[hypnos1]

OK, I apologize for recommending these socket savers. I just realized the quality of these are NOT good.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bakelite-V...h=item258b9f0bab:g:2-kAAMXQuTNTLSH-:rk:1:pf:0

Thanks for that attmci...good to know.

And would repeat that as far as I myself am concerned, these sorts of things should only ever be used if absolutely necessary, lol!!

 

[hypnos1]

Well I hope this doesn't sound overtly dramatic but I have just had the best audio (headphones/amp/recording) experience of my life!, we've all had them, that familiar recording you've heard dozens of times that's just sounded better than it has ever done, the recording in question was this.

In 24 bit 96000 Hz, the tubes in question being TFK EL11/Philips balloon EL38, the best way I can describe it as being "in the zone" and a quite magical experience, I've had a pretty lousy day today, but listening to this just blew it all away, it's moments like this make me realise (if I ever needed too) what a great hobby we have! .

Aaahhh, Scutey...that's precisely what happened to me when I first heard this hi-res version (from HDTracks) a good while ago now. But doubly so with the EL38s in place! .

And even more amazing, considering how old the original recording was. Definitely the sort of quality remastering that is far from the norm alas!! ...wonderful!...

And as @connieflyer says, now with this magical EL11/EL38/Euforia combo, there really isn't any need to go searching for something more 'exotic'...with decent ancillary gear, this setup can surely stand up against anything else vastly more expensive lol!!...CHEERS!...CJ

 

[hypnos1]

Hi guys...just a quickie on the EL11 tube.

For anyone interested, as @Scutey mentioned a while back, there are a few on ebay.de (German) : https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_fro....TR4.TRC2.A0.H0.XEL11.TRS0&_nkw=EL11&_sacat=0 , but not many I personally would be excited about at present.

There's one remaining Valvo (2 earlier on!) that looks quite nice...with another that has just been added for auction - finishing 3rd March.

I really like the look of a 'Telefunken' with blue logo...stated lower down as Valvo made (but looks pure TFK to me!)...and seems a very good price indeed. The 'Tungsrams' - with red band - don't seem to be so popular with the cognoscenti, along with Tesla versions. I had both these, and they didn't look as well constructed as the TFK/RFT/Valvo, so didn't even bother converting them lol!

A note on the TFKs : those that have a 'milky' appearance to the coating seem to be more prone to problems, for some reason...and which I myself found, both with the 11 and the 12. A close study of the 'nicer', cleaner grey coating of another TFK, RFT or Valvo will give an idea of what I mean.

But whatever you go for, as there are a few 'dodgy' tubes out there - and as I mentioned previously - if one should display any obvious noises that don't disappear completely after a short while, or a couple of on/offs (assuming the pins are scrupulously clean!), then it is faulty and should be returned as such ASAP.
Regardless of whether there's a time limit on the ebay listing for 'returns' - or none! - you have excellent ebay protection for faulty items, and will back you for refund of cost, plus shipping...no question!! I personally have had to have them step in on several occasions due to recalcitrant sellers, and they resolved in my favour very quickly indeed. Just make sure to inform the seller via ebay messages on all details regarding the problem, and reasonable measures taken to make sure there is indeed a fault...then if the seller tries to be awkward/unreasonable, ebay will probably find the case in your favour without fuss....CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Whatever you do, don't fill the pockets of the Italian ebayer trying to charge 87 Euros, plus 15 for shipping for one RFT tube...outrageous!!

 

[attmci]

Thanks for that attmci...good to know.

And would repeat that as far as I myself am concerned, these sorts of things should only ever be used if absolutely necessary, lol!!

It's a pain in the asc to replace broken sockets. If someone tube rolling like crazy, he/she definitely needs some. I used it on tube tester, and my amp as well. But you guys are using tube adapters all the time, so I agreed with your suggestions.
I just broke one of these cheap socket protectors the other day. And found the manufacturer of these sockets had used materials like recycled plastic to make the base.

 

[hypnos1]

Hello,

I'm still skeptical regarding the 6SN7+EL38 combo some folks here seem to enjoy...
Although it may sound impressive with a relatively sensitive headset (HD800(s)) at relatively low levels, it ends up with high distorsions on my side when the volume knob needs to exceed 10 o'clock (to drive my Kennerton for example, or as preamp of my SS amp).

Waiting for my EL11s and adapters to arrive (I now follow @hypnos1 and @connieflyer almost blindly), and not fully convinced by the EL38 as drivers, I'm currently trying this:

EL12Spez as drivers, and EL38 as powers.

For now, after just a couple of hours of listening, I find this pairing more enjoyable than EL32+EL38, or EL38+EL38.

Has anyone else ever tried this ?

Regards,

Erwan.

Hi Erwan.

As promised, I finally got to try the EL12 Spezials as drivers for my Dario/Philips 'balloon' 38 power combo.

Although one really needs quite a few listening sessions before a full and proper assessment of tube pairing can be made, my countless trials of EL tubes have managed to give me a 'sixth' sense which doesn't normally let me down lol! .

Anyway, first off I must say that the Spez/38 combo (in my system) sounds extremely good! They definitely perform better in this particular role than as powers...(and they're one mighty power tube!! ).
However, my initial 'sense' was later confirmed when I eventually changed back to my mesh plate EL11/EL3NG pairing...ie. that there were a few elements that already didn't quite match up to the latter :

1. The 11(s) give a more cohesive presentation, with a clearer/'cleaner' sound.

2. Balance between instruments and voice seems more 'accurate'...noticeable especially in a regular test track that although being a relatively 'simple' number - Joni Mitchell's 'A case of You' - is fiendishly difficult to reproduce without the plain guitar backing sounding very (too) 'detached' from her glorious voice. The Spezs just couldn't pull off this trick as well as the 11s.
Having said that, her voice - along with other female singers - was delivered with every bit as much fullness and emotion as the 11s...if not a tiny bit more!!

3. Soundstage is more expansive in the 11s...with more 'holographic' imagery.

4. Bass sounds deeper in the Spezs, but the 11s show better detail and control...just as they do compared to 38s as drivers. Tonal range also extends further in the 11s - highlighted by strings especially. Guitar, violin and cello have that bit more richness and complexity to their tone...which carries right through with slightly better decay.

These are just the main differences I detected from a few hours' comparison...more complex orchestral, electronic and massed voice music (not to mention piano) would have given an even better picture of course, but I didn't honestly think it worthwhile to continue much further with this trial...the outcome - for me - was already easily determined : my own particular EL11/EL3NG combo outperformed the Spezials by a good margin...and in my system, of course.

Given the 'standard' EL11 is very similar indeed to my mesh-plated versions, I do not actually see why the results would be all that much different. And so it will be very interesting to see just what you yourself find with a similar comparison, and in your own system....can't wait lol! ...CHEERS!...CJ

Edit...ps...I must repeat that just as I rated the EL11 in the past above any other tube as driver (in our amps), it is now taken to even greater heights when partnering the EL38 as powers...quite incredible!

 

[hypnos1]

Well @Scutey and @connieflyer ...I honestly thought my own aahhh moments were now relegated to usual listening lol ...wrong again!!

After yet another of them yesterday, with the EL11/EL3NG drivers to the Dario/earlier Philips 'balloon' EL38 powers - ie. Dire Straits and 'Love Over Gold' from the album of the same name...WOW!!, I thought I'd just see what would happen if I changed the Dario for my other old Philips/Mullard. These 2 together as powers previously gave too much bass emphasis, so wasn't too hopeful.
Well, to cut a long story short(er!), this wasn't just another aahhh moment, it was a eureka one! Back came the sub-bass that the EL11s as drivers (very) slightly diminish...but even more so!! And this time without losing any detail or control/balance whatsoever...similarly with the lower/mid-mids. And treble as sweet as could be - but still with nice 'sparkle', extension and wonderful clarity. Holographic soundstage remained just the same...thankfully! Plus, voice positioning came back a bit closer, and with that extra something - especially for female voice - that the EL12 Spezials delivered. What more can one ask for lol?!

I wasn't really prepared for this, nor expecting such a bass and mids without having to pay a price elsewhere (especially in higher frequencies and soundstage)...so this was a combination not only of aahh and eureka, but also of slight shock and yet more disbelief......

And so cf and @barontan2418 , I can only hope you manage a miracle and get your old'uns behaving soon...then give these a try with EL11 drivers yourselves!

Just to clarify, these EL38s I'm talking/raving about are the early Philips/Mullard version, with extra large glass envelope; black coating and black plates, but without silver band and ceramic grid post insulators. Although the Philips/Darios with silver band and internal coating still perform slightly better than the later clear glass EL38/CV450, the older tubes have that incredible bass etc that I just described, and that I have never before heard come out of headphones lol! ...(of any sort, and from any hp gear).
So keep your eyes peeled for any that might just miraculously appear...but remember that they can be more than usually prone to problems, and that any signs of misbehaving that persevere (as described in past posts, and with caveats) will probably indicate a faulty tube that must be returned as such ASAP, alas .

Anyway guys, I shall finish by wishing y'all continued aahhh moments...not just old(?!) and new to these particular tubes in Euforia, but whichever take your fancy......CHEERS!...CJ

 

[barontan2418]

Well @Scutey and @connieflyer ...I honestly thought my own aahhh moments were now relegated to usual listening lol ...wrong again!!

After yet another of them yesterday, with the EL11/EL3NG drivers to the Dario/earlier Philips 'balloon' EL38 powers - ie. Dire Straits and 'Love Over Gold' from the album of the same name...WOW!!, I thought I'd just see what would happen if I changed the Dario for my other old Philips/Mullard. These 2 together as powers previously gave too much bass emphasis, so wasn't too hopeful.
Well, to cut a long story short(er!), this wasn't just another aahhh moment, it was a eureka one! Back came the sub-bass that the EL11s as drivers (very) slightly diminish...but even more so!! And this time without losing any detail or control/balance whatsoever...similarly with the lower/mid-mids. And treble as sweet as could be - but still with nice 'sparkle', extension and wonderful clarity. Holographic soundstage remained just the same...thankfully! Plus, voice positioning came back a bit closer, and with that extra something - especially for female voice - that the EL12 Spezials delivered. What more can one ask for lol?!

I wasn't really prepared for this, nor expecting such a bass and mids without having to pay a price elsewhere (especially in higher frequencies and soundstage)...so this was a combination not only of aahh and eureka, but also of slight shock and yet more disbelief......

And so cf and @barontan2418 , I can only hope you manage a miracle and get your old'uns behaving soon...then give these a try with EL11 drivers yourselves!

Just to clarify, these EL38s I'm talking/raving about are the early Philips/Mullard version, with extra large glass envelope; black coating and black plates, but without silver band and ceramic grid post insulators. Although the Philips/Darios with silver band and internal coating still perform slightly better than the later clear glass EL38/CV450, the older tubes have that incredible bass etc that I just described, and that I have never before heard come out of headphones lol! ...(of any sort, and from any hp gear).
So keep your eyes peeled for any that might just miraculously appear...but remember that they can be more than usually prone to problems, and that any signs of misbehaving that persevere (as described in past posts, and with caveats) will probably indicate a faulty tube that must be returned as such ASAP, alas .

Anyway guys, I shall finish by wishing y'all continued aahhh moments...not just old(?!) and new to these particular tubes in Euforia, but whichever take your fancy......CHEERS!...CJ

Hi h1/CJ
I've been running in my old balloon 38's in Euforia using EL12N's as drivers until the 4 Valvo's I have on order arrive. I believe the 12N to be s very good tube for the low cost and to me it covers all bases, good soundstage, bass, and treble with my HD800. Hopefully the Valvo 11's will take it yet one step further..
Elise is running on Adzam EL11 and brown base 38's and also sounding great. It's taken some time but I feel very close to the end game. Thanks all for help and advice on the way.

 

[Scutey]

Well @Scutey and @connieflyer ...I honestly thought my own aahhh moments were now relegated to usual listening lol ...wrong again!!

After yet another of them yesterday, with the EL11/EL3NG drivers to the Dario/earlier Philips 'balloon' EL38 powers - ie. Dire Straits and 'Love Over Gold' from the album of the same name...WOW!!, I thought I'd just see what would happen if I changed the Dario for my other old Philips/Mullard. These 2 together as powers previously gave too much bass emphasis, so wasn't too hopeful.
Well, to cut a long story short(er!), this wasn't just another aahhh moment, it was a eureka one! Back came the sub-bass that the EL11s as drivers (very) slightly diminish...but even more so!! And this time without losing any detail or control/balance whatsoever...similarly with the lower/mid-mids. And treble as sweet as could be - but still with nice 'sparkle', extension and wonderful clarity. Holographic soundstage remained just the same...thankfully! Plus, voice positioning came back a bit closer, and with that extra something - especially for female voice - that the EL12 Spezials delivered. What more can one ask for lol?!

I wasn't really prepared for this, nor expecting such a bass and mids without having to pay a price elsewhere (especially in higher frequencies and soundstage)...so this was a combination not only of aahh and eureka, but also of slight shock and yet more disbelief......

And so cf and @barontan2418 , I can only hope you manage a miracle and get your old'uns behaving soon...then give these a try with EL11 drivers yourselves!

Just to clarify, these EL38s I'm talking/raving about are the early Philips/Mullard version, with extra large glass envelope; black coating and black plates, but without silver band and ceramic grid post insulators. Although the Philips/Darios with silver band and internal coating still perform slightly better than the later clear glass EL38/CV450, the older tubes have that incredible bass etc that I just described, and that I have never before heard come out of headphones lol! ...(of any sort, and from any hp gear).
So keep your eyes peeled for any that might just miraculously appear...but remember that they can be more than usually prone to problems, and that any signs of misbehaving that persevere (as described in past posts, and with caveats) will probably indicate a faulty tube that must be returned as such ASAP, alas .

Anyway guys, I shall finish by wishing y'all continued aahhh moments...not just old(?!) and new to these particular tubes in Euforia, but whichever take your fancy......CHEERS!...CJ

Good hear h1, seems like you're having a great time with those EL11/EL3NG, I'd just like to say I'm not at all jealous! . Well following on from my ahh moment with Holst's The Planets, like you yesterday I had a WOW with Dire Straits too, this time though with Tunnel of Love, from Making Movies, I was so surprised when the track started I gave a little jump of surprise!, it's so well produced, (pretty much like all DS albums), you can feel the pluck of individual strings on Mark Knopfler's guitar, magic!, these EL11/EL38 are defintely a "pinnacle" combo, just can't wait to try them in my Euforia!.

 

[hypnos1]

Hi h1/CJ
I've been running in my old balloon 38's in Euforia using EL12N's as drivers until the 4 Valvo's I have on order arrive. I believe the 12N to be s very good tube for the low cost and to me it covers all bases, good soundstage, bass, and treble with my HD800. Hopefully the Valvo 11's will take it yet one step further..
Elise is running on Adzam EL11 and brown base 38's and also sounding great. It's taken some time but I feel very close to the end game. Thanks all for help and advice on the way.

Yes bt...the EL12N certainly is extremely good for little money, but does seem to perform differently according to one's system lol . Hopefully you should indeed notice a step up - or two! - with the EL11s in place...but hey, it's not compulsory!! . Hope also your old 38s keep behaving themselves?!

ps. Glad you're liking the combo in Elise also...

Good hear h1, seems like you're having a great time with those EL11/EL3NG, I'd just like to say I'm not at all jealous! . Well following on from my ahh moment with Holst's The Planets, like you yesterday I had a WOW with Dire Straits too, this time though with Tunnel of Love, from Making Movies, I was so surprised when the track started I gave a little jump of surprise!, it's so well produced, (pretty much like all DS albums), you can feel the pluck of individual strings on Mark Knopfler's guitar, magic!, these EL11/EL38 are defintely a "pinnacle" combo, just can't wait to try them in my Euforia!.

Glad you're still having aahhh moments, Scutey...I'm pretty sure there'll be a good few more as you revisit old favourites! . And yes, Mark Knopfler's guitars never sounded so good...this combo can certainly bring out extra magic from electric as well as acoustic instruments. I myself have a newfound extra respect for a lot of 'New Age' electronic music...especially when combined with acoustic - such as Andreas Vollenweider/ Mike Oldfield/Mannheim Steamroller. It responds extremely well to this EL11/38 combo, bringing a wonderful richness to the sound....which will be even greater in Euforia, I assure you!! .

ps. I shall try once more to seek out more of the black glass, mesh plate Valvo EL11 and Australian Philips EL3NG...but must admit I haven't seen any more in over a year now alas!

 

[Scutey]

ps. I shall try once more to seek out more of the black glass, mesh plate Valvo EL11 and Australian Philips EL3NG...but must admit I haven't seen any more in over a year now alas!

You never know h1, persistence often pays off, although I must admit a year without a sniff is a long time, failing that If we all had positive thoughts, by sheer will some might appear! .

 

[Johnnysound]

Hey, even H1 is experimenting again with drivers for the EL38s...interesting. I am waiting for a new (fancy) silver fuse for Euforia, but in the meantime have had quite a good time rolling pre tubes in my int/power amp, trying to find the best “sinergy” with the EL38s...and enjoying all types of music.

The 38s are the best powers I have tried in my amp, and that includes (among others) vintage EL34 Mullards, Siemens, top notch Genalex KT77 reissues, Tung Sol KT150s... all excellent tubes on their own right, but the 38s are something quite special: powerful yet relaxed, transparent, revealing, and extremely extended.

What I hear from this power quartet is the sound of a classic British tube of the highest caliber, with the lovely midrange warmth of the EL34, but clearly superior in the bass, wide open, big, dynamic, and seemingly unlimited in the highs. Add to this absolutely great 3D qualities...a truly enjoyable, sweet sounding, eminently musical tube.

Not “neutral” of course, the sound is definitely on the warm side (as a proper British tube should be !) but this is nicely balanced by their uncommon ability to sing at the tune of the drivers. Something I call sensitivity (for lack of a better word) that allows the 38s to reproduce very accurately the sonic signature of the drivers. Anyway, in my experience you need the very best drivers, not only the ones that sound good, but also able to really control them.

In my very different application the TFKs 12AX7 were very good at that...the 38s sounded precise, cool, very “German” if you want...not exactly my cup of tea, but you got the point. Some of the best for me (so far) were balanced, “linear”, accurate drivers with just a touch of warmth...but the book is still certainly open.

My guess is that tubes like the ST EL32 (well burned in, please !) would work nicely as drivers of the EL38s in Euforia...

 

[connieflyer]

H, just wanted lt let you know, after taping up the offending micro phonic-noisy tubes, I have the EL38 balloon tubes and the El 11 one a mesh plate, now working to perfection. Seems this silcone tape has helped out in this case, lucked out!

 

[mordy]

H, just wanted lt let you know, after taping up the offending micro phonic-noisy tubes, I have the EL38 balloon tubes and the El 11 one a mesh plate, now working to perfection. Seems this silcone tape has helped out in this case, lucked out!

Hi CF,
Glad to hear that the silicone tape fixed your microphonics problem!
I chanced upon this information on a YouTube video (can't even find it now) where somebody fixed problems with metal enclosure tubes and decided to try it on glass envelope tubes with good results.
Also a very cost effective tweak - a little roll of 36" lasts many tubes and costs less than $2 shipped (if you have the patience to wait for a shipment from China).

 

[connieflyer]

Now that I know the tape worked, I will have to re-apply more tape and make it look nice and neat. I ordered one from China, ORDER DATE Jan 27, 2019, made it to China customs Feb 2, and still has not cleared their customs. Very cheap, but got tired of waiting, got one from Amazon.

 

[mordy]

My experience was that one band of tape was enough and I did not find that applying more tape changed anything. Perhaps two bands will help on a large tube - mainly used it on 6SN7 size tubes.
It is easy enough to apply the tape but a little tricky to make it look nice and even.
Please let us know what your experiences are in applying more tape. I also tried applying tape to the junction of the base and glass together, but I think that applying to somewhere in the middle of the glass envelope worked the best.