[davidcotton]

One thing that may or may not work to stop tips coming off are those adapters that come with spinfit and mandarin es symbios tips for different size nozzles? You slide the adapter on, and then the tip over that. Tried it on a westone um1 and a pair of silicone custom tips that had a comply t400 nozzle size. Ordinarily they a) wouldn't fit and b)wouldn't have stayed on. This time not only stayed on but were fairly tough to come off.

 

[bvng3540]

I have a different philosophy about audio cables.
You know some forumer wrote once ; you can cut your lamp in your room and hook it to your dap and headphones, then guess what it will work you have music that current took threw the wire to the headphones!

While I found that quote a little to extream lol. He had a point.

So back in my early audiophile journey I was reading a lot of threads about what cable does silver is brighter and copper is warmer as a general rule of thumbs.

What I learned my self is that cables actually dont change sound the way audiophiles think....

Its more like a cable changes the electrical current properties and that in result alters sound into different shapes and nuances.

So I believe if you have a very highend cable atm example ares II 8wires my case. Its not supposed to be that much of a drastic change compared to an 8 wire Cleopatra. The differences you actually feel and perceive are the way they forged the alloy and also cause its a silver cable. So 2 different metal types.

I know I am kinda saying there is no difference but at same time my example shows that there is one lmao.

All I am saying is a highend cable no matter what metal it will be already on a very high level of music. But man the prices on these cables is jewelry kind of very very pricey in my opinion.

My ares II 8wire was 350$ and if I want Cleopatra in 8 wire its around 1450$
So what you guys think?
Worth it or not? For maybe 5% in sound differences

I have 3 very expensive cables ranging from 1800 to 3000, and to be honest the improvement versus cheaper one is no more than 3%, so dont waste money on expensive cables, instead put that money on dap and iem instead

 

[Vitaly2017]

I have 3 very expensive cables ranging from 1800 to 3000, and to be honest the improvement versus cheaper one is no more than 3%, so dont waste money on expensive cables, instead put that money on dap and iem instead

If I recall it correctly snake oil they call it ) those venomous dangerously attractive cables )

 

[Fr_eak]

If I recall it correctly snake oil they call it ) those venomous dangerously attractive cables )

The cables debate will never end. From my point of view, cables do make a difference.

Scientific proof? To be defined (conductivity, noise, etc, I'm not a physician by training but I trust my ears)

Is the price proportional to the difference they produce? Depending on how you value that final bit of fine-tuning to the sound from your entire system.

Is it worth it? As above, entirely up to you.

 

[SBranson]

I have a different philosophy about audio cables.
You know some forumer wrote once ; you can cut your lamp in your room and hook it to your dap and headphones, then guess what it will work you have music that current took threw the wire to the headphones!

While I found that quote a little to extream lol. He had a point.

So back in my early audiophile journey I was reading a lot of threads about what cable does silver is brighter and copper is warmer as a general rule of thumbs.

What I learned my self is that cables actually dont change sound the way audiophiles think....

Its more like a cable changes the electrical current properties and that in result alters sound into different shapes and nuances.

So I believe if you have a very highend cable atm example ares II 8wires my case. Its not supposed to be that much of a drastic change compared to an 8 wire Cleopatra. The differences you actually feel and perceive are the way they forged the alloy and also cause its a silver cable. So 2 different metal types.

I know I am kinda saying there is no difference but at same time my example shows that there is one lmao.

All I am saying is a highend cable no matter what metal it will be already on a very high level of music. But man the prices on these cables is jewelry kind of very very pricey in my opinion.

My ares II 8wire was 350$ and if I want Cleopatra in 8 wire its around 1450$
So what you guys think?
Worth it or not? For maybe 5% in sound differences

It's funny to read all the responses to this. I kinda disagree with the idea of just buy another iem.. Except perhaps if its between a $1500 cable and the Valkyrie.
There are many people that have a whole bunch of iems listed in their signature and none of them particularly high end. I never understood the idea of quantity over quality. I know they all sound a bit different but my approach has always been to have one iem that was the best I could afford and try to make it sound the best I can. I have another cheaper set for work and something else that floats as I try a new tech, a new company, or something like that. The Bravado is that one for me, to dip my toe in the X series.

I don't see that spending as much as you want on a cable to improve only 3-5% matters as long as that improvement is meaningful to you.

In between orders of iems for work I've used Sony MH755s for $10 off of eBay and they're fine. I could live with those but I don't have so I don't.

It's all perspective. What's a waste of money to some is justified to others.
That last few percent of improvement is more important to me than spending the $450 the Eros II 8 wire cost me on the latest hype iem from China or even having something like the Bravado as a "different
tuning". Would that have been better served in the source? I don't know....

Funny- I think I've had tips come off twice. I walk with mine, and my ears certainly get sweaty after a mile or two of fast walking. It may be how you take your iems out of your ears. I take mine out by lifting the bottom at an angle so the top of the tip compresses against that part of my ear and the bottom of the iem compresses against the bottom of the tip as I remove them. That breaks the seal. If you just pull straight out, the tip is more likely to slide off the tube.

As to customs, I have a UERM, but have had many uni's and like them equally. And I can sell uni's a lot easier and for more.

My FA tips last maybe 4-5 months before starting to break down.

It's not just about when they are in my ears. Sometimes I put the tip on and i see it just slip to the very end of the nozzle. Just touching it makes it fall off and that's not after a couple.months of use.
I'll try cleaning the sleeves with alcohol more often and see if that restores the grip.

 

[SBranson]

The cables debate will never end. From my point of view, cables do make a difference.

Scientific proof? To be defined (conductivity, noise, etc, I'm not a physician by training but I trust my ears)

Is the price proportional to the difference they produce? Depending on how you value that final bit of fine-tuning to the sound from your entire system.

Is it worth it? As above, entirely up to you.

I was typing as you posted... Your answer is more eloquent and succinctly stated than mine.

 

[Progisus]

So cleaned iem and inside tip with isopropyl alcohol, remounted. They seem more secure. Old dog, new trick. Thanks for the tips ... haha. @olddude I’ll try your removal method as well. FWIW.. I’m using the silicone tips that came with mu Fourte. They clear all the sound holes and give a nice clear sound. Using tips from older Paradigm on the Fourte as they fit better. Go figure.

 

[Vitaly2017]

It's funny to read all the responses to this. I kinda disagree with the idea of just buy another iem.. Except perhaps if its between a $1500 cable and the Valkyrie.
There are many people that have a whole bunch of iems listed in their signature and none of them particularly high end. I never understood the idea of quantity over quality. I know they all sound a bit different but my approach has always been to have one iem that was the best I could afford and try to make it sound the best I can. I have another cheaper set for work and something else that floats as I try a new tech, a new company, or something like that. The Bravado is that one for me, to dip my toe in the X series.

I don't see that spending as much as you want on a cable to improve only 3-5% matters as long as that improvement is meaningful to you.

In between orders of iems for work I've used Sony MH755s for $10 off of eBay and they're fine. I could live with those but I don't have so I don't.

It's all perspective. What's a waste of money to some is justified to others.
That last few percent of improvement is more important to me than spending the $450 the Eros II 8 wire cost me on the latest hype iem from China or even having something like the Bravado as a "different
tuning". Would that have been better served in the source? I don't know....




It's not just about when they are in my ears. Sometimes I put the tip on and i see it just slip to the very end of the nozzle. Just touching it makes it fall off and that's not after a couple.months of use.
I'll try cleaning the sleeves with alcohol more often and see if that restores the grip.

Well not saying that its bad buying an expensive cable its just quiet very expensive for little return in quality. Lets say there is a roof limit for highend audio. Past certain price point it starts to be a diminishing return unfortunately.
I owned tia forte and what does it worth 3600$ not really I am happier with my phantoms.
But that was a very expensive lesson for me to get threw.

Before my phantoms and 1z I had sennheiser hdv820 + hd800s all custom cable all over the place. That setup just rape tia forte lo and its around same price point its not cause something is expensive means better.

I am now owing not a cheap setup eather and no it dont sound as the sennheiser combo I had but I love the musicality of my new setup can listen to it way more.

As go to 1 and best iem is a good idea I trie to do the same way. Thought phantom cant give me that on certain genras of music. And there is always a new iem that is released every year and wiill likely sound better then ya previous one so there is no eng game in this hobby.

And finding your absolute best matching iem on sound signature and preferences is extreamly hard way to many variables...

 

[mwhals]

I have a different philosophy about audio cables.
You know some forumer wrote once ; you can cut your lamp in your room and hook it to your dap and headphones, then guess what it will work you have music that current took threw the wire to the headphones!

While I found that quote a little to extream lol. He had a point.

So back in my early audiophile journey I was reading a lot of threads about what cable does silver is brighter and copper is warmer as a general rule of thumbs.

What I learned my self is that cables actually dont change sound the way audiophiles think....

Its more like a cable changes the electrical current properties and that in result alters sound into different shapes and nuances.

So I believe if you have a very highend cable atm example ares II 8wires my case. Its not supposed to be that much of a drastic change compared to an 8 wire Cleopatra. The differences you actually feel and perceive are the way they forged the alloy and also cause its a silver cable. So 2 different metal types.

I know I am kinda saying there is no difference but at same time my example shows that there is one lmao.

All I am saying is a highend cable no matter what metal it will be already on a very high level of music. But man the prices on these cables is jewelry kind of very very pricey in my opinion.

My ares II 8wire was 350$ and if I want Cleopatra in 8 wire its around 1450$
So what you guys think?
Worth it or not? For maybe 5% in sound differences

I am in agreement. I would rather put that kind of money in retirement instead of a cable. Retire earlier and it is more music listening earlier in my life since I can’t listen at work.

 

[olddude]

I never (well, almost never) clean the tips or nozzles. And I've never seen them slide. Just my experience.

I sold my Phantom rather than going the try different cable route. I'm sure a silver or a gold cable would have brightened them, and maybe even taken away some of the mid thickness that bothered me so much. But it just seemed that spending more money trying blindly to fix an $1800 iem to my specifications made no sense (to me). I bought it to serve as a warmer variant of my Zeus, but found that less than 10% of my music sounded good with it. I liked it, but it didn't suit me. So I sold it. The Zeus XR came with a hybrid cable that was, to my ears, too sibilant and thin. It arrived with a weak spot on one ear wire so it cut out (a lot). When I asked for a replacement EE sent me an Ares. Much better (for me). The Massdrop Zeus also came with a hybrid, which I listened to for 5 minutes and then swapped out for an Ares I had sitting around. Much better. However, I have in the past, with other cheaper iems (<$1K) purchased cables that pleased me immensely. I've had 3 Moon cables, plus a few others. So certainly I'm not against improving sound with a cable swap.

 

[SBranson]

Well not saying that its bad buying an expensive cable its just quiet very expensive for little return in quality. Lets say there is a roof limit for highend audio. Past certain price point it starts to be a diminishing return unfortunately.
I owned tia forte and what does it worth 3600$ not really I am happier with my phantoms.
But that was a very expensive lesson for me to get threw.

Before my phantoms and 1z I had sennheiser hdv820 + hd800s all custom cable all over the place. That setup just rape tia forte lo and its around same price point its not cause something is expensive means better.

I am now owing not a cheap setup eather and no it dont sound as the sennheiser combo I had but I love the musicality of my new setup can listen to it way more.

As go to 1 and best iem is a good idea I trie to do the same way. Thought phantom cant give me that on certain genras of music. And there is always a new iem that is released every year and wiill likely sound better then ya previous one so there is no eng game in this hobby.

And finding your absolute best matching iem on sound signature and preferences is extreamly hard way to many variables...

Yeah, I hear you. To each their own.. There's always diminishing returns but there are improvements nonetheless. It's just whether or not they are worth it to you.

I never (well, almost never) clean the tips or nozzles. And I've never seen them slide. Just my experience.

I sold my Phantom rather than going the try different cable route. I'm sure a silver or a gold cable would have brightened them, and maybe even taken away some of the mid thickness that bothered me so much. But it just seemed that spending more money trying blindly to fix an $1800 iem to my specifications made no sense (to me). I bought it to serve as a warmer variant of my Zeus, but found that less than 10% of my music sounded good with it. I liked it, but it didn't suit me. So I sold it. The Zeus XR came with a hybrid cable that was, to my ears, too sibilant and thin. It arrived with a weak spot on one ear wire so it cut out (a lot). When I asked for a replacement EE sent me an Ares. Much better (for me). The Massdrop Zeus also came with a hybrid, which I listened to for 5 minutes and then swapped out for an Ares I had sitting around. Much better. However, I have in the past, with other cheaper iems (<$1K) purchased cables that pleased me immensely. I've had 3 Moon cables, plus a few others. So certainly I'm not against improving sound with a cable swap.

I had been trying the Noble Audio route and tried the Katana and Encore. Besides the fit issues with both, the Encore had all the technical abilities I thought I wanted. A deep and wide soundstage, clear crisp transients and very open sound.. but the timbre was a bit thin, particularly on instuments like cellos. Even vocals seemed as if sung in a very cold room, for lack of a better way to describe it. I could've tried to "warm it up" with a cable but my source at the time was a Sony ZX300 which I figured was warm..
So I went the other direction when KiroKitsu's Phantoms came up for sale here in Canada. In them I could hear the detail but there was that mid thickness.. Timbre was excellent though and there is so much life in the sound. Mine came with a silver cable which I didn't really like the sound of and my only other cable was a Linsoul one which made it even thicker.
So I gambled on the Ares II 8 wire and it sounded great... but reading this thread got me thinking that one more cable try on the Eros II just to see if that would clear up the last little bit.
I feel like it has...
I still would like to try the Zeus some day though.

 

[singleended5863]

So I gambled on the Ares II 8 wire and it sounded great... but reading this thread got me thinking that one more cable try on the Eros II just to see if that would clear up the last little bit.

I am setting as my end game for now with cables and did try other cables having same price as Ares II 8 wire (Ares II 4 wire is little bit thinner in general) but nothing would beat its SQ with my Phantom and Spartan. Eros II 8 wire would add more details in the high and mid especially expanding separate instruments. I will keep Eros II 8 wire for the future Valkyrie (best match).
Maybe in the future I would try Janus B which add more rounded and musical to the mid but it costs more than $1K.

 

[SBranson]

I am setting as my end game for now with cables and did try other cables having same price as Ares II 8 wire (Ares II 4 wire is little bit thinner in general) but nothing would beat its SQ with my Phantom and Spartan. Eros II 8 wire would add more details in the high and mid especially expanding separate instruments. I will keep Eros II 8 wire for the future Valkyrie (best match).
Maybe in the future I would try Janus B which add more rounded and musical to the mid but it costs more than $1K.

You were the catalyst to me trying the Eros.. just couldn't remember your user name. I guess I owe you a thanks.

 

[BananaOoyoo]

If cables make a difference to you and they’re worth the price, then get them, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. (Ignore all the holier-than-thou measurement-based talk.)

If they don’t make a difference to you and aren’t worth the price, then forget about them, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. (Ignore those snarky comments about people feeling bad for others who can’t tell cable differences.)

Whether it’s real or placebo, what’s important is that you enjoy what you’re listening to.

It’s really not that hard. My hearing extends roughly up to 20k (still pretty young), and I can pretty easily tell the difference between bitrates (128/192/256/320/flac). Cables? Nah. Definitely like softer, lighter, or fancier-looking cables though, and I’ve spent a not-insignificant amount on cables/adapters/etc. because of this.

 

[SBranson]

If cables make a difference to you and they’re worth the price, then get them, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. (Ignore all the holier-than-thou measurement-based talk.)

If they don’t make a difference to you and aren’t worth the price, then forget about them, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. (Ignore those snarky comments about people feeling bad for others who can’t tell cable differences.)

Whether it’s real or placebo, what’s important is that you enjoy what you’re listening to.

It’s really not that hard. My hearing extends roughly up to 20k (still pretty young), and I can pretty easily tell the difference between bitrates (128/192/256/320/flac). Cables? Nah. Definitely like softer, lighter, or fancier-looking cables though, and I’ve spent a not-insignificant amount on cables/adapters/etc. because of this.

I apologize if the "feeling bad" comment came across as snarky as the part about the colour blindness afterwards was supposed to temper that. I feel bad for myself not being able to distinguish colours and have embarrassed myself many a time.. like the first time my mother realized it as I, at age 4, was wearing a red shirt sitting on a green chair and proudly proclaiming that I matched.. oops..

My point is that to me the cable differences are obvious but I'm perfectly willing to accept that others don't hear them.. I can see colour, just not in the same way. I can appreciate colour but obviously not in the same way. I see things differently and notice different aspects of my reality because of my colour blindness because colour is not one of the primary attributes I ascribe to things I see... Do you understand where I'm coming from? It's not meant to be superior.. I agree with everything you are saying in your post.
Maybe the analogy is correct or maybe differences in hearing doesn't work the same way but that's the only way I can make sense of it. Doesn't mean anyone enjoys music more than anyone else.. it's just in different ways... I'm sure that much we can all agree upon.

Boy I sure wish I could hear up to 20kHz though. I got into audio later in life so I can't imagine what I'm missing..

Anyway... that's enough cable talk from me.. I'm just really happy with my set up, except for the hiss in the M11 but it's not so bad that I am not thrilled to have what I have.