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Feliks Audio Elise Impressions Thread – a New Start (please read first post for summary)

Discussion in 'Headphone Amps (full-size)' started by pctazhp, Jul 7, 2016.
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  1. aqsw
    I could not get rid of my 5998s fast enough. They were nos, but I could not turn my Elise past 1 o'clock without getting distortion.
    Glad they are gone.
     
  2. connieflyer
    Never had a problem like that. Are you using this as a preamp or headphone amp?
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  3. myphone
    Have been lucky with 5998 and 6AS7/6080 tubes in DV 336 (since 2005) and Eufornia (since 2017). All have been running smoothly.

    I conditioned all tubes with heater on only for at least 3 days before use, a trick learned from "Atma-sphere OTL amp" 20 years ago. AS amps use many 6AS7 tubes. One set of tubes has lasted > 10 years in my AS amps.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  4. OctavianH
    I use Elise for almost 2 years and in the past I used also the Little Dot MKII but I never had any problems with tubes. I always wondered how many hours will last a pair of 5998 in normal usage like for example our amps.
     
  5. Scutey
    Well I've never found the DT 1990 wanting in any area, I would not call it my end game but I'm very happy with them, as to whether they are better than the T1, like you say, it's far too subjective, but I do know they pair very well with both Elise and Euforia :dt880smile:.
     
  6. OctavianH
    I have the DT 1990 PRO on a "mental wishlist" but I try to keep myself out of mentalism :k701smile: If I own already 2 pairs of T1 and a pair of T5p I doubt I really need another pair. I have not used my HD600 for almost 2 years so I put them for sale. If I buy a new pair I will end on using only the T1s and keep them in the collection only for reputation and this is a bad investment.

    Anyway, I started yesterday a double burn-in process. The second pair of T1 and the new interconnects made from Silver Sonic DH Labs Air Matrix cable with some ETI Nexus connectors. I have to admit that from time to time I stop and realize I have no idea what is really happening here, with this combo of cables and new headphones evolving in an, at least, strange way of good and bad experiences. But I know what animal dwells inside T1 and I have to admit that the combo surprises me from time to time. The tubes used are the "usual" Psvane CV181T2 with a pair of Tung Sol 5998 and the burn in is done by the best band in the world.

    [​IMG]

    I have to admit that the bells from the beginning of the Black Sabbath song sounded incredible refined, and this is not a job of the T1 alone. I think I will soon have a new revelation and this might be the Silver Sonic Air Matrix of DH Labs from USA. But I am here on a road of 100 hours at least. When I finish with these I'll check on you guys to see on what EL* tubes you are into and maybe try a pair.
     
    Scutey likes this.
  7. Scutey
    Good luck burning in those hp's/cables, I always enjoy the process of burning in new gear, very much a journey of discovery, oh and as for Black Sabbath being "the best band in the world" I won't disagree! :metal:.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  8. UntilThen
    We have Black Sabbath fans here do we? :L3000: Me too !

    But I'll play you Temple of the King.

     
    Scutey and OctavianH like this.
  9. OctavianH
    The only problem here, in this mess I've myself put into, is that I have no idea if the HP or cables are evolving. I guess both somehow. And I'll reach a new level of chaos when the old pair of HPs will come from the service. Then I'll have a new pair of T1, a repaired pair and a new cable. And all will sound different than I'm used to. Anyway I'll keep these cables for a while since I've sold all my other interconnects. If in 100 hours they will not meet my expectations I will start to search for others. This hobby is a kind of an endless search...

    @UntilThen Your cover song reminds me about "Man on the Silver Mountain". And we all know what a man on a silver mountain has to do: interconnect cables and Elise adapters. :beyersmile:

     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
    UntilThen and Scutey like this.
  10. Scutey
    Good to know there is more of us on the dark side of the force! :metal:.
     
  11. OctavianH
    It seems I've destroyed the "minimal" design of F.A, and oh boy how long I've waited for this.

    [​IMG]

    With this occasion I realized I listen mosty around 20-25% of the volume with Qutest Output Level set to 3V. There are 21 markings, so 20 intervals which means 1 interval = 5%. Long live the White Permanent Marker!
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
    connieflyer and Scutey like this.
  12. Scutey
    That's a clever Idea! :thumbsup:
     
  13. LoryWiv
    I'm reviewing this thread in anticipation of my Elise being delivered next week. Quick question about the combo you reference above which is is its heat generation about the same as the stock tubes or different? I've read some info that suggests tube rolling can make a big difference in heat as well as sound sig..
    We often have little grandchildren at the house I'm wondering if great sound and perhaps less than 300゚ C is a holy grail we can actually achieve. Also thinking of getting some type of square metal mesh to set around the the 4 tubes that won't obstruct heat dissipation but protect little fingers. Does anyone have experience trying that or similar approach?

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
  14. OctavianH
    Hi,

    First of all welcome, I am glad that the Elise community is increasing. I will try to answer to your questions even if I am a newbie here compared to others. I use Elise since February 2018 and I have the MK2 model no. 145.
    The heat generation is based on tube parameters and the amount of current the amp is capable to use. As far as I know the rule is that Elise can be used with tubes which not exceed 6.5A in total (all 4 tubes).
    The stock tubes are 2x6SN7 as drivers (the ones in front) and 2x6AS7 as powers (or output tubes, the ones near the power transformer). The 6SN7 type are rated at 0.6A and the 6AS7 types at 2.5A which leads us to a 2x0.6+2x2.5=6.2A.
    Now regarding the temperature of the tube when the amp is in usage, I guess a tube reaches somewhere at 150C but definitely you should be careful with children or pets if you plan to let them in the vicinity of the amp.
    Since I do not have these problems in my house I never tried to add any protection.

    When I was tube rolling, because lately I stick to the same tube combo for almost 1 year, I made a small chart which might help you:

    [​IMG]

    Be aware that for some tube types you need adapters in order to be able to use them in Elise and some of the types can be plugged directly.
    For example, from what I used:
    1) drivers which work directly plugged: 6SN7, 6H8C
    2) powers which work directly plugged: 6AS7, 6H13C, 6080, 5998, 7236
    For the rest of them you will need to buy adapters from Ebay, where you can find a manufacturer which sells them at a decent price.
    The name of the seller is xulingmrs and an example of such an adapter is:
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-Gold...463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm
    Of course, you will need pairs of adapters.

    Beside the tube types from my chart, the community is using also EL38, EL39 and EL11 (which work with the same adapter as EL12N), EL12 or EL12Spez. But here I'll let others provide more details since I do not quite use these EL tubes because all are too "sweet" for me. All of these require adapter.

    EL tubes can be used in both "driver" and "power" position and many use EL11 as drivers and EL38 or EL39 as powers or you can also try EL3N / EL32 combinations. Some of us used double adapters and had 6 tubes in the same time, as long as the max current was not exceeded. An example is the 6xEL3N combo here on my amp:

    [​IMG]

    And of course, if you want to go further, but I would advise to do this only after you get some experience, you can use more powerful tubes than these ones already presented with external heating and power supply. But please do not do this unless you are sure about what you are doing because it might damage the amp.

    Elise is a very scalable amp and it reaches a very good performance when the rest of the line is on par. I have improved its performance a lot with upgraded cables, DAC, power filtering and so on.

    I hope I have provided you correct and good information as an introduction to the amp. Feel free to ask more and I am sure that I or someone else will provide you the answer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
    LoryWiv likes this.
  15. LoryWiv
    Thank you OctavianH for a clear and very helpful reply! Is it fair to say that none of the above variations in tube choice have a great impact on heat generation?. Also, if I were to roll just driver or power I've been told the driver is more impactful on sound signature but would appreciate your thoughts on this as well..

    I hope my questions will be more informed and experience based in the weeks and months after I received my app next week, and I'm grateful for this community as a place to learn from the vast experiences of others.

    Thank you again for a terrific reply. You packed a lot of key information in a concise post and it is appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
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