Effect Audio cables thread

[GiullianSN]

So...

An epic moment to be honest, let's see it together.

I'll start at the end, no need to create a false suspense :

The Ares S Fouders Edition rules. No question.

But... it was a long and close combat at first and I was quite (badly) surprised, because for the first hours (50 to 100h to be more specifc), I preferred the standard version, in 8 wires.

I was very... upset, frustrated because :

- The Founders Edition was the best cable, technically wise. It was clear. Not day and night, but the overall precision, separation, definition and resolution were better. And the low end was immédiatly more stronger, meaty, articulate... but..................
- The standard version was more "musical", and above all spontaneous, snappy, open, more natural.... In short, I preferred the result obtained.

The Founders behaved like a diesel engine in cold weather : heavy and long to start, to rev up....

Very strange :

- The standard version was brand new, and I had run it for roughly 2 weeks. So the cable had to be "breaked in" ((I will come back to this question of "breaking in", or more specifically "pairing", especially electrical pairing)). And immediately, I was in love. Immediately.
- But the Founders Edition was a second hand... so, logically......................................... no need to break it in............................................. and I wasn't in love. Like it, but not love it, as the standard version.... damn.

I'm doing the short version here, but I had a really bad 2 weeks. Frustrating... Hence the hesitations I had expressed here (polite mode on : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/effect-audio-cables-thread.787717/page-464#post-17570587 )...

I had spent 800 euro, second hand, on a cable which was certainly very good... but while preferring the standard version, at 250 euro... gloups !!!!

I alternated listenings, and each time I switched to the standard version, things seemed "musically obvious" (listening pleasure) to me... compared to the other technically more accomplished version... but less "musically obvious"... TOTAL FRUSTRATION.............................

However, one evening, after all these procrastination, The Founders Edition was released. At once. As if a dike had given way or a lock had come loose.

There was a plateau, and from there, the Founders, while keeping its technical qualities intact (even having even increased them: general clarity and balance ; the high was more opened), took on the same traits of liveliness and spontaneity of the standard version.

This is not the first time that I have witnessed this type of phenomenon. This had also been the case with my big sedentary cables (see my signature).

But for mobile cables, I had never so precisely and systematically observed the issue...

Here too, the context was particularly interesting, since it was a comparaison, step by step, between two products with the same base ; although quite heavily modified (the Founders: basically, it's a code 51 but in copper base instead of silver base, with a different litz structure, and 8 wires vs 4 wires - code 51 -...).

What makes me wonder the most is that the Founders Edition was therefore a second-hand cable (admittedly in indistinguishable new condition ):

How long had it been used ?

The previous owner used it with an Empire Ears Odin.

But there, it's as if the cable had gone through a "phase of adaptation", of "transition", to finally break free and literally "explode" (clarity, dynamics, etc.)

Conversely, the standard version had only known my Aure Ringo's...

Here, in a few words, I wanted to make this testimony public.

I can't draw any conclusions except one:

Give to the products sufficient time to express themselves and, yes () to "pair" () each other. 50 to 100hours.

This seems to me to be the minimum time required.

Is it only a "perception story" ? Electrical matching ? All of that, I DON'T KNOW... really...

But on the other hand, I know exactly what sensations I went through during this (incredibly frustrating) period, with a "before" and an "after", so...

Thank you for reading me and obviously open to all discussions or remarks.

Fun and interesting comments as always mate. well done.

I can't wait to test those FE and the upgraded Chiron

 

[phiemon]

I noticed that the connection (2pin) of Chiron are kind of hard to put in. Is there a solution for this? PWAudio can be connected smoothly.

 

[rev92]

I noticed that the connection (2pin) of Chiron are kind of hard to put in. Is there a solution for this? PWAudio can be connected smoothly.

Isn't it a good thing? More secure connection is always good in my book

 

[phiemon]

Isn't it a good thing? More secure connection is always good in my book

Honestly, I'm afraid of damaging the housing from the IEM if I have to push hard. In fact, I refrained from even proibing Chiron with Mentor. With Traillii, Chiron plugs in just fine instead.

 

[slumberman]

Honestly, I'm afraid of damaging the housing from the IEM if I have to push hard. In fact, I refrained from even proibing Chiron with Mentor. With Traillii, Chiron plugs in just fine instead.

Better safe than sorry …

 

[phiemon]

On the other hand, I have the impression that the problem is not the pins, but the black thing next to them, which is perhaps too thick and doesn't quite fit? What if I make this thing smaller sawing it? Will the connector be too loose? And do the pins have to be pushed in all the way or would it work less deep?

I think it would be really appropriate for Effect Audio (@JordonEA) to comment on this now.

 

[slumberman]

I didn’t think of that, but it could be.

 

[Scorpio1957]

You need to go and read the warranty by Noble about using third party cables or making modifications by anyone else apart from Noble.

 

[Loquah]

I'm waiting for the Ares S 8W for the Mest MKIIs hoping to find a good synergy so I can listen to the dongles I recently bought and which are arriving to me. I'm already thinking how to reuse the PWaudio M2 Copper (original from the Mest MKII) and which iem to try it on.

That will be a great combination based on my experiences. Enjoy!!

 

[Somek]

Honestly, I'm afraid of damaging the housing from the IEM if I have to push hard. In fact, I refrained from even proibing Chiron with Mentor. With Traillii, Chiron plugs in just fine instead.

Usually, a few first plugs are a bit harder. I don't think you can damage anything, just make sure you are pushing it perpendicularly to the IEM.

 

[boromcom]

I have Eros S with Annihilator 2023. But I think Anni is deserved more.

 

[phiemon]

Usually, a few first plugs are a bit harder. I don't think you can damage anything, just make sure you are pushing it perpendicularly to the IEM.

Yes, that was also my thought at the beginning. But with Traillii it is smooth and I hear a click. What you write makes sense, though. Nevertheless, I would be happy if Effect Audio would comment on this. I have now checked all pin sizes and they are all standard 0.78mm. So everything is already compatible.

 

[Somek]

Yes, that was also my thought at the beginning. But with Traillii it is smooth and I hear a click. What you write makes sense, though. Nevertheless, I would be happy if Effect Audio would comment on this. I have now checked all pin sizes and they are all standard 0.78mm. So everything is already compatible.

I can't recall exactly who, but one manufacturer explained why the 2pin is so popular. It has much larger tolerances than the MMCX (did you know it's a RF connector used in professional electronics?). So that is why some connectors mate harder than others. But yes, a comment from Effect would be greatly appreciated, maybe I have missed something.

 

[rosci]

Cleopatra II Octa Listening Impressions

I've been listening intensively over the last 7 days and have added some 20-30 hours onto the cable. It may not be fully burned-in yet, but I feel sufficiently comfortable describing its characteristics as they present themselves to me. (I hope that over the next 20-70 hours until full break-in, my perception won't change to the worse )

Appearance

The Cleopatra II Octa cable is massive, it dwarfs the P1 stock cable and even the also-8-wire VE Elysium cable:

Workmanship and choice of materials (including the hardware) is first grade.
Aesthetics is impeccable. I love how the different strand sizes resulting from EA’s dual geometric design are visible to the naked eye.
The cable is flexible and comfortable albeit a tiny bit microphonic.

Listening Impressions

I've been listening to Roon streams through my SP1000M into my Chord Mojo 2 and into my Vision Ears VE8, all files lossless, partly 16/44, partly high-res.

Most of my listening impressions below are based on comparisons with the Elysium cable.

The VE8 scale nicely with better sources and, as it turns out, with better cables.

The soundstage is noticeably bigger: wider and taller, with tons of space between instruments. Depth is also slightly increased. Layering is top notch. The cable's ability to project instruments and voices tangibly into space is truly stunning, instruments and voices have their own three-dimensional body with plausible size and are not just mere point sources.

Such extraordinary imaging ability, combined with headphones’ idiosyncratic property of making the soundstage sit more or less within the confines of one’s skull can lead to interesting moments. When Iarla Ó Lionáird starts singing at 00:10 into The Gloaming’s live version of Cucanandy (Live at the NCH), the first time I’ve heard this through the Cleo with my eyes closed, I had a very short brain-screw moment: My brain told me there is a physical person standing in the front part of my cranium!
I think part of this extraordinary imaging capability is due to the cable's resolving ability: I get subtle auditory cues such as early reflections and faint reverb tails that I don't get with my lesser cables. The result is this astounding feeling of actually being there.

When listening to Dr. Chesky's binaural headphone test tracks, the 3D sense of space is uncanny - I had to constantly resist the urge to open my eyes and look in the direction of the sound source. This is true both for width/depth as well as for the sense of height. With such binaural recordings, the soundstage actually spans way beyond the “head stage” and becomes real-world-plausible (something I’ve never been able to experience in full with my lesser cables).

The frequency response of the cable is without any (unpleasant) surprises - I don't think that this cable makes my VE8 sound either brighter or darker. There is just additional extension both with bass and treble, and certain areas like upper bass / lower mids appear tidier and better controlled. The VE8 have a rather warm sound signature with smooth, maybe even slightly recessed treble. With the Cleo, treble gets a tad hotter and on one specific occasion, when listening to The Jayhawks’ album Back Roads and Abandoned Motels, I felt treble was borderline grating (but I believe this to be an isolated case with this album specifically). Other than that, I felt that the additional top-end extension was very much a plus, opening up the VE8 to full potential.

To me, personally, the mid-range is the most crucial part. Harmonics of two acoustic guitars playing in unison can send shivers down my spine if captured well. With Cleo, things get better even. There is just more texture and more detail; left hand fingers releasing guitar strings or other “musical side events” like the pianist moving and his bench faintly creaking just sound so natural and so well embedded in the overall presentation – again, just as if I’m actually there.
What’s more, the cable unleashes more of Hugo’s energy into the VE8. There is an effortless flow of musical energy, rhythm, and dynamics. There is slam where slam is called for, and subtle dynamic nuances where delicate textures need to be carved out. Compared to my other cables, attacks of acoustic guitar strings have perceptively more immediate impact and energy while being entirely free from any unnatural edges or grain. Everything sounds wonderfully natural and organic.

Conclusion

I don't believe that cables can "add" anything and do things like "improving sound quality". But I think that with their physical properties, and by interacting with the source and the IEMs, cables eat away from the audio signal to different degrees and with different characteristics, thereby "imprinting" their character onto the audio signal. With Cleo, I feel that much less gets lost in transit than with my other cables and the character it imprints on the audio signal is that of a pleasingly full, organic, and lively sound with an effortless delivery of slam and impact, presented in an utterly realistic three-dimensional soundstage.

The result of it all is me just sitting there for hours on end, getting lost in music, with a blissful smile on my face.

 

[rosci]

Cleopatra II Octa - Price Considerations

I have separately posted my listening impressions related to Cleopatra II Octa. I love this cable. But there is an elephant in the room, plain to see. I would like to add a few thoughts about it here.

A couple years ago I couldn't imagine myself spending north of 1000 USD on a cable.
My sense of "price/value" told me that such a price can't be justified and therefore this isn't for me.

The Cleopatra II Octa retails at 1600 USD. I've bought one. What has changed?

In a different forum I've read a post which concluded with this statement:

"I am just as shocked as you by the price of some audio cables and wonder how the numbers can be justified, but ultimately it is the consumer that controls the show. If something of a particular worth exceeds your sense of value, ignore it, don't make the purchase. Value of all things is in the eye of the beholder. You vote with your wallet."

This was the response to a different post which tried to explain how cable cost adds up with elements such as R&D, marketing, distribution, material, manufacturing etc.

A different post in the same forum states: "For some manufacturers they charge as much as they feel they can get away with. To hell with all the overhead, material cost, formulas..." (sic).

In one of his fantastic vlogs, Paul McGowan from PS Audio gives an explanation with a similar essence. Essentially, I understood that when determining the aspired retail price for, say, a pair of high end speakers, this is less a matter of "calculating all the cost that leads to the product and then adding a margin" than it is a consideration of how much perceived value can be projected (also compared to other products on the market and also considering price tolerance of the target audience). I've read statements to a similar effect from Audeze's Sankar Thiagasamudram and others.

So, without actually knowing it and really just speculating here, I believe that 1600 USD for the Cleo-2-8 may not be the result of simply "summing up cost and adding a margin" but much more a deliberation of "how much can we get away with", considering the product's performance (and the target audience's price tolerance ).

So, why do we buy it?

I used to have a Chord Mojo. At some point I've upgraded to a Chord Hugo 2. The price difference between these two devices was around 1600 USD. The same as the Cleo-2-8. When testing Hugo 2, I've concluded that the improvement in sound quality (and the degree I enjoy listening to music) justifies the cost for me.

I have now learned that a chain that is otherwise already performing on a high level can be additionally improved, to a comparable extent, by using a top notch cable: I believe the upgrade in sound quality (and the added joy when listening to music) by swapping my previous IEM cables with a Cleo-2-8 is actually comparable with the one I've perceived when upgrading from Mojo to Hugo 2 - at a similar price point.

On the face of it, 1600 USD is a lot of money for a cable.

But the fact that companies like Effect Audio are taking the enterpreneurial risk of developing high-end products like this, catering for a presumably rather small market, and thereby pushing the envelope of what's technically feasible, is just amazing. The fact that such cables exist, and the auditory bliss we can gain from using them, is fantastic.

So, in the end, I do believe this is a matter of perceived value.

And to all those who think that cables are overpriced, I say: "If this isn't for you, then just ignore it."

[Of course this is just my personal view. Your opinion may differ and your mileage may vary. I do not mean to come across as a snob here - I am just trying to tell about my own personal journey of how I've ended up buying an expensive cable.]