Cables are a personal thing and I think everyone has a limit that they wish to spend on a cable, I know I personally do. A couple of my IEM's have benefited the most from the more expensive cables, but they are just an additional tweak. I think there are fine cable options for $500 and less and many much less.
Empire Ears - Discussion & Impressions (Formerly EarWerkz)
- Thread starter Jack Vang
- Start date
Yes, it is about how much you want to indulge in the hobby and where your priorities are. Horus sounds flippin' amazing, but so do Ares II and Eros II at a fraction of the price. I suspect that for me a cable like Lionheart might be a sweet spot in terms of price and performance. We will find out soon if I am right about that when I get it in for review!
So true, this hobby is not the only thing in our lives that this translates to. People think I'm crazy for driving the cars I choose.
I agree, on indulgence and priorities. Lionheart does indeed seem to be a good option at $500. it is nice to have options.Yes, it is about how much you want to indulge in the hobby and where your priorities are. Horus sounds flippin' amazing, but so do Ares II and Eros II at a fraction of the price. I suspect that for me a cable like Lionheart might be a sweet spot in terms of price and performance. We will find out soon if I am right about that when I get it in for review!
ctsooner22
1000+ Head-Fier
Cables are an interesting part of the industry. I've known many in the industry (2 channel) since the start. I also have done a fair amount of business with cable manufacturers over the years when I was still able to work. A couple of these made teh actually wires for some of the biggest names in the industry. It's amazing how it's grown. I had more charlatans in the beginning than engineers or folks who actually made 'better sounding' products. The mark ups are tremendous. In the same category as phono cartridges. It's one of those products that they price where they can and we pay. To me, that's just good business using supply and demand. Make a great product and we will reward you.
A well engineered cable should be so neutral that it will match with anything and sound great (or crappy if you pair it with crappy components). In 2 channel, I have had most every cable in the system. Most of it is ref cable that I've been given to review or sold to me by folks from various companies who were 'getting rid' of their own stash. Similar to headphone cable industry. I've found that Audioquest for 2 channel makes the most neutral cables I've ever heard overall. I use their TOTL WEL interconnect for my integrated amp. I used to use their Niagara balanced connect. Cost difference between the two is: WEL 1m balanced $7,800 USD vs 1,600 USD. The sound profile is the same, but the WEL just gets out of teh way more. It is a quieter cable that sharpens everything and makes things even more musical. Now is the price difference worth it? Only you can decide. I bought my pair as the price let me little option, lol.
I only share this to show where I'm coming from. It seems to me that manufacturers of IEM's will use lesser cable or some will provide matched cables that are outstanding. I've been told by more than a few in this industry that EE supplies outstanding cables with their IEM's up the line. I seem to see the same 7 or 8 companies spoken about IRT the IEM cable industry. I've seen cable prices rise considerably over the last three years that I've really looked. Are most of the 700 USD plus cables worth it? Only you can decide that, but to me when you start to spend that kind of money and you don't own TOTL IEM's, then you may have been better off spending that money on a better IEM or Source or DAC/amp. or all of the above, lol. My iPhone/Mojo sounds better to me than the Fiio 7 mk2, which I wanted to like better. Can't wait to get the Mac DAC in to see if it beats teh Mojo. Hoping soon that maybe one of the DAP's will better the separate DAC's, but I clearly heard large differences with my Ayre QX5 DAC/amp over any other I've had in the house and when I use my home server that's only bettered by the Aurender N10 in my system so far. It just shows how great these IEM's are when fed great source material from a great DAC/amp combo. To me cables are the last thing I upgrade. We all have different tastes and desires.
As was posted above, you don't need to spend more than even 300 to get a very good cable. It's incrementally better as you go up the line, but again it's a value judgement for each of us. That's why I love threads like this. Learning a ton, so thanks all.
A well engineered cable should be so neutral that it will match with anything and sound great (or crappy if you pair it with crappy components). In 2 channel, I have had most every cable in the system. Most of it is ref cable that I've been given to review or sold to me by folks from various companies who were 'getting rid' of their own stash. Similar to headphone cable industry. I've found that Audioquest for 2 channel makes the most neutral cables I've ever heard overall. I use their TOTL WEL interconnect for my integrated amp. I used to use their Niagara balanced connect. Cost difference between the two is: WEL 1m balanced $7,800 USD vs 1,600 USD. The sound profile is the same, but the WEL just gets out of teh way more. It is a quieter cable that sharpens everything and makes things even more musical. Now is the price difference worth it? Only you can decide. I bought my pair as the price let me little option, lol.
I only share this to show where I'm coming from. It seems to me that manufacturers of IEM's will use lesser cable or some will provide matched cables that are outstanding. I've been told by more than a few in this industry that EE supplies outstanding cables with their IEM's up the line. I seem to see the same 7 or 8 companies spoken about IRT the IEM cable industry. I've seen cable prices rise considerably over the last three years that I've really looked. Are most of the 700 USD plus cables worth it? Only you can decide that, but to me when you start to spend that kind of money and you don't own TOTL IEM's, then you may have been better off spending that money on a better IEM or Source or DAC/amp. or all of the above, lol. My iPhone/Mojo sounds better to me than the Fiio 7 mk2, which I wanted to like better. Can't wait to get the Mac DAC in to see if it beats teh Mojo. Hoping soon that maybe one of the DAP's will better the separate DAC's, but I clearly heard large differences with my Ayre QX5 DAC/amp over any other I've had in the house and when I use my home server that's only bettered by the Aurender N10 in my system so far. It just shows how great these IEM's are when fed great source material from a great DAC/amp combo. To me cables are the last thing I upgrade. We all have different tastes and desires.
As was posted above, you don't need to spend more than even 300 to get a very good cable. It's incrementally better as you go up the line, but again it's a value judgement for each of us. That's why I love threads like this. Learning a ton, so thanks all.
Thus the point I was making. I generally try to do my reviews for the masses not for the people that are already receiving free review samples of products. It is also important to know that we are Head-Fi and the average consumer would balk at a 150.00 cable let alone a 500.00 cable. If you look at the cables I have only one has been a sample, I don't ask for cables, and I make no bones about it, the sound is good but the ergonomics bother me.
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ctsooner22
1000+ Head-Fier
Great post Subguy. Thanks for sharing that. Yes, I was kind of backing up what you and a couple of others have been saying. I do that same thing when I review 2 channel gear. What I tell companies is that if I can't give you a positive review, I won't say a thing and I always send the product back to them. The one problem with cables in IEM market is that there are so many different connections. I also try to never use adaptors with cables as I've found they can degrade the sound. Sometimes they degrade it enough where you lose the benefit of using the better cable. This is why I need to make it to the NYC canjam this year. It will be my very first ever audio show. I just have never gone to one as I have spoken with enough folks who go and tell me you can't get a good read on gear due to rooms, electrical conditions and amount of folks in the rooms. Portable audio is totally different though. Very easy to try out cables and universal IEM's. I had a blast in Japan trying out everything. It was like Christmas for me.
Interesting points in your post there, especially from your experience in the speaker world.
I think synergy is very important where it comes to gear matching, but price doesn't necessarily guarantee excellence, as your Mojo/X7ii comment highlights.
I have actually been enjoying two of my more expensive IEMs most from the two cheapest DAPs in my collection - the EE Athena pairs very well with the Shanling M2S, and my 64 Audio U8 pairs superbly with my Sony NW-A36 (which also sounds excellent with the Zeus). Both are under £200, but sound better for my preferences with these two IEMs than my more expensive gear like the Opus #3 at 4x the price we. Technical performance (and any marginal benefits you can eke out) is one thing, but most decent audiophile DAPs are on a level these days where the differences are almost as much down to preference as capability, which I would imagine is the case with cabling as well.
Bottom line - I'd trade absolute performance that doesn't move me emotionally when I listen to music for something that isn't quite perfect but gets my feet tapping every time, irrespective of the cost. Of course, you occasionally get lucky and find something that fits both criteria (like the Zeus), and that's where things get REALLY enjoyable...
Bottom line - if you find a combination that works for you, that's the only thing that matters.
To me, cables are instrumental components in the adudio chain, but it's territory that should always be tread carefully. The differences cables make are always relative and vary from one person to the next, and tonal pairing is often more important than absolute performance. It's funny you mention neutrality and "getting out of the way" because what makes the Venom an instant hit for me is how colourless it is. But yeah, $500+ cables should be the last thing on your mind when you're considering upgrading your chain, and there are plenty of budget options in the marketplace already. An example would be the Effect Audio x Music Sanctuary Eos, which I should be reviewing in the coming weeks.
ctsooner22
1000+ Head-Fier
Totally agree with you guys. Not sure if I said things correctly. Also I should have said that I only used the Savants so I can’t tell which was better for bass and richness since the Savant is just very neutral and not the last line for richness of tone. I think I said that correctly. I will need to borrow the Fiji against when I get my new CIEM as I want one device for music and not worry about the phone.
In our current situation as postdoctoral academics (underpaid and overworked) I find that the indulgence is important to keep me sane (apart from the fact that I use music for my health as well), but I have to be careful as well. So while I think I am getting close to my TOTL purchase, they will need to fit my preferences perfectly as well because I don't want to buy anything else beyond that for the foreseeable future (unless I get tenure
).
proedros
Headphoneus Supremus
@Wyville what kind of signature are you interested/looking ? also what is yur budget and how much are you willing to stretch it ?
be sure what you want before buying, and remember that selling any customs will have quite a resell hit on you, especially if they had been bought new/full price
on EE topic , i decided to switch cables to my Zeus XR - i was using the whiplash hybrid but decided to try again the pw audio no5 , but it's hard to A/B by short term memory and see which cable pairs batter with XR
pw5 is lighter and easier on the ears (being a 4-braid) , and i think it may make XR sound more lean but maybe it's my idea
oh well , both cables pair well with XR , i am nitpicking here i guess
Zeus is great though , no doubt about it and no upgraditis feelings yet (which is always a good sign and the best way to know that you did a good purchase)
be sure what you want before buying, and remember that selling any customs will have quite a resell hit on you, especially if they had been bought new/full price
on EE topic , i decided to switch cables to my Zeus XR - i was using the whiplash hybrid but decided to try again the pw audio no5 , but it's hard to A/B by short term memory and see which cable pairs batter with XR
pw5 is lighter and easier on the ears (being a 4-braid) , and i think it may make XR sound more lean but maybe it's my idea
oh well , both cables pair well with XR , i am nitpicking here i guess
Zeus is great though , no doubt about it and no upgraditis feelings yet (which is always a good sign and the best way to know that you did a good purchase)
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I am looking for IEMs with a natural sound and excellent timbre to reproduce instruments realistically for classical music, while maintaining versatility. I initially thought that I would always need to go for warm and lush IEMs because of my treble sensitivity, but have learned that a brighter (or at least less warm) sound is no problem as long as the treble is even and smooth.
My budget is flexible, although it won't stretch to the Zeus XR. I can't source the prerequisite number of puppies to bribe my wife.
Customs are still problematic for me because I put constant strain on my ear canal (grinding my teeth, etc) and with acrylic CIEMs that causes a lot of issues. Not sure yet if I can find a way around that, so for the time being I will play it safe with universals.
What I do when I review a cable is listen to a single piece of music I know very well and analyse it for specific cues. For instance, for my Eros II review I listened to 3 different versions of the first 2 movements of Beethoven's No.3 and noted areas where Ares II would perform well or struggle, to compare to Eros II. The first 2 movements are still around half an hour long, so it was not A/B-ing, but it provides insight into how a certain cable performs technically.
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I am looking for IEMs with a natural sound and excellent timbre to reproduce instruments realistically for classical music, while maintaining versatility. I initially thought that I would always need to go for warm and lush IEMs because of my treble sensitivity, but have learned that a brighter (or at least less warm) sound is no problem as long as the treble is even and smooth.
My budget is flexible, although it won't stretch to the Zeus XR. I can't source the prerequisite number of puppies to bribe my wife.
Customs are still problematic for me because I put constant strain on my ear canal (grinding my teeth, etc) and with acrylic CIEMs that causes a lot of issues. Not sure yet if I can find a way around that, so for the time being I will play it safe with universals.
What I do when I review a cable is listen to a single piece of music I know very well and analyse it for specific cues. For instance, for my Eros II review I listened to 3 different versions of the first 2 movements of Beethoven's No.3 and noted areas where Ares II would perform well or struggle, to compare to Eros II. The first 2 movements are still around half an hour long, so it was not A/B-ing, but it provides insight into how a certain cable performs technically.
I'm surprised you've never given the Spartan or Merlin a try, man; maybe you can convince Eric to send you a demo.
I agree with your take on cable reviews. They're more difficult to write than IEM or headphone evaluations because they're inherently relative in nature; you have to review a cable as a comparison (to the stock cable), instead of as its own descriptive piece. I don't know whether or not you agree with that, but that is definitely my view on it. Takes a great amount of focus, aural memory and time, but at least they aren't as wordy as IEM reviews. Well, around Canjam London I was hoping to demo EE and had come up with this cunning plan to convince Gisele to take on EE as well (Jack and Gisele had been in touch previously) so I could demo at my leisure. Sadly, my entirely "selfless" plan, that was entirely for the "good of the community", did not work.I'm surprised you've never given the Spartan or Merlin a try, man; maybe you can convince Eric to send you a demo.
Yes, cables are quite challenging to review because you are simply still using the same IEMs and no cable is capable of making those sound completely different. I feel it has more to do with whether a cable accentuates specific aspects of the IEMs resulting in a technical improvement, or if it accentuates the wrong areas to result in a mismatch. It is about the synergy and a really good cable, like said in the discussion earlier, gets out of the way and allows the IEMs to breath freely.
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