[olor1n]

Quote:

Indeed.
 
I've had a bunch of comments I was planning on posting here in the past weeks, but I wasn't sure if I should revive it or not. Unfortunately, I have forgotten many of them, but I willing to jump back into the action as soon as this thread picks up again.
 
As for the title I created over 2 months ago, I would say I still stand by it -- the 2nd part that is...
 
Even after buying a nice entry level amp, MKIII, and pairing it with phones such as the DT880, DT990, HD650, and D2000, I am still convinced there isn't "THE" jaw-dropping improvement like everyone seems to glorify so well. But the interesting thing is, not only was the improvement not that big from the amp itself, but it wasn't that big from "upgrading" and "switching" headphones themselves as well.

My HD650 sounds decent when plugged directly to my ipod touch set at about 80% volume. It does not suddenly sound like an ibud because it is not being properly driven.
 
But adequate volume does not equate to sufficient drive, and my own experience leads me to conclude that your ears are broken, if you feel there's no justifiable difference between a properly driven HD650 and one just running out of your mp3 player or soundcard. Your claim of finding little difference between different cans is further proof of this.

 

[sugarkang]

There's a world of difference out of my iPod Touch at high volume.
That's because there's clipping on the bass because the ipod can't output enough power.
People who listen to a lot of "bad, muddy bass" with giant woofers in their cars know all about clipping.
 
Once I add the FiiO E5, the sound is no longer struggling and the bass sounds as it should.
At low volumes, there is no difference in sound amped / unamped.
Amp is nothing but power. 
 
I believe that some of the ppl on here have amps that color the sound.
That's fine.  I just don't want any of that. 
 
"veil" is nothing but EQ too low at 1k.
"sibiliance" is nothing but EQ too high at 8k.

 

[3602]

Quote:

Be assured, there is a huge improvement with a good amp. I wouldn't touch crap like Fiio or Hifiman. FWIE, cheap amplifiers don't do anything. If they did, it is negligible.

FiiO, can't say. HiFiMan though, them tubes seem to get some pretty good words here.
Also the Asgard is cheap, it's getting a lot of love (at least it was). I myself use an HAGL, not too expensive (although bought used) and makes a non-negligible difference.

 

[olor1n]

sugarkang, I told you in another thread that I also have a Fiio E7, which is comparable if not better than the E5 as a portable amp. The difference between running my HD650 out of that and my Audio-GD amp is night and day.
 
Your posts in other threads clearly indicate that you place no value in other people's experiences, even if your opinions are seemingly based on having only heard these headphones through inadequate portable amps. Your motivation must be to troll, and the reason I haven't put you on my ignore list is because of the morbid fascination to see how much FUD you can spread amongst members.

 

[NapalmK]

Quote:

Even after buying a nice entry level amp, MKIII, and pairing it with phones such as the DT880, DT990, HD650, and D2000, I am still convinced there isn't "THE" jaw-dropping improvement like everyone seems to glorify so well. But the interesting thing is, not only was the improvement not that big from the amp itself, but it wasn't that big from "upgrading" and "switching" headphones themselves as well.

Please explain...

 

[jasonb]

i didn't read this whole thread so ignore me if i missed something vital.
 
what do you feel needs to be improved on with the AD700? what do you like about it, and what don't you like about it? what difference are you looking for in a new pair of headphones?
 
Quote:

Well, what can I say?
 
I bought the DT880 32ohm to try and best my AD700. All I was looking for was a headphone with a notable improvement to SQ.
 
But unfortunately, even the awesome DT880 isn't really an improvement...
 
It sounds a bit better than my AD700, more so that the sound is fuller and has more weight, but that is likely due to the added bass. If I so happened to adjust the bass on my EQ in favor of the AD700, these two headphones can sound very similar.
 
Every time I hear a detail I've never heard with the DT880, I switch back to the AD700 and to my dismay, I hear the same detail. So as of right now, the DT880 really doesn't provide an upgrade to the AD700 for me. So why on earth am I keeping it? Well, that's the thing. I don't think I'm going to. I need to find something else but I don't know if I can get any better unamped...
 
So is there something out there that IS an nice upgrade, that is actually an improvement?
 
(Source iAudio 7/9 - Unamped)

 

[Katun]

 
Quote:

Quote:

Even after buying a nice entry level amp, MKIII, and pairing it with phones such as the DT880, DT990, HD650, and D2000, I am still convinced there isn't "THE" jaw-dropping improvement like everyone seems to glorify so well. But the interesting thing is, not only was the improvement not that big from the amp itself, but it wasn't that big from "upgrading" and "switching" headphones themselves as well.

Please explain...

Which part?

 

[NapalmK]

Mainly the last sentence.

 

[sugarkang]

Your opinion is valuable to me because...?
 
Incidentally, spreading FUD amongst Sarah Palin supporters is a patriotic duty.
 
Quote:

sugarkang, I told you in another thread that I also have a Fiio E7, which is comparable if not better than the E5 as a portable amp. The difference between running my HD650 out of that and my Audio-GD amp is night and day.
 
 

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

sugarkang, I told you in another thread that I also have a Fiio E7, which is comparable if not better than the E5 as a portable amp. The difference between running my HD650 out of that and my Audio-GD amp is night and day.
 
Your posts in other threads clearly indicate that you place no value in other people's experiences, even if your opinions are seemingly based on having only heard these headphones through inadequate portable amps. Your motivation must be to troll, and the reason I haven't put you on my ignore list is because of the morbid fascination to see how much FUD you can spread amongst members.

 
Quote:

Your opinion is valuable to me because...?
 
Incidentally, spreading FUD amongst Sarah Palin supporters is a patriotic duty.

 
Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Aivc]

I'm guessing sugarkang doesn't value your opinion/experience because it is purely based on ears and mind and not on scientific facts, and therefore has a high chance of being influenced by placebo factors ( factors that Katlan or Catharsis listed before).

Edit : I felt the need the copy those again, because I think they are what most Head-fiers are missing here.
 
Expectation bias
Psychoacoustics
Equal loudness contours
Auditory illusions

 

[Katun]

Quote:

Mainly the last sentence.

Alright, let's see if I can clear that up a bit.
 
I mainly said two different things in that sentence. First I said that improvement isn't that good when using an amp over just an MP3 or CD player. There is a bit, but it's not like I HAVE to get an amp for this or that headphone. And then the second thing I mentioned that was a bit confusing, is "switching" and "upgrading" headphones isn't that much of an improvement either. For instance, the AD700 and the DT880 sound different, and the DT880 has the edge, but even when using completely different headphones, it's not like you are going to hear extreme improvement or new things in your music. The D2000 and the HD650 sound incredibly similar, with the HD650 being a bit more smooth and balanced, and the D2000 having a bit more bass and treble. But bottom line, they sound very close to each other (with my preference still on the D2000).
 
Yes, I know each headphone has it's own unique sound, and I realize that, as I have experienced many, but every headphone's sound is going to sound relatively the same because they all have one purpose -- to project the music you put through it. No, the Grado SR80i doesn't sound like my XB500, but they still both will play the same music -- just in their own unique way.
 
Bottom line, I thought the HD650, DT880, D2000, K701, etc. would be the "top of the top" and be a ginormous improvement to my PortaPros or whatever budget headphone I'm using. But unfortunately, there was never a HUGE improvement in my entire headphone career -- just good ones.

 

[sugarkang]

This is a crucial point.
It's insane to think that we have pocket computers built into our telephones that make star trek communicators look antiquated.
And people want to insist that we haven't mastered the sound spectrum yet?  PLEASE.
 
And I say this as I've just ordered the DT-990 to A/B against my 880.
Difference is that I know what I'm getting into.
I know I'm splitting hairs.
 
At this point, I've concluded that most sound can be EQ'ed to your liking. 
What I'm going for now is presentation and soundstage. 
My objective is to get as close to Dolby Headphone without the Dolby Headphone.
 
Quote:

Bottom line, I thought the HD650, DT880, D2000, K701, etc. would be the "top of the top" and be a ginormous improvement to my PortaPros or whatever budget headphone I'm using. But unfortunately, there was never a HUGE improvement in my entire headphone career -- just good ones.

 

[SoSpecial]

AM I the only who doesn't think in terms of "Better?"
 
Listen all headphones are shades of colors, Bass heavies are Blue, Mids are Green, Trebles are Red. From their on they are just different shades of those three mixing the three colors as you blend signatures, the more neutral you get the more black you get. The more Treble Bass IE V shaped sound Sig the more purple you are, the more mid heavy the more vegetarian you are and I'm a meat eater so I don't care about mids( not to the point that I'd seak them out with the big money).
 
Then we have Fidelity, it's the Fi to your Hi. Even this doesn't really go Low-Fi <Mid-fi<Hi-fi. It's more about Sound Texture, is it dark or warm or sibilant, is it boomy or punchy or deep with plenty of body. Does it  have plenty of emotion does it immerse you, is the signature aggressive or sweet like candy. It is smooth, is it analytical, is it practical, is it relaxing, is it taxing, is it stress full, is it harsh, is it right, is it dry, is it bright, is it energetic. This Is fidelity and we all have a different opinion on it. To understand where the idea of fidelity starts is to truly know ourselves in order to make smart purchases that are correct for us, we must listen with our ears before we lay down the money. 
 
A more technical explanation of what fidelity is, is to know what harmonics are. Recently I watched Dave Rats "Ultimate Headphone," where he studies many many good sets all of which he says are amazing but for what he is looking for IE LIVE SOUND he must watch frequency balance AND Harmonics to determine what is live sound on a mathematical level.
Harmonics are where you study various frequency when they are the only thing meant to be played, you notice depending on your sound signature the harmonics will shape each note differently and in there lies the  measurable representation of the sound something our ears here but couldn't begin to fathom, with testing I'm fairly sure we can  figure it out, it's not terribly complex of an idea.
 
The point being that you don't need to be a rocket scientist to pick up a porta pro and like it then pick up an HD800 and really not think it was a huge improvement if you understand their is no "Better" there is no progression, their is no standard of excellence. There is no objective truth that trumps all things when it comes to headphones their are only shades of Blue, Green, and red and the Harmonics they employ to bring enjoyment and it's version of Musical Nirvana to the ears and hearts of the audiophiles who endlessly chase this dragon yet will never catch it.

 

[sugarkang]

Good point.
However, up until recent technological advancements, there was clearly a working definition of better.
78 rpm -> 45 rpm -> 33 rpm -> tape -> cd
 
It's just that we have defeated the limits of technological improvements. 
Frequency outputs, noise reductions were the main ones.  
Some people think we're still fighting that fight.  I obviously don't. 
 
Some people want to pay $1,000 for some headphones using outdated,
abandoned technology made by two guys,
one of whom isn't even an engineer. 
But hey, the cans are made of rosewood. 
 
Which, as an acoustic guitar player, I can tell you that affects the sound in a number of uncontrollable ways.
Which then leads me to believe their spec paper is nothing but a big fat lie.   
But that's a digression for another time.
 
Quote:

AM I the only who doesn't think in terms of "Better?"