[OctavianH]

Thank you OctavianH for a clear and very helpful reply! Is it fair to say that none of the above variations in tube choice have a great impact on heat generation?. Also, if I were to to bro just driver or power I've been told the driver is more impact full on sound signature but would appreciate your thoughts on this as well..

I hope my questions will be more informed and experience based in the weeks and months after I received my app next week, and I'm grateful for this community as a place to learn from the vast experiences of others.

Thank you again for a terrific reply. You packed a lot of key information in a concise post and it is appreciated.

I would say the amount of heat is direct proportional with the current passing through those tubes. Or at least this is how I understand it. So if you use 6SN7 + 6AS7 you will generate more heat than using for example 4 x EL32 (both drivers and powers). But both configurations should be fine since the amp supports up to 6.5A and therefore should be fine also with that amount of heat coming through them.

Regarding the impact on sound signature, I usually think that the output tubes have a bigger impact on lower frequencies and the drivers are somehow taking care of the rest. But I do not really know if this is an assumption or it really has an electrical explanation.
Please also be aware that I never tried Elise with stock tubes since I already owned some when buying it. So I have no idea how the stock tubes sound... But I have here a pair of 6H8C which they usually ship as powers, as far as I know, and they are quite OK... even if they are not exactly my cup of tea.

But please take my post with a grain of salt since this are pure "speculations" based on how I perceive things.

 

[LoryWiv]

I would say the amount of heat is direct proportional with the current passing through those tubes. Or at least this is how I understand it. So if you use 6SN7 + 6AS7 you will generate more heat than using for example 4 x EL32 (both drivers and powers). But both configurations should be fine since the amp supports up to 6.5A and therefore should be fine also with that amount of heat coming through them.

Regarding the impact on sound signature, I usually think that the output tubes have a bigger impact on lower frequencies and the drivers are somehow taking care of the rest. But I do not really know if this is an assumption or it really has an electrical explanation.
Please also be aware that I never tried Elise with stock tubes since I already owned some when buying it. So I have no idea how the stock tubes sound... But I have here a pair of 6H8C which they usually ship as powers, as far as I know, and they are quite OK... even if they are not exactly my cup of tea.

But please take my post with a grain of salt since this are pure "speculations" based on how I perceive things.

Understood and appreciated.

 

[mordy]

I'm reviewing this thread in anticipation of my Elise being delivered next week. Quick question about the combo you reference above which is is its heat generation about the same as the stock tubes or different? I've read some info that suggests tube rolling can make a big difference in heat as well as sound sig..
We often have little grandchildren at the house I'm wondering if great sound and perhaps less than 300ﾟ C is a holy grail we can actually achieve. Also thinking of getting some type of square metal mesh to set around the the 4 tubes that won't obstruct heat dissipation but protect little fingers. Does anyone have experience trying that or similar approach?

Thanks

Hi LW,
The tubes can get quite hot, especially the 2.5A power tubes, and you can easily burn your fingers on them.
Perhaps you can place the amp on a shelf higher up so that little fingers cannot reach the tubes. (As a matter of fact, somebody just bought a used Elise and sold it because of worries that little children would get too close.)
A lot of tube amps have wire cages, although I haven't seen any Elise/Euforia with them, but it should not be too difficult to make something to fit over the tubes.
Heat buildup is a problem with electronics, and the Elise/Euforia require adequate ventilation. By adding socket savers and a little fan pulling hot air away from the amp you can significantly reduce the temperature of the chassis, but some tubes still get very hot.

 

[LoryWiv]

Delete.

 

[LoryWiv]

Thanks, @mordy . Just starting to learn about sockets savers, do they degrade the sound at all and even if not, is their primary effect to minimize transmission of the tubes' heat generation to the chassis?. In other words, they don't reduce the heat of the tubes themselves, correct? Thanks for offering your knowledge to this OTL newbie.

 

[mordy]

Thanks, @mordy . Just starting to learn about sockets savers, do they degrade the sound at all and even if not, is their primary effect to minimize transmission of the tubes' heat generation to the chassis?. In other words, they don't reduce the heat of the tubes themselves, correct? Thanks for offering your knowledge to this OTL newbie.

Good questions! I have had very inexpensive socket savers (around $3) that did degrade the sound so I would say to go with better ones - around $10-15.
The original idea of socket savers, as the name indicates, was to prevent the tube sockets from wearing out from frequent changes; the heat reduction is a secondary function.
The tubes heat up the same with the socket savers, but the heat does not transfer to the chassis to the same extent. I use an old 4" PC fan hooked up to a 12V power supply to draw away hot air from the air in my equipment rack - lowers the temperature a good 10 degrees.

 

[DecentLevi]

Hi @LoryWiv, welcome again. In addition to the current one and the "new" Elise thread with almost 900 pages:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread.782754/

There's also the Feliks Audio Tube Amps thread created by Until Then:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-tube-amps.854783/

The most active F.A. thread is the Euforia thread as you've already seen, and we can help you there too with anything. The dearly departed starter of this current thread Pctazhp leaves an empty space behind in his passing.

 

[Scutey]

A belated welcome @LoryWiv from me, can't add much to what has already been very well put by @OctavianH and others, I found the best thing is to get used to the stock tubes first and then start researching other tubes, one think I would mention, if you are concerned about heat build up in the chassis then the coolest running tubes are the EL type, won't say any more than that for now as it can be a bit of an overload at first, anyway, hope you enjoy your Elise, it's a cracking amp .

 

[LoryWiv]

A belated welcome @LoryWiv from me, can't add much to what has already been very well put by @OctavianH and others, I found the best thing is to get used to the stock tubes first and then start researching other tubes, one think I would mention, if you are concerned about heat build up in the chassis then the coolest running tubes are the EL type, won't say any more than that for now as it can be a bit of an overload at first, anyway, hope you enjoy your Elise, it's a cracking amp .

Appreciate the welcome @Scutey!

 

[OctavianH]

I would like to add only that PATIENCE is the key to really understand and appreciate this amp at its true value, and this is valid for all F.A models. Unfortunately, I am the wrong example, because I wanted to learn and experience too much as fast as possible and never waited enough for each combo to burn in and start to shine. But I will soon draw a line, make a step back and re-evaluate my findings. In the meantime I will put here a useful link for beginners about some of the "famous" tubes which can be used also in Elise:
https://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=663.msg30393#msg30393
Here are some nice descriptions about the main output types which work also on Elise. Of course, the EL family is missing, but anyway it is a good read.

 

[LoryWiv]

Here are some nice descriptions about the main output types which work also on Elise. Of course, the EL family is missing, but anyway it is a good read.

Fantastic, short of quitting my job it may take me a while to catch up on all of this reading homework but I'm really grateful for all of the resources. I also hear the message loud and clear to let my stock tubes burn in and get to know the amp before rolling too quickly to the next shiny, glowing object.

 

[LoryWiv]

Just put the Feliks Elise into my chain driving Auteur, retired the iFi iCan Pro. For any Auteur owners who think it's bass shy, pairing with this OTL tube amp quickly dispels that myth. Definitely more bass presence, well-controlled and of excellent quality with no bloom or bleed, perfect quantity for my preference. Other 1st impressions are that Elise-Auteur combination is highly musical and engaging, with forward and euphonic mids. It is also quite forgiving of lower quality recordings. Potential trade-offs versus iCan Pro driving Auteur so far include less extended treble and smaller stage width / height (depth seems excellent), and perhaps a touch less micro-detail retrieval. Of course the Elise only has < 5 hours on it, stock tubes, and I'm looking forward to burn in, assessing for changes, and eventually, perhaps some tube rolling.

 

[OctavianH]

@LoryWiv It it is not a confidential information what serial number has your Elise?

 

[Wheel Hoss]

Just put the Feliks Elise into my chain driving Auteur, retired the iFi iCan Pro. For any Auteur owners who think it's bass shy, pairing with this OTL tube amp quickly dispels that myth. Definitely more bass presence, well-controlled and of excellent quality with no bloom or bleed, perfect quantity for my preference. Other 1st impressions are that Elise-Auteur combination is highly musical and engaging, with forward and euphonic mids. It is also quite forgiving of lower quality recordings. Potential trade-offs versus iCan Pro driving Auteur so far include less extended treble and smaller stage width / height (depth seems excellent), and perhaps a touch less micro-detail retrieval. Of course the Elise only has < 5 hours on it, stock tubes, and I'm looking forward to burn in, assessing for changes, and eventually, perhaps some tube rolling.

Didn’t you post the exact same thing in the Auteur thread?

I understand wanting to get different feedback from different people, but double-posting these brag shots seems like fishing for likes, which to me isn’t in the spirit of HF.

But what do I know?

 

[LoryWiv]

I understand wanting to get different feedback from different people, but double-posting these brag shots seems like fishing for likes, which to me isn’t in the spirit of HF. But what do I know?

I am sure you know a lot, but in this case you are wrong. My reason is that I noted that while Elise is the "proper" thread the activity in Euforia thread is far greater and some of the veterans there indicated Elise posts are fine. The Auteur post was to address the Auteur-Elise synergy in case other Auteur owners were interested, not trolling for likes.

However, you are right that double posting, even if well-intended, is to be avoided, Others have informed me in more constructive way than you did. Going forward I will avoid double-posting.

Best.