[CJG888]

I am looking for a reasonably-priced tube headphone amp for my desktop system (source: iPod or PC via Pro-Ject USB Box/Foobar 2000, Kimber Timbre cable), to drive Denon AD-H1001 headphones (from my portable setup - to be upgraded, possibly to Sennheiser 650s or similar in the medium term). I listen exclusively to classical (orchestral and chamber music) and acoustic jazz at moderate levels, and favour a clear, transparent sound with good dynamics and stage depth. I am considering either the Little Dot Mk III or the Darkvoice 336SE. Based on your experience, which would be more suitable? I have heard that the Darkvoice may sound "sweeter" and have greater midband transparency, but potentially suffers from a loose, overblown bass.
 
Thank you.

 

[irishsammy]

What you're describing sounds like a good instance for considering the maverick audio stuff, too. I have the A1 and it drives my Grados wonderfully. I got the raytheon tube upgrade and it cost me 250ish shipped. Its a great little amp and it even drives small speakers well.

Just a thought.

 

[DemonicLemming]

The LD MK3 is a pretty nice amp for the price, and offers a couple tube-rolling options that aren't too expensive (both the Mullards and Brimars I had for mine were $25/matched set).  I used it primarily with my old K702s; while I never really did grow into liking those headphones, the LD did a lot of nice things for them.  David Hezhe was very courteous and helpful when I purchased mine from him on ebay.
 
The Schiit Vahalla (http://schiit.com/products/valhalla/), HiFiMan EF1 (http://head-direct.com/product_detail.php?p=74), and Musical Paradise MP-301 (http://www.musicalparadise.ca/mp/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=75) may be worth looking at also, if you haven't checked them out.

 

[helluvapixel]

I'm adding my voice to the Valhalla. For $349 it's a bargain hard to beat. The amp is DEAD quiet, and has a great clean sound. I run my DACMagic to the Valhalla running my HD598. I am impressed enough that I'm thinking Lyr next. Sure you could spend more, but I find I rather spend my coin on the headphones for colouring than amps.
 
An alternative consideration is the A1 TubeMagic for $199 and as irishsammy says they offer a Raytheon tube upgrade and all for less than $300: http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/tube_magic_a1
 
 

 

[Tilpo]

I personally think that the MKIII is also definitely a good consideration. While I have no experience with the other amps mentioned in this thread, nor your current headphones, I do know that Little Dot makes excellent products for the price you pay.
I have a Little Dot MKIV SE, which is very similar to the MKIII, and I find that it is a good product at it's price. Also the customer service of Little Dot is almost unmatched by other companies, which could be something to consider.

Not trying to be a fanboy, but I think Little Dot is great, but on the other hand the both the Valhalla and the 336SE are excellent amps that are probably worth every buck they cost. The Valhalla is a bit more expensive, and might be past your budget, but this is head-fi, it is very common that people increase their budget mid-way a thread
I have also heard a lot of nice things about the Darkvoice 336SE too, so I can't really say that any of these three amps is the best.

What I'd personally do is read the respective appreciation/review threads for the MKII and the 336SE, and maybe the Valhalla if it's not over budget. Maybe that will clarify the characteristics of these amps, and make it easier to make a decision.

Finally this being your first thread I'd like to give you a warm and traditional welcome to the community,
Welcome to Head-Fi, we're sorry about your wallet.

 

[CJG888]

Thank you for the advice. As I am based in Shanghai, I will be looking at a mainland Chinese amplifier (for reasons of import duty and shipping costs), so I will be gravitating towards LD and Darkvoice.
 
Out of interest - which Mullard drivers are you using, and where did you source them? I presume the output tubes are the original Sovteks. I presume the LD Mk III is a single-ended OTL design. LD claim it is a "single ended push-pull", but this sounds like a contradiction in terms!
 
Do you know if the Darkvoice 336SE is an OTL design, or does it have output transformers?
 
 

 

[Tilpo]

Thank you for the advice. As I am based in Shanghai, I will be looking at a mainland Chinese amplifier (for reasons of import duty and shipping costs), so I will be gravitating towards LD and Darkvoice.
 
Out of interest - which Mullard drivers are you using, and where did you source them? I presume the output tubes are the original Sovteks. I presume the LD Mk III is a single-ended OTL design. LD claim it is a "single ended push-pull", but this sounds like a contradiction in terms!
 
Do you know if the Darkvoice 336SE is an OTL design, or does it have output transformers?
 
 

Single Ended Push Pull, is actually a normal term. It is not used very often, but it definitely exists (not just some marketing trick).
From what I understand (please let someone correct me if I'm wrong) it is a design where the amplifier switches between using Single Ended and Push Pull whenever either one of them is better. How this exactly works is something you should ask to the more experienced people out here.

What they could also mean is that it's an amplifier which works with Class A Push Pull, while having the output signal to be Single Ended (instead of balanced).

Maybe the following reference helps to clear something up (although Single Ended Push Pull is not actually discussed in the article)
http://www.pentalabs.com/audio_help6.html

 

[CJG888]

Thanks again. I suppose SEPP in this case simply means Class A push-pull (which is fine by me).
I have decided to go for the LD Mk. III, and am now trying to decide whether to upgrade to Beyer DT880 (600 Ohm) or Sennheiser HD600s. Any suggestions? Air, soundstage, speed and transparency are more important than deep bass!

 

[CJG888]

Es ist vollbracht!
 
In the end, I went to Media Markt in Huaihai Lu, and bought a pair of HD600s, as:
 
(i) Sennheiser seem to have better representation and service in China,
(ii) The HD600s seem more easily upgradeable (e.g. cables, earpads) than the Beyers,
(iii) At 300 Ohms, they stand a better chance of being driveable by my Meier Corda XXS when away on business, and
(iv) I took an instant liking to the sound - very "BBC monitor", similar to Harbeth or Spendor loudspeakers. Not exaggerated or impressive, just accurate. The HD650s I compared them with seemed more suited to electronic music - impressive bass extension, but not entirely realistic on simply-miked acoustic material (a bit like HD600s with added MSG).
 
The LD Mk.III is on its way from Shenzhen as I write, and the HD600s are burning in nicely on the "Headphone Out" of an old Yamaha receiver. The system as it will stand comprises: iPod 20GB (I find its DAC sounds significantly better than that of my new 160GB Classic), original Apple dock, Kimber Timbre cable (3.5mm to RCAs), Little Dot Mk.III (stock, at the moment), HD600s. Next stage will be some tube rolling (any ideas?), and maybe a new headphone cable. Ultimately, I will switch to my 160GB Classic. I already own an Onkyo ND-S1, which I use to feed a digital signal to my Opera Consonance 2.3 tube CD player at home - I will use this to drive a desktop DAC, possibly Little Dot's own, or a Yulong. Alternatively: does anyone have experience of using an NOS DAC in a similar system? Will it sound to "rolled off" in the treble?

 

[Tilpo]

Es ist vollbracht!
 
In the end, I went to Media Markt in Huaihai Lu, and bought a pair of HD600s, as:
 
(i) Sennheiser seem to have better representation and service in China,
(ii) The HD600s seem more easily upgradeable (e.g. cables, earpads) than the Beyers,
(iii) At 300 Ohms, they stand a better chance of being driveable by my Meier Corda XXS when away on business, and
(iv) I took an instant liking to the sound - very "BBC monitor", similar to Harbeth or Spendor loudspeakers. Not exaggerated or impressive, just accurate. The HD650s I compared them with seemed more suited to electronic music - impressive bass extension, but not entirely realistic on simply-miked acoustic material (a bit like HD600s with added MSG).
 
The LD Mk.III is on its way from Shenzhen as I write, and the HD600s are burning in nicely on the "Headphone Out" of an old Yamaha receiver. The system as it will stand comprises: iPod 20GB (I find its DAC sounds significantly better than that of my new 160GB Classic), original Apple dock, Kimber Timbre cable (3.5mm to RCAs), Little Dot Mk.III (stock, at the moment), HD600s. Next stage will be some tube rolling (any ideas?), and maybe a new headphone cable. Ultimately, I will switch to my 160GB Classic. I already own an Onkyo ND-S1, which I use to feed a digital signal to my Opera Consonance 2.3 tube CD player at home - I will use this to drive a desktop DAC, possibly Little Dot's own, or a Yulong. Alternatively: does anyone have experience of using an NOS DAC in a similar system? Will it sound to "rolled off" in the treble?

Tube rolling is definitely advisable for upgrading. I haven't done it myself yet, but I will do in the future.
However I remain a cable skeptic, and I strongly discourage you from buying new cables. The increase in sound quality will be minor AT BEST. In fact, I doubt the change in sound will be audible, and if you do hear a change it's probably a placebo effect.
In doubt: don't buy a cable, blind test it first (that is to say, without seeing the cable itself) to see if there is a difference.

And about the DAC, could you please restate what you mean?
From what I understand you use an Onkyo ND-S1 as a digital transport from your iPod, and you use the Opera Consonance 2.3 as a DAC? Or do you use this as a second source?
From what I understand that is high-end CD player, and it's DAC will be excellent despite being NOS.

On another note, you went to a Media Markt? Here in the Netherlands they are extremely overpriced, is that not the case in China?

 

[CJG888]

In China, the problem is slightly different. There are sources of cheaper HD600s than Media Markt (e.g. numerous "Digital Malls"), but the headphones probably won't have been made by Sennheiser.......
 
For imported gear, at least at MM you can be reasonably confident of actually getting what you have paid for (and it's still cheaper than ordering from Germany and paying the import duty)! Chinese equipment is best purchased direct from the manufacturer - however there appear to be no decent Chinese full-size headphones.
 
The ND-S1 is currently used to feed a digital signal to my CD player in my main system. I am thinking of moving it to the office, to feed a Little Dot DAC (and losing iPod capability at home). However, maybe I will keep the Onkyo at home, and use an HRT iStreamer into my desktop system instead. How does the quality of the HRT (or the Pure i20) compare with standalone DACs such as the LD?

 

[Tilpo]

In China, the problem is slightly different. There are sources of cheaper HD600s than Media Markt (e.g. numerous "Digital Malls"), but the headphones probably won't have been made by Sennheiser.......
 
For imported gear, at least at MM you can be reasonably confident of actually getting what you have paid for (and it's still cheaper than ordering from Germany and paying the import duty)! Chinese equipment is best purchased direct from the manufacturer - however there appear to be no decent Chinese full-size headphones.
 
The ND-S1 is currently used to feed a digital signal to my CD player in my main system. I am thinking of moving it to the office, to feed a Little Dot DAC (and losing iPod capability at home). However, maybe I will keep the Onkyo at home, and use an HRT iStreamer into my desktop system instead. How does the quality of the HRT (or the Pure i20) compare with standalone DACs such as the LD?

Stand-alone DAC's will probably have better sound quality, but the nice thing about a HRT iStreamer is that it is iPod compatible. If you need iPod compatibility it is a great device, otherwise it is definitely better to get stand-alone DAC.
One suggestion I could give you for a DAC would be the Audio-GD NFB-12. It's a DAC/Amp combination, however it is still an excellent device for it's price if you use as a stand-alone DAC.
I personally have one, and I can tell you that I'm impressed by the upgrade in sound quality for the amount of money I paid, even though I only use the DAC section of the amp.

On another note, I have heard lots of bad things about Little Dot's DAC's. They are not bad per se, however there are other DAC's on the market that are similarly priced and simply better in sound quality.
Another well respected budget DAC around these parts is the NuForce uDAC-2. The MSRP is $149 and it's supposed to be a very good DAC for the price.

 

[CJG888]

Audio-GD sounds like an interesting option. What do you think of the NFB-3, and how does this compare, say, with a Musical Fidelity VDAC? Another DAC I might consider is the Musiland MD-10. I have now also heard that the LD DAC is not up to the standard of their amplifiers. The LD Mk.III sounded awful out of the box, but gained both volume and definition after about 6 hours of burn-in. I assume it will need another 48 or so until it is performing properly. One thing I have noticed, is that the driver valves are extremely microphonic (you only need to touch them slightly to start them ringing). Would a change to, say, Mullard EF95s improve this?
 
The office system as it will stand then comprises: iPod 160GB Classic (AIFF), Onkyo ND-S1, DAC (TBA) via coaxial, LD Mk.III, HD600.

 

[Feynman]

What about the Bottlehead Crack? I'm running one with a pair of HD650's and its an awesome amplifier. Though the cost ended up alot more than I expected due to needing alot of new tools to build the thing.

 

[fdhfdy]

I use a little dot mk3 with my hd650s. They have really good synergy with each other.