2 Volts, not sure about KTE.
3 o'clock at high gain xlr wouldn't be acceptable for me personally with Susvara too...
Or there's indeed an issue with Oor

Edit:
I found this thread here:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/holo-audio-may-kte-dac.30952/post-718815

It seems on the May DAC DSD output is -6Db than PCM.
Running in PCM mode with 5.8Vrms out of XLR your ears must explode at 3 o'clock on high gain Imho.

Can you pls check in which mode you have tested the volume?

Here are the output specs for the May & Spring 3.

27Ohm for RCA and 54Ohm for XLR

5.8V XLR
2.8V RCA

 

[FooFighter]

It's not possible to tell whether the amp is outputting the correct level by comparing to others listening levels.

Different people listen at different volumes. Different dacs will have different output levels, different tracks need different levels.

If you want to be sure you need to get a multimeter

I understand but honestly I wouldn't feel comfortable needing to run a Poweramp at 75% throttle (does that translate correctly from the OOR measurements at 3 o'clock?) to reach a comfortable listening level with my favorite headphone.
As a comparison: am running Susvara at 75% throttle out of my underpowered Shanling M30 directly in Transistor (OPAMP mode) without additional Poweramp for a comfortable listening volume.

 

[lucasratmundo]

Oops, my bad, the Oor is actually connected to a TT2, not May. Apologies for the confusion!