[Johnnysound]

...

 

[SnapperMusicFan]

I have been playing with a pair of 6H8C's in with a pair of EL12's this gives a tight bass, great with acoustic guitar/female voice. I really love the sound of the EL11's in the Elise as well at the moment I have a pair of RFT EL11's in with a pair of EL3n's sounds superb through
t1 gen2's

I am trying to work out if you have an amplifier that takes 6SN7 drivers powered by 6AS7G/6080 can you use the EL tubes across any brand of amplifier thats powered by these tubes or does the internal circuitry prevent this?

 

[DecentLevi]

Snapper no wonder your drivers sound good. Those are the holy grail of 6H8C's and very scarce / costly. My Melz 6H8C drivers performed very lowly. Good camera too - recon that's not a phone cam?
Definitely amp and/or tube brands make no difference in compatibility; it's the circuitry / specs that matters. Though some brands can sound different than other tubes even with a near similar design.

 

[SnapperMusicFan]

Snapper no wonder your drivers sound good. Those are the holy grail of 6H8C's and very scarce / costly. My Melz 6H8C drivers performed very lowly. Good camera too - recon that's not a phone cam?
Definitely amp and/or tube brands make no difference in compatibility; it's the circuitry / specs that matters. Though some brands can sound different than other tubes even with a near similar design.

Many thanks DL, I find it really interesting that Feliks Audio doesn't outwardly approve the EL series of tubes, but someone - (H1..??) worked out they would work fabulously with both Elise and Euforia, so is this because someone took a Euforia apart and worked out that
these tubes would work? I have been looking at a WA22 as that takes the same tubes as Elise/Euforia, but the advantage is it's balanced output pre & headphone, this takes the same tubes as Elise/Euforia & if I could get the detail I get out of the EL tubes on a balanced
system, that would be amazing..

I so agree with you I have a pair of Telefunken EL11's that sound quite different to the pair of RFT EL11's.

I have two pairs of these 6H8C's I bought them a few years ago when the price was reasonable, so glad I did. The camera is an iPhone 8 plus with an added sprinkling of photoshop...

 

[mordy]

Many thanks DL, I find it really interesting that Feliks Audio doesn't outwardly approve the EL series of tubes, but someone - (H1..??) worked out they would work fabulously with both Elise and Euforia, so is this because someone took a Euforia apart and worked out that
these tubes would work? I have been looking at a WA22 as that takes the same tubes as Elise/Euforia, but the advantage is it's balanced output pre & headphone, this takes the same tubes as Elise/Euforia & if I could get the detail I get out of the EL tubes on a balanced
system, that would be amazing..

I so agree with you I have a pair of Telefunken EL11's that sound quite different to the pair of RFT EL11's.

I have two pairs of these 6H8C's I bought them a few years ago when the price was reasonable, so glad I did. The camera is an iPhone 8 plus with an added sprinkling of photoshop...

Hi SMF,
The EL3N is a pentode and the octal tubes usable in the Elise/Euforia are dual triodes. In order to use the EL3N in the FA amps you have to use a specially made adapter that converts the pentode to a triode (pentode strapped triode). The driver circuitry is different than another amps (two tubes in parallell) and I don't think that the adapters for the FA amps are compatible with other amps with different circuitry.
I may be wrong on this since I do not understand this stuff that well - best to check with someone who has a good grasp of this topic.

 

[DecentLevi]

Also some tube amps use a sort of auto-kill function (such as Cavalli Liquid Glass IIRC) for tubes that aren't exactly in spec. If you're looking for an upgrade from the Euforia with your same tubes, I'd say the Ulysses amp is a good option, a name @UntilThen came up with for his Glenn amp, which he said is even better than the Rangarok which is already leagues above the current F-A offerings, which must have a staggering performance! One of the rare times I would ever recommend gear without trying it, simply because of the universal and unwavering positive reviews from his amps, from specific people who I trust. I'm thinking UT may have also been the pioneer of EL3N and/or EL11,12 tubes in our amps - IIRC. Or if you don't mind retiring from tube rolling, later this year F-A also has on the table a 2A3 amp which uses tubes very similar to the top performing 300B's.

Also I have learned from direct experience that it really doesn't matter if an amp is balanced or SE - either can perform just as well, depending on the design/specs of the amp.

 

[DecentLevi]

ATTENTION ALL EUFORIA OWNERS - MUST HEAR MUSIC!

OK this is one of those rare times out of all the countless hours of music I listen to that I'm actually going out of my way to recommend an album on this thread.
Art of Noise - The Ambient Collection
and
Art of Noise - Who's Afraid of the Art Of Noise

Art Of Noise was an early 80's British electronic music group, following in the footsteps of Kraftwerk and heralding out of the analogue era, in that their electronic works consist of many analogue samples and gear. Being a multi-decade electronic music fan and even composer, the way these two albums on the Euforia gave me an experience I shall never forget. Stunning in every sense of the word - one of the most transcendental, borderlining spiritual experience I have ever had in home hi-fi. I felt an earthquake below my feet when I was listening to one of the songs from their ambient album - literally . While I'll never know if the earthquake was a tremor or imagined from the sheer sonic bewilderment, all I know is that I'm happier after hearing these albums on the Euforia. Read here what they say about their ambient album. These should be available on your favorite lossless service and if not, it's worth getting a hard copy CD. I also enjoyed their album "Daft", and "Reconstructed... For Your Listening Pleasure" maybe even more because these are available on ultra hi-fi SACD / DSD format. Highly recommended for mellow and traditional electronic sounds. There are even a few songs that made it into semi-popular radiostations and I had no idea it was mastered so well until I heard a lossless copy on the Euforia!

... and the unique tube combo I used played no small role

 

[UntilThen]

Hey @DecentLevi you woke me up from my slumber or should I say my music listening sessions, when you mention my name.

I need to correct you on 'being the pioneer of EL3N and/or EL11,12 in Elise / Euforia'. All I did was spotting the Mazda EL3N on ebay whilst searching for Mazda 6N7G tubes. I posted a picture of that Mazda EL3N on the earlier Elise thread and jokingly ask @hypnos1 to get it to work on Elise. I didn't expect him to try it but he did. The rest is history. EL3N became widely used as drivers in Elise. I was an early adopter. I also go on to try the EL3N as power tubes in Elise. Much later hypnos started experimenting with EL11 as drivers for Elise. Thereafter EL12 and all the variants followed.

Great photo there @SnapperMusicFan . Stunning picture.

My foray into tubes started with a Aune T1 which didn't even belong to me. My son bought it and I was so intrigued with the solitary tube that was used for the DAC section. Thereafter I bought a 2nd hand DarkVoice 336se that was soon followed by Elise and almost a year later, Euforia. Then I bought a 2nd hand La Figaro 339. Then I bought Yggdrasil and Ragnarok. 6 months after Ragnarok I bought Ulysses or Glenn Super 9 OTL amp. My slow start into head-fi has progressed at a bullet train speed. Each of those purchase has certainly been an upgrade in sound and musicality - for me. In my opinion of course.

Glenn Super 9 OTL amp sounds incredible now with Yggdrasil as source and HD800 / LCD-2f / Eikon and Atticus as headphones. My preferred tubes in the OTL amp is Sylvania 6sn7w metal base with 6 x GE 6BX7gt power tubes. This could and should have been the end of the road for me. This setup is that good.... and I've heard lots of stunning gear in the past 3 years, including Blue Hawaii amp with Stax SR009 / 007, Woo Audio WA5LE, Violectric V281, Woo Audio WA22, etc.

However there will be one more tube amp for me and it will involve DHT (direct heated tubes) of either 300b or 2A3 tubes.

Cheers and enjoy the music !

 

[Johnnysound]

Hi J...I myself always found the Russians to - as you say - hit harder in the bass section, but for me, their lesser performance in overall detail and refinement, especially when compared to something like the EL tubes, never really seemed attractive in the end. But as usual YMMV..

Oh yes, H1, but you better forget about detail and refinement when your 22 year old kid and his friends want to hear some ELECTRONIC music in dad’s stereo...

 

[hypnos1]

Hi h1,
You scared me so I disconnected my Frankenstein contraption and switched back to approved power tubes, in this case the GEC 6080. Sounds good with the 6F8G but I miss the 6336B....
Hopefully I will get an amp in the near future that can handle such a load......

Hi mordy.

I'm so sorry the 6336 tube is so much of an animal. I know you found it sounded good in Euforia, but it really isn't worth the risk...and F-A certainly would NOT want to know any amp problems with this tube in place lol!! An amp specifically designed for this tube, and with appropriate circuitry, is the only way to be safe with it...although even then, I dread to think what a short-circuit in such a powerful tube might do to the amp lol!! . Happy safe listening to everyone!...

 

[hypnos1]

Oh yes, H1, but you better forget about detail and refinement when your 22 year old kid and his friends want to hear some ELECTRONIC music in dad’s stereo...

Hi J...indeed, lol! . But as I much prefer acoustic instruments, as in cello/violin/acoustic guitar/piano/orchestra...not to mention proper singing!... the choice is academic!! ...(but I do also like the addition of some electronic, as in 'New Age' music/Clannad/ELO/Loreena McKennitt etc.). But it does, of course, take all sorts lol! ...CHEERS!...

 

[hypnos1]

I have been playing with a pair of 6H8C's in with a pair of EL12's this gives a tight bass, great with acoustic guitar/female voice. I really love the sound of the EL11's in the Elise as well at the moment I have a pair of RFT EL11's in with a pair of EL3n's sounds superb through
t1 gen2's

I am trying to work out if you have an amplifier that takes 6SN7 drivers powered by 6AS7G/6080 can you use the EL tubes across any brand of amplifier thats powered by these tubes or does the internal circuitry prevent this?

Hi SMF...a couple of things to answer here lol. But first, great photo indeed!...keep 'em coming!

As @mordy said, different amps will have different circuits, and it will be difficult to tell just how the EL tubes perform in them. If only one 6SN7 driver is used, for example, a double adapter would be needed to feed both triode sections...but each on the adapter would have to be wired differently - one for left and one right, of course! But 2 drivers, as in Elise & Euforia would probably have the triodes linked in parallel. The same goes for 6AS7 power tubes...unless configured as 'push-pull'.

I must admit, however, that I'm convinced F-A's circuit design differs from many others in such a way as to enable optimum performance of EL tubes, even though their 'measurements' contradict this somewhat! And the fact that everything inside the amp - resistors, capacitors etc. - runs about 10 C cooler than sanctioned tubes is an added bonus...(I went inside the amp and measured the temp. of everything, just to be sure!...and the area immediately below the transformer ran an enormous 20 C cooler!!). This is definitely a case of practice over-riding theory BIG time...

I also notice you had EL12Ns in the power seat...the EL12 Spezial, with top anode connection, is a good bit better lol!

And thanks to @UntilThen for explaining the origins of the EL tubes - his spotting of this 'pretty', red-skirted EL3N sparked my interest enough for me to adapt it and try...the rest is, as said, history!

But it doesn't stop at the EL11/12 family...as I mention to @connieflyer below, my intrigue at the ST-shape EL32/CV1052 is proving far more exciting than anticipated...already my experiments are pointing towards a tube that IMHO is even 'better' than the EL3N or the magical EL11...and could well at least match my extremely rare mesh-plated Philips (Australia) EL3NG and Valvo black glass EL11, also with mesh plate...and which has me dumbfounded lol!!...CJ

 

[hypnos1]

funny you should mention this h, just got all four tubes this afternoon. All 4tubes look to be in very good condition ,original boxes for the straight-sided tubes and replacement boxes for the shoulder style tubes. I was surprised that the got here as quickly as they did. Tubes came from two different sellers so that was interesting. I had a laugh yesterday when the three KR VT 96 tubes came in the date was March of 1944 it was three months before I was born! And I must say they look to be in a lot better condition than I do!

That sounds good cf...all I need now is for the top caps to arrive from Hong Kong...the rest of the adapter gear arrived in record time also...(I suspect that China may well have supplies of some goods in Germany, which could explain it lol).

Anyway, mon ami, my excitement at your own findings mounts by the hour...these NOS ST-shaped CV1052 of mine are proving exceptional tubes. Last night I wasn't sure if they'd be able to match the EL3N and EL11, but as usual, I was much too premature in my judgment! Now they have nearly 20 hours on them, they are already nearly matching my (almost impossible to find) mesh-plated EL3NG and EL11...and at this rate will probably easily equal them...totally unexpected lol!!

Again, they have deathly silent background, with no hint whatsoever of hum, hiss etc., and no startup 'tinkle', 'pinking' etc. of any kind. These are the quietest tubes I have ever encountered, and are also the coolest-running...drawing only 0.2 amp heater current, with lower plate draw/emission as well. If anything, they match - as drivers - the EL12 Spez powers even better than anything else I've tried to date...I can only hope they continue to improve even further!...which every EL tube has done so far, and which bodes very well indeed. As I've said before, I'm firmly convinced that F-A's circuit design actually helps these EL tubes perform far better than theory would dictate.

In short, given the peanuts I was lucky to get these NOS tubes for makes them the bargain of the millenium, not just the century...I am more than happy/impressed lol...... (I'm also convinced using UP-OCC silver and copper wires in adapting the tubes has helped, so that is what I shall use in the adapters!).

Can't wait therefore to see if your straight-sided tubes perform as well as the ST-shaped ones...it will be a (wonderful!) miracle if they do!!...CHEERS!...CJ

 

[DecentLevi]

@hypnos1 interesting progress of the VT52 tubes, would be interesting to hear your impression / comparison after trying two tubes. About the adapter for this, I'll bet we can find another vendor such as another botique amp maker or adapter seller who can fashion a nicely built adapter for these - that is, unless Xuling has premium wires to make one. However these tubes are very hard to find so may not even be enough for all the handful of users on this thread to get one.

Also at only 0.2ah, I would presume one best not try these as powers, in case they may somehow take more than the current needed right?

 

[DecentLevi]

Incoming today were my VT-96 / 6N7. I ordered a pair or Ken-Rad and RCA so I can compare the two. My adapters are still en-route from China.


Thinking the listing was for 1 "tube" instead of "pair", I ordered 2 and ended up with what appears to be a bonus pair: 12SG7 / VT-209. (RCA CRC 12SG7). Checking the data online, looks like these are 12.6v, 0.15ah. Double the voltage output, but I wonder if somehow these would work in the provided ECC31 adapter, in the same way that 12AV7's work with a special adapter that halves the voltage?


... and what about this hexagon-like 12SG7? Looks like a futuristic prototype from Singapore if you ask me... complete with a hot red border!

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