[javahut]

Another disappointing week... with no real info about when Raven's "taking flight". At least we now know for sure "early September" ain't gonna happen.

 

[stacey]

I'd agree with that assessment. I didn't have an Odyssey unit on hand when I reviewed Raven, but we got one in the shop shortly after, and I ran a bit of a A/B/C on Raven, Odyssey, and Odin.

The really short version is, Odyssey added some more bass, and reduced some of Odin's upper mids and treble, but also lost some of Odin's imaging in the process and ended up sounding less natural. Raven doesn't have quite as much bass as Odyssey (honestly not as much less as I expected from my memory), it fixes the timbre, brings back some of the lost treble, and has a bigger more three-dimensional space and better imaging than either Odin or Odyssey.

That’s what I remembered when I listened to the prototype in Singapore. I might hang on to the Odyssey for a while since I don’t listen to high treble music that often.

 

[zoidbb]

I'd agree with that assessment. I didn't have an Odyssey unit on hand when I reviewed Raven, but we got one in the shop shortly after, and I ran a bit of a A/B/C on Raven, Odyssey, and Odin.

The really short version is, Odyssey added some more bass, and reduced some of Odin's upper mids and treble, but also lost some of Odin's imaging in the process and ended up sounding less natural. Raven doesn't have quite as much bass as Odyssey (honestly not as much less as I expected from my memory), it fixes the timbre, brings back some of the lost treble, and has a bigger more three-dimensional space and better imaging than either Odin or Odyssey.

One thing I’ve never been able to get a clear answer on is how Odyssey compares to Legend Evo. I’ve had some folks say Odyssey is just Legend Evo with an A&K label on it, some say they’re nothing alike. What’s the truth here?

 

[stephenkostas]

That’s what I remembered when I listened to the prototype in Singapore. I might hang on to the Odyssey for a while since I don’t listen to high treble music that often.

Yeah - if you like bass, don't frequently listen to music with a ton of imaging information anyway, Odyssey remains great at what it does.

One thing I’ve never been able to get a clear answer on is how Odyssey compares to Legend Evo. I’ve had some folks say Odyssey is just Legend Evo with an A&K label on it, some say they’re nothing alike. What’s the truth here?

I'll find the graphs in a minute, but my feeling was that Odyssey had a little less subbass than Legend EVO, a little more midbass, a little less midrange in general, but then more upper treble. So EVO had a tendency to bring out the low bass really well (and I've noted before that I love how it can emphasize the bass on more modern recordings with production that uses more of the low bass range, but still presents a natural bass in older recordings), but also had a nice balanced highlight to vocals/lead instruments in the upper mids. Odyssey felt a little bit more "warm" in the bass low-mids, but had less vocal presence, and a little more air/sizzle up top.

ETA: Snagged this one from twister6 - https://twister6.com/2023/02/19/in-a-snapshot-empire-ears-x-astell-kern-odyssey/

It's a bit hard to read, but pretty much lines up with my recollection of the comparison.

 

[haci]

Yeah - if you like bass, don't frequently listen to music with a ton of imaging information anyway, Odyssey remains great at what it does.

I'll find the graphs in a minute, but my feeling was that Odyssey had a little less subbass than Legend EVO, a little more midbass, a little less midrange in general, but then more upper treble. So EVO had a tendency to bring out the low bass really well (and I've noted before that I love how it can emphasize the bass on more modern recordings with production that uses more of the low bass range, but still presents a natural bass in older recordings), but also had a nice balanced highlight to vocals/lead instruments in the upper mids. Odyssey felt a little bit more "warm" in the bass low-mids, but had less vocal presence, and a little more air/sizzle up top.

ETA: Snagged this one from twister6 - https://twister6.com/2023/02/19/in-a-snapshot-empire-ears-x-astell-kern-odyssey/

It's a bit hard to read, but pretty much lines up with my recollection of the comparison.

That’s a huge dip between 400-500 Hz. While I remember being a bit recessed there, nowhere near what the graph suggests. Do you know how BCD plays into these? FYI there is a discussion going on in watercooler thread

 

[stephenkostas]

That’s a huge dip between 400-500 Hz. While I remember being a bit recessed there, nowhere near what the graph suggests. Do you know how BCD plays into these? FYI there is a discussion going on in watercooler thread

Yeah, I think those weird dips and spikes in the upper bass through low mids are related to BCD measurements. I don't think it's an actual characteristic of the sound as you would perceive it as a listener.

 

[Tristy]

Yeah - if you like bass, don't frequently listen to music with a ton of imaging information anyway, Odyssey remains great at what it does.

I'll find the graphs in a minute, but my feeling was that Odyssey had a little less subbass than Legend EVO, a little more midbass, a little less midrange in general, but then more upper treble. So EVO had a tendency to bring out the low bass really well (and I've noted before that I love how it can emphasize the bass on more modern recordings with production that uses more of the low bass range, but still presents a natural bass in older recordings), but also had a nice balanced highlight to vocals/lead instruments in the upper mids. Odyssey felt a little bit more "warm" in the bass low-mids, but had less vocal presence, and a little more air/sizzle up top.

ETA: Snagged this one from twister6 - https://twister6.com/2023/02/19/in-a-snapshot-empire-ears-x-astell-kern-odyssey/

It's a bit hard to read, but pretty much lines up with my recollection of the comparison.

Aligns with how I heard the EVO v Odyssey. Evo had more diffused vocals to my ears giving this sort of ethereal quality to them but lacked in treble extension and the holographic imaging of Odyssey. Odyssey seemed to utilise that BCD magic on the imaging making it much more holographic and clear cut to my ears, treble also extended better but odyssey came across as warmer than EVO with a fatter mid bass. Evo seemed to be a bass first IEM and used all of that BCD goodness for a more visceral and incisive sub bass but lacked ever so slightly in the other areas… a bass monster first and foremost. A lot of fun but less versatile.

 

[haci]

Yeah, I think those weird dips and spikes in the upper bass through low mids are related to BCD measurements. I don't think it's an actual characteristic of the sound as you would perceive it as a listener.

I asked gpt-4, and here is what they have to say -)

If you were to use a traditional ear or coupler simulator with a microphone to measure the frequency response of an IEM that employs both air and bone conduction, you might encounter the following anomalies:

1. **Incomplete Bass Representation**: Since bone conduction is often efficient at transmitting lower frequencies, and if any part of those vibrations couples into the air inside the ear simulator, there might be an unexpected emphasis in the bass region. However, this emphasis would not capture the full extent or quality of the bass delivered via bone conduction.

2. **Mismatched Phase Interactions**: If the bone-conducted vibrations influence the air inside the ear simulator, they might interfere with the sound from the air conduction driver. This could lead to unexpected peaks or dips in the frequency response due to phase interactions. However, this representation might be inconsistent and might not accurately reflect the listening experience.

3. **Reduced High Frequencies**: Bone conduction is generally less effective at transmitting higher frequencies compared to air conduction. While the microphone would pick up the highs from the air conduction driver, it wouldn't capture the reduced high-frequency response from the bone conduction, leading to an over-representation of high frequencies.

4. **Ambiguous Results**: The interference between the air-conducted sound and any bone-conducted vibrations that enter the air space of the simulator might lead to ambiguous or inconsistent results, especially if the measurement is repeated multiple times or with different placements.

5. **Potential Resonances**: The combination of both conduction methods and the coupling of bone-conducted vibrations into the air might introduce or amplify specific resonances, leading to unexpected peaks in the frequency response.

It's important to stress that while these anomalies can give some insights, the measurements would not provide a full or accurate representation of the IEM's performance, especially the contributions from the bone conduction driver. To get an accurate understanding, a more specialized measurement system that can capture both air-conducted and bone-conducted sound would be required.

 

[zoidbb]

That moment when GPT-4 is smarter than most popular IEM reviewers…

 

[sorrick]

One thing I’ve never been able to get a clear answer on is how Odyssey compares to Legend Evo. I’ve had some folks say Odyssey is just Legend Evo with an A&K label on it, some say they’re nothing alike. What’s the truth here?

When I first got the odyssey, I did a fairly in depth comparison to the legend evo. They are definitely not the same—they’re actually pretty noticeably different, though bass is definitely elevated in both. Hope this is helpful:

Thought I would post some more in depth Odyssey impressions now that I’ve had more listening and run in time on them. This is a long one, so apologies in advance. The TLDR is that while I was initially unimpressed and thought I’d be returning them, after some additional listening and run in time, I think they are fantastic. I was drawn to the early impressions of these as Odin-level resolution with bass closer to (but not quite emphasized as) the Legend EVOs, and I think they achieve that, although they are tuned differently than both Odin and EVO.

Some background—I bought the Odin’s and LOVED pretty much everything about them, but I always wished they had a bit more bass. I ended up getting Traillis, which despite their all BA bass and inferior bass quality, had more bass quantity and which I ultimately preferred in most other areas over the Odins. They had a wider, taller soundstage, felt more effortless, and one of the most natural tunings I’d heard–you really feel like you are in the room and not listening to a recording with them. But I’ve always wished traillis had a DD for bass and there ultimately were still times when I felt like I wanted to hear more bass from them. I got the Legend EVOs, which provided unparalleled, earth-shaking BCD-augmented bass and ended up selling the Odins afterward because I just wasn’t listening to them–the EVOs didn’t have the Odin’s resolution, but if I wanted resolution naturalness, I listened to trailli. I bought the Odyssey on the promise that they could both scratch my itch for elevated, quality bass, but without sacrificing resolution, naturalness, soundstage, and versatility of the traillis. I am happy to say that for me, they achieve this—so much so that I am going to be putting both the trailli and EVOs up for sale.

As I mentioned, I was initially disappointed with the Odysseys. While they were clearly at TOTL-tier iems from the beginning, with excellent resolution and nicely present, Odin-reminiscent treble, the bass quality seemed a bit one dimensional when compared directly to the EVOs. You felt the initial impact at the primary note, and there was a nice low rumble, but it seemed like some of the second and third order harmonics that round out the notes were missing. The mids similarly seemed like they were a little flat—the more relaxed upper mids meant that vocals were a few steps back in the mix compared to both EVO and Trailli, and the Trailli seemed to have a lot more texture. I tried a number of different tips, ultimately preferring spiral dots and clarion TRI tips, and several different cables (I most liked a hybrid gold plated silver + palladium plated silver cable I got on aliexpress to the stock Aries II cable). I went to bed after listening for about an hour and a half the first night fairly confident I’d be returning them, but I decided to let them play overnight and see whether, like I had experienced with other EE iems in the past, things opened up after they got some hours on them.

The next morning when I listened to the Odysseys, they were a bit more open, but not much different. However, after another 24ish hours of constant playing (between 30-40 hours total), when I listened to them last Saturday, things had changed and they sounded magnificent. The bass, while still at a less overall quantity than the EVO, was on par or maybe even slightly better in terms of quality—that is to say, as good as I’d ever heard. The enhanced resolution and slightly lowered bass quantity of the Odysseys compared to the EVOs gave the Odysseys’ bass enhanced texture. While the EVOs impactful subwoofer-like bass is the ultimate guilty pleasure that seemingly inexplicably avoids completely overpowering the mids and treble somehow, sometimes the sheer quantity of it sort of overwhelmed your ability to pick up on subtle textures in the bass. This textural information is all there in with the Odysseys and the result is that you have much better depth cues and a more clear image. The Odysseys bass does not sound thin to me at all, but EVO bass, beyond being higher in quantity, also sounds a bit more full and rich—the EVOs sound “bigger”. While the bass is no doubt elevated on the odysseys, for me, it is in the elevated but versatile range. It still works with everything I’ve thrown at it, from classical to rock, prog rock, alternative, indie, folk, jazz, EDM, hip-hop, ambient—you name it, it works. And to my ears the elevated bass also gives a nice grounding, dynamism, and warmth to the overall sound.

The mids also seemed to open up after some playtime—vocals are still a few steps less forward compared to EVOs, Odin, or Trailli; however, resolution and texture-wise, the mids, to my ears, are on par with trailli—so again as good as I’ve heard in a closed iem. Mids generally, and vocals specifically are more intimate and a bit ”wetter” on the Trailli compared with the Odysseys, but quality-wise, I would put them on par with one another. Comparatively, the EVO mids are forward with lower resolution giving an overall more syrupy, velvety sound. In the Odysseys, the combination of the slightly less forward vocals along with the Weapon X BCD driver gives the best sense of depth that I’ve yet heard, better than both the Trailli and EVO (and Odins from memory), while also being (again to my ears) at least as wide and tall as the Trailli. This combines to give exceptional imaging and instrument separation to the odysseys—each part exists not only in its own space left to right, but also their relative depths are clearly discernible to give a very holographic sound. The separation happens not due to excessive air around the instruments creating little islands for them, but rather by them occupying different spaces in terms of x,y, and z axes within the soundscape.

Treble on the Odysseys is definitely more present than on EVOs and have a similar effortlessness and to the trailli. They are present enough to be nicely dynamic, but never sharp or steely. Cymbal decay sounds natural and “right” to my ears. In terms of quantity, Odysseys treble is a little less than Trailli (and Odin from memory), but still nicely present. The combination of the reduced, all BA bass, more forward mids, and slightly more present treble make the Traillis overall sound brighter than odyssey, particularly when quickly switching between the two; however, beyond the obviously increased bass on the odysseys, I don’t find the overall sound significantly darker than Trailli after acclimatizing to the sound.

When comparing the Odysseys to the EVOs and Traillis, I did a combination of direct A/B testing, switching from one to other over the exact same portion of a track, which emphasizes the differences between the iems, and longer listening where I’d listen to several songs on each and then change to the next. Here are some notes from some select songs. All listening was out of my iBasso DX300 with Amp 12 (so balanced) listening to Amazon HD or Apple Music. Trailli was with its original cable, and the EVO was with an UPOCC copper cable that I prefer with it to its original genesis cable.

Sympathy for the Devil, Rolling Stones (Amazon, UltraHD). The congos, placed center right, sounded incredibly vivid and natural, with a real tactility to each hit. Also a strong tactility to drums overall. Excellent sense of image with Mick’s voice is centered both left to right and in terms of depth, guitars cente–left, bass left, and background singers to the far right. Very dynamic sounding with very natural decay on tambourines. Trailli by comparison was brighter sounding, with less kick from the drums. Compared directly to odyssey, the tambourines sounded a little poppy/crispier. Guitars sounded brighter tonally. The EVO had less information in the tambourines than either of the others. Congos and drums were very present, stong and driving. Overall sound is more full sounding but with less resolution. Odyssey wins to me.

Mike Portnoy—Acid Rain. On the Odyssey, this was the best I’d ever heard this track. Wide and deep with each instrument in its own space. Bass is strong and driving but not overpowering—the drivers keep up with the double kick drum, which sounds like a stampede, but without overpowering. Guitars bite with lots of texture. Cymbals sound very natural in decay. Really great. The Trailli puts details forward more, but seems to have less texture in the guitars (speed and timbre excellent though). Bass is present but less driving. On the EVOs you get the sense that the kick drum overpowers the track—not bleeding, but almost like it maxes out the driver and you loose definition. The overal sound is less detailed but more velvety.

Led Zeppelin, Whole Lotta Love. Trailli: cymbals sound cristaline, vocals more up front with a very wide overall soundstage. Lots of texture and strong bite in high hats and snares. Bass present but lacks rumble. Odyssey: Very three dimensional—more so than Trailli but with similar width. Bass more present and rumbly/impactful. Vocals seem to exist more in 3d space. EVO: Bass and vocals up front. Sense of a wall of bass that is almost maxing out the mixer, but vocals still cut through. Cymbals more in background although clear during drum solo. Less texture than Trailli or Odyssey.

La Luna, Ottmar Liebert (binaural recording). EVO: Strong thump from cajon. Rich, syrupy sound. Odyssey: less impact than EVO from cajon. Sense that main guitar is less forward, that the recording is happening in a larger room compared to EVO and Trailli—less intimate. Trailli: more intimate than Odyssey. Very vivid imaging. Not as deep as Odyssey, but very wide. Extremely natural timbre and lots of texture (though less thump) in cajon, guitars. Trailli wins this one.

Buena Vista Social Club, Chan Chan (ultraHD). Odyssey sounds like you are at a live performance in a small dinner club. Excellent imaging with both depth and width. Full and powerful but not sense of overly elevated bass. Lots of texture in voices. On Trailli there is less of a live feel—this sounds like you are listening to a really good recording on really good speakers. Voices are more intimate. plucking has sharper edges/emphasized detail. On the EVO, drums impacts are strongly felt. Bass is elevated, but not bloomy or overpowering to my ears. Less texture in the voices and less crisp in treble compared to the other two. Overall a fuller, more syrupy sound. Odyssey wins this one for me.

To sum up, I’m really, really liking the Odysseys. They have resolution that is effectively on par with the trailli (and Odin), as wide and deep a soundstage as I’ve heard in a closed IEM, increadibly realistic 3-dimensional imaging, and impactful and textured bass that manages to be versatile regardless of genre but doesn’t leave me wanting for more. What’s not to like/who are they not for? If you want a reference sound signature and don’t like unapologetically (but tastefully) elevated bass, look elsewhere. Similarly, while I would not call the mids recessed at all, if you want/need IEMs that present vocals up at the front in every recording, these may not be for you and I’d look to the Odins or Trailli. With Odysseys, vocals tend to have more depth (though they can be forward if it’s in the recording). While treble is nicely present with good tonality and texture—it is probably not emphasized enough for treble heads. Similarly, while bass is elevated and as high quality as I’ve ever heard, if you are looking for the ultimate in bass head iems and are willing to sacrifice some resolution, the Legend EVOs still take the bass quantity/impact crown among EE iems. The odysseys elevated bass also adds some warmth to the overall sound (although I wouldn’t describe them as a super warm iems overall—Phantoms these are not), so if you gravitate toward cooler tonality, they might not be for you. But for me—I love these things.

 

[subguy812]

Aligns with how I heard the EVO v Odyssey. Evo had more diffused vocals to my ears giving this sort of ethereal quality to them but lacked in treble extension and the holographic imaging of Odyssey. Odyssey seemed to utilise that BCD magic on the imaging making it much more holographic and clear cut to my ears, treble also extended better but odyssey came across as warmer than EVO with a fatter mid bass. Evo seemed to be a bass first IEM and used all of that BCD goodness for a more visceral and incisive sub bass but lacked ever so slightly in the other areas… a bass monster first and foremost. A lot of fun but less versatile.

This...

 

[rgpick]

Just saw the seller I purchased from updates the estimated shipping time to "late September" so at least it should still be within this month.

 

[tjzurlaaa]

Yea, I get your perspective as well. I am just jaded since I kinda know what’s up.

I can assure you if there are any delays, it’s 1000% not Jack’s fault. If anyone knew the lengths he has gone, to perfect this product and launch.. let’s just say it’s beyond humbling. He’s a better man than I because I damn sure wouldn’t have. Also, In my opinion, it’s not a lack of communication.. it’s a combo of being incredibly invested and busy with refusing to point fingers. There’s really no other way to explain the delays without doing so. Blessing and a curse type scenario I suppose.

Also, no one is more impatient than me about Raven .

I have a feeling it was Andrew from headphone shows review that delayed it lol possibly went back to the lab

 

[CL14715]

I have a feeling it was Andrew from headphone shows review that delayed it lol possibly went back to the lab

110% false.

 

[zoidbb]

I have a feeling it was Andrew from headphone shows review that delayed it lol possibly went back to the lab

His review was horseshit anyway, you literally can’t properly measure a bone conduction IEM in any meaningful way using their rig, and there is no industry standard rig or process for measuring bone conduction IEMs or any other gear for that matter.