[CL14715]

Tbh, the worst thing one can do is buy IEMs based on the graph without listening to them. Chances of you liking a sound is somewhere similar to winning a lottery. Not impossible, but highly improbable.

It is much better to read and compare all the opinions on the forum to get an idea of how smth sounds. This is how I purchased Odin. Couldn't try it, unfortunately (but if you can, you should definitely do this), but read reviews of twister, CL14715 (You were the main hype driver of Odin here man ) and others, who were kind enough to share their thoughts. And while this is not 100% method, it worked perfectly for me. Odin sounded just like I thought it would be

I couldn’t agree more. We’re all single data points that try and provide info to those who know whether or not our preferences align. I agree that I put maybe too much hype into Odin as they really left an impression on me. It’s nerve wrecking sharing such positive feedback knowing that some may inherit the hype and later disagree or have buyers remorse, whether it be FR sensitivities or other reasons. Glad it worked out for you though.

 

[AboveNBeyond]

Wasn't aware of that,maybe I should have read my NDA more closely.

There was some drama of HBB revealing Odin graph early, so i'd be careful.

Upd: he uploaded graph of Odin review sample before the release.

 

[subguy812]

There was some drama of HBB revealing Odin graph early, so i'd be careful.

Upd: he uploaded graph of Odin review sample before the release.

Oh yeah well that dude thinks he's above the law so no worries. I've had a relationship with Empire Ears for years now, it goes back to Zeus

 

[KuroKitsu]

Oh god I hope you’re joking, I wish!!

I think we'll settle for being able to demo the overwhelming majority (it not all) of Empire's wares over being paid.

True. I just like their IEM’s and really try and give honest feedback but it’s ultimately based on my preferences; subjectively. Furthermore, they have continued to push boundaries and keep putting out better products. So while it may seem like I just hype things as better than the last, it’s based on their natural progression of improving. If they dropped something that didn’t excite me, I wouldn’t represent it as such. I’m literally 1 single data point. Some people are out here acting like I’m shifting the paradigm because I appreciate the brand and their dedication to constantly improving.

I’ve also been correct in my excitement considering how wildly successful their releases have been worldwide. I’m clearly not the only one who thinks they put out some great products.

I own and review other brands IEM’s with the same enthusiasm (minus Sultan).

You cut quite a swath through the CFA and 64 threads before you settled on Empire as your permanant home, so I definitely had a sense of trepidation reading your posts back then.

The passionate might be a bit much sometimes, but I can't deny the Empire sound suits you to a T, and you're consistent about that.

Tbh, the worst thing one can do is buy IEMs based on the graph without listening to them. Chances of you liking a sound is somewhere similar to winning a lottery. Not impossible, but highly improbable.

It is much better to read and compare all the opinions on the forum to get an idea of how smth sounds. This is how I purchased Odin. Couldn't try it, unfortunately (but if you can, you should definitely do this), but read reviews of twister, CL14715 (You were the main hype driver of Odin here man ) and others, who were kind enough to share their thoughts. And while this is not 100% method, it worked perfectly for me. Odin sounded just like I thought it would be

I feel like the worse thing is both basing it on the graph and reviewers.

Nothing beats your own ears. Once you figure out what you prefer, only than do graphs become even remotely of assistance. And even then weird things can happening.

The reviewers, you have to figure out their preferences, relative to yours for their impressions to be useful.

And of course we all know you can't graph dynamics, soul, emotion, tone and so on.

Something something trying to represent 4D in 2D

 

[Shecky504]

Getting back from another wonderful SoCal CanJam experience! The Odyssey knocked it out of the park in my opinion, at least when driven by my DX320. I hear it as a mix of the Odin and EVO, it is definitely on the warm side but has excellent balance across the spectrum. I agree with the others that the low end is more pronounced than the Odin and close to EVO but perhaps a tad less. Upper mids are definitely pulled back vs. Odin but vocals sounded great and not recessed at all. The treble extends further and sounds more natural vs. EVO. The added W10 driver really pulls it all together and creates a super wide soundstage with excellent separation. I went back to demo 3-4 times over the weekend after listening to plenty of other top tier IEMs and each time it handled every genre I threw at it with ease. I did cable swap and agree with @HiFiHawaii808 that the PW Audio First Times cable kicks it up a notch. I thought the stock cable overemphasized the low end but YMMV. I’m not saying you need a First Times cable to enjoy this IEM, my Leo II also sounded great with it and I’m sure other lower priced cables will match well. The Odyssey makes for an excellent all-rounder (if you favor a warmer IEM sound) and I know I’ll be pre-ordering a pair of these!

 

[CL14715]

I think we'll settle for being able to demo the overwhelming majority (it not all) of Empire's wares over being paid.

You cut quite a swath through the CFA and 64 threads before you settled on Empire as your permanant home, so I definitely had a sense of trepidation reading your posts back then.

The passionate might be a bit much sometimes, but I can't deny the Empire sound suits you to a T, and you're consistent about that.

I appreciate the honesty. Thank you.

 

[NickMit]

It’s nerve wrecking sharing such positive feedback

Yeah, but on the other hand such impressions from smth is also valuable feedback in itself

Nothing beats your own ears.

Said the same thing in the previous comment. Totally agree. Unfortunately, sometimes there is no way to try smth before buying.

I feel like the worse thing is both basing it on the graph and reviewers.

But not with this one. In terms of audio gear, people's impressions are much more valuable than some technical graph retrieved from a random equipment

 

[Skullar]

Tbh, the worst thing one can do is buy IEMs based on the graph without listening to them. Chances of you liking a sound is somewhere similar to winning a lottery. Not impossible, but highly improbable.

It is much better to read and compare all the opinions on the forum to get an idea of how smth sounds. This is how I purchased Odin. Couldn't try it, unfortunately (but if you can, you should definitely do this), but read reviews of twister, CL14715 (You were the main hype driver of Odin here man ) and others, who were kind enough to share their thoughts. And while this is not 100% method, it worked perfectly for me. Odin sounded just like I thought it would be

Graph will tell me what kind general tuning of iem is.
Its not going to tell you how technical it is or what characteristics driver set up displays. But will you care about all the former if tuning is fundamentally not for you? I would not. And this is what graph can tell. Its not going to tell you the whole story, but it is a significant alert trigger, saying that you probably should demo first before just dumping money on it.
One key issue with graph is, that it only is really reliable if its measured into database where it can be compared to other iems that you know. Meaning that it might not be that simple to read for people who are just getting into hobby.
A primary example to above is my EVO purchase when it just went into preorders.
Graph was not available because manufacturers rarely publish one, but as i owned LX, it really was nobrainer to upgrade.
Then shortly after preorder someone get his hands on it and measures it.
Graph clearly shows a very tame upper treble region in relation to the rest of signature and it was a sudden red light to me... But there were no alternatives available so i kept it and ignored the graph.
I receive EVO weeks later and it was technically amazing ect. Most of tuning was good. Bass was good, upper mids had nice energy etc. Yet i have sold it few week later, and guess why.. yep, gutted treble ruined it for me no matter what i did.
And EVO is not the only example of me buying stuff without checking graph.


Im not writing off community impressions though as it does can help you find out about things that graph cannot show. you just need to figure out what info to take in and who from.

There are some very objective people who are experienced in this hobby and will try to give you unbiased opinion about iem even if they dont like it.
These people will be very reliable source especially if they own iems that you do.

But then, there are plenty of people who cant even tell midbass from subbass, and will only praise iems they own or will are some fanboys who are lurking in a single product thread all the time and will defend the brand even if its released a product that is generally considered a fail.
This is where you have to turn your filter on.

But anyway. I think no matter how much info we had about product. Or even if there are some red flags about product you are interested in. I think at least once we all do that illogical, spontaneous buy. Even if we feel its a fail purchase. Because audiophile curiousity is stronger.

Edit: well sure as hell i did not indend it to end up suck a wall of text

 

[SteveK27]

Graph will tell me what kind general tuning of iem is.
Its not going to tell you how technical it is or what characteristics driver set up displays. But will you care about all the former if tuning is fundamentally not for you? I would not. And this is what graph can tell. Its not going to tell you the whole story, but it is a significant alert trigger, saying that you probably should demo first before just dumping money on it.
One key issue with graph is, that it only is really reliable if its measured into database where it can be compared to other iems that you know. Meaning that it might not be that simple to read for people who are just getting into hobby.
A primary example to above is my EVO purchase when it just went into preorders.
Graph was not available because manufacturers rarely publish one, but as i owned LX, it really was nobrainer to upgrade.
Then shortly after preorder someone get his hands on it and measures it.
Graph clearly shows a very tame upper treble region in relation to the rest of signature and it was a sudden red light to me... But there were no alternatives available so i kept it and ignored the graph.
I receive EVO weeks later and it was technically amazing ect. Most of tuning was good. Bass was good, upper mids had nice energy etc. Yet i have sold it few week later, and guess why.. yep, gutted treble ruined it for me no matter what i did.
And EVO is not the only example of me buying stuff without checking graph.


Im not writing off community impressions though as it does can help you find out about things that graph cannot show. you just need to figure out what info to take in and who from.

There are some very objective people who are experienced in this hobby and will try to give you unbiased opinion about iem even if they dont like it.
These people will be very reliable source especially if they own iems that you do.

But then, there are plenty of people who cant even tell midbass from subbass, and will only praise iems they own or will are some fanboys who are lurking in a single product thread all the time and will defend the brand even if its released a product that is generally considered a fail.
This is where you have to turn your filter on.

But anyway. I think no matter how much info we had about product. Or even if there are some red flags about product you are interested in. I think at least once we all do that illogical, spontaneous buy. Even if we feel its a fail purchase. Because audiophile curiousity is stronger.

Edit: well sure as hell i did not indend it to end up suck a wall of text

Excellently well put. Couldn't have said it better

Graphs only tell a part of the story - namely the tonal characteristic relative to its tuning. But it does not indicate an iem's technical prowess when it comes to details and imaging, which is more inducive to the quality and implementations of drivers.

However, graphs are the best indicator to what consumers can expect before getting a chance to listen. Given that there is a blatant upward trend in pricing for all the totl iems, the least we could do for ourselves is look at the graphs (if provided) to make the best judgement call for ourselves.

For example, I always look first for the pinna-gain when reading into the graphs. As I like brighter and more forward upper-mids, too much compensation in this area can dissuade me from purchase without trying out a demo.

 

[Chronos]

Getting back from another wonderful SoCal CanJam experience! The Odyssey knocked it out of the park in my opinion, at least when driven by my DX320. I hear it as a mix of the Odin and EVO, it is definitely on the warm side but has excellent balance across the spectrum. I agree with the others that the low end is more pronounced than the Odin and close to EVO but perhaps a tad less. Upper mids are definitely pulled back vs. Odin but vocals sounded great and not recessed at all. The treble extends further and sounds more natural vs. EVO. The added W10 driver really pulls it all together and creates a super wide soundstage with excellent separation. I went back to demo 3-4 times over the weekend after listening to plenty of other top tier IEMs and each time it handled every genre I threw at it with ease. I did cable swap and agree with @HiFiHawaii808 that the PW Audio First Times cable kicks it up a notch. I thought the stock cable overemphasized the low end but YMMV. I’m not saying you need a First Times cable to enjoy this IEM, my Leo II also sounded great with it and I’m sure other lower priced cables will match well. The Odyssey makes for an excellent all-rounder (if you favor a warmer IEM sound) and I know I’ll be pre-ordering a pair of these!

Where will you be preordering from? They said it has to be from AK dealers or AK direct. I’m contemplating preordering it also.

Completely agree with all your impressions of it, except I think the bass is somewhere midway between evo and Odin. The Evo still has a fair but more. This will be my all arounder

 

[NickMit]

Graph will tell me what kind general tuning of iem is.
Its not going to tell you how technical it is or what characteristics driver set up displays. But will you care about all the former if tuning is fundamentally not for you? I would not. And this is what graph can tell. Its not going to tell you the whole story, but it is a significant alert trigger, saying that you probably should demo first before just dumping money on it.
One key issue with graph is, that it only is really reliable if its measured into database where it can be compared to other iems that you know. Meaning that it might not be that simple to read for people who are just getting into hobby.
A primary example to above is my EVO purchase when it just went into preorders.
Graph was not available because manufacturers rarely publish one, but as i owned LX, it really was nobrainer to upgrade.
Then shortly after preorder someone get his hands on it and measures it.
Graph clearly shows a very tame upper treble region in relation to the rest of signature and it was a sudden red light to me... But there were no alternatives available so i kept it and ignored the graph.
I receive EVO weeks later and it was technically amazing ect. Most of tuning was good. Bass was good, upper mids had nice energy etc. Yet i have sold it few week later, and guess why.. yep, gutted treble ruined it for me no matter what i did.
And EVO is not the only example of me buying stuff without checking graph.


Im not writing off community impressions though as it does can help you find out about things that graph cannot show. you just need to figure out what info to take in and who from.

There are some very objective people who are experienced in this hobby and will try to give you unbiased opinion about iem even if they dont like it.
These people will be very reliable source especially if they own iems that you do.

But then, there are plenty of people who cant even tell midbass from subbass, and will only praise iems they own or will are some fanboys who are lurking in a single product thread all the time and will defend the brand even if its released a product that is generally considered a fail.
This is where you have to turn your filter on.

But anyway. I think no matter how much info we had about product. Or even if there are some red flags about product you are interested in. I think at least once we all do that illogical, spontaneous buy. Even if we feel its a fail purchase. Because audiophile curiousity is stronger.

Edit: well sure as hell i did not indend it to end up suck a wall of text

Yeah, if you put it like this, this approach works. Because you are not just following the graphs without thinking, believing in them as the final verdict, which one cannot argue with.

If we take a newcomer on the other hand, who will come to look for IEM without listening, and think that based on the graph he/she wants bassy ones, or whatever, and just look on some graphs, it won't work for them. Because this is just a single point of data, at a certain, very specific and not particularly realistic conditions. While the real picture greatly varies by ear structure, seal that one gets and other factors. And you should never ever extrapolate and draw the line from a single point. Because there is no evidence of the linear type of linear dependence and behavior.

When you already know your stuff and tried various iems, however, you get at least some correlation between this single point and your own experience. Which you can use to get some insight. But of course, bear in mind psychoacoustics as well.

With impressions from other people, you get many points of data, which is much better. The downside is that they are less organized. Then again, you need to be careful about fanboys, but I believe head-fi community is quite genuine. So even if people disagree, it's because of individual preferences, and not that someone tries to lie or smth. So, you just need to understand which points are valid for you and which do not. Ask questions of people preferences in music, sound, etc. Everyone will try and tell you all the info.

And because you get many data points instead of a single one, this approach is more precise. Although yours works as well. So, when I wrote previously, I meant...let's call them "graph fanboys". And you should not base your opinion on any fanboy's statement. This is why I completely disagree with statements like this:

However, graphs are the best indicator to what consumers can expect before getting a chance to listen.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Getting back from another wonderful SoCal CanJam experience! The Odyssey knocked it out of the park in my opinion, at least when driven by my DX320. I hear it as a mix of the Odin and EVO, it is definitely on the warm side but has excellent balance across the spectrum. I agree with the others that the low end is more pronounced than the Odin and close to EVO but perhaps a tad less. Upper mids are definitely pulled back vs. Odin but vocals sounded great and not recessed at all. The treble extends further and sounds more natural vs. EVO. The added W10 driver really pulls it all together and creates a super wide soundstage with excellent separation. I went back to demo 3-4 times over the weekend after listening to plenty of other top tier IEMs and each time it handled every genre I threw at it with ease. I did cable swap and agree with @HiFiHawaii808 that the PW Audio First Times cable kicks it up a notch. I thought the stock cable overemphasized the low end but YMMV. I’m not saying you need a First Times cable to enjoy this IEM, my Leo II also sounded great with it and I’m sure other lower priced cables will match well. The Odyssey makes for an excellent all-rounder (if you favor a warmer IEM sound) and I know I’ll be pre-ordering a pair of these!

We heard it the same way.

 

[Shecky504]

Where will you be preordering from? They said it has to be from AK dealers or AK direct. I’m contemplating preordering it also.

Completely agree with all your impressions of it, except I think the bass is somewhere midway between evo and Odin. The Evo still has a fair but more. This will be my all arounder

Most likely Bloom Audio. I spoke with Andrew at the show about it.

 

[Beh0lder]

How would the Odyssey compare to the Xe6 since they both are described as warm and bassy?

 

[Lemondante]

How would the Odyssey compare to the Xe6 since they both are described as warm and bassy?

XE6 is... not good (for me) sadly. It's bass just sounds too bloated.